Helpful ReplyStarting points, newbie

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kristoffer
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2014/12/03 04:27:26 (permalink)

Starting points, newbie

To start with: I have so far only used my DAW for recording ideas and thoughts. So my recording/"sound engineering" technique is completely absent.  
But, I want to learn :) 
So I thought the best way, is to get input. Details that I don't hear or think of, because I have no clue for what to aim for 
 
So yesterday I just jammed with some drums, bass, a guitar and a rhodes (very simplistic). Besides the drums everything is recorded in one take, so bear over with me on that :) 
 
Afterwards I tried some of the prochannel presets on each track, and took the one I thought sounded best.
Track 1, Bass: Fender jazzbass through Pod HD500 
Track 2, Guitar: Line6 JTV through POD HD500
Track 3, Drums: Komplete studio drums with a midi loop - 
Track 4, Rhodes: Addictive Keys Mark 73, added a bit of reverb with prochannel "Breverb"
The master channel has a slight "master compression" from the prochannel presets. 
 
All is recorded through Tascam FW1884 and my montors are Adam Artist 5. 
 So, I exported to wav and put out to Soundcloud
 
My thoughts for learing now is to listen to it on different systems, like a computer, phone, car and home systems.
But - what to listen for? :) 
I also suspect the master volume to be a bit low? 
 
 
So: please have a listen and make a list of what you would do with the different tracks. 
I can also share the actual sonar project if someone wants to do examples for what to do.
 
 

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re: Starting points, newbie 2014/12/03 08:35:50 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby kristoffer 2014/12/03 13:41:20
    AS it progressed, it started to get a nice groove going.
     
    From the mix standpoint, everything is very clear, clean and upfront. All of that is good. Perhaps a tad on the dry side..... needs a touch of reverb to get it a bit "out of your face" in a manner of speaking. Give it some room.
     
    I like to use a light reverb on my master bus to smooth things out and give the entire mix some cohesion and room..... often the tracks are totally dry. I use reverb on the guitar and that is internal to the amp or the POD. In other words, I get the guitar sounding right before I record it.
     
    The best way to get a decent handle on how to engineer a mix is to do exactly what you did there... record a project and post it for crits. See what others think. Weigh the comments and incorporate them as you determine them to be useful or not.  Using the songs forum here has really been a useful tool when I was first getting started in this thing called home recording. People here have good ears and will provide much useful information to you regarding what they hear or don't hear in your mixes. By listening to them and following the advice given, I believe I avoided years and years of spinning my wheels trying to figure certain things out on my own.  In addition to the crits on my own songs, listen to the music of others, and read the comments. You will learn things that way too.....and by all means, chime in on the comments and ask questions if you don't know something or understand clearly.
     
    As far as mixing to a specific speaker system.... car, home stereo, iPod, computer speakers, etc..... simply go for a balanced mix on some fairly accurate studio reference speakers that you know well and understand what their strengths and weaknesses are.  A well balanced mix will sound good across a multitude of different speakers with very little to no adjustments needed by the end listener.   Your studio speakers do not have to be the best or most expensive ones on the market. The Artist 5 by Adams looks to be a fairly decent home studio speaker.  I mix on some Mackie MR-5 studio speakers with 5" cones and a 10" sub on the floor. I like the sub since it lets me clearly hear the bottom end of the mix.   The most important part if the equation is understanding and knowing the speakers you use. 
     
    My 2 cents worth.....

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    AT
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    Re: Starting points, newbie 2014/12/03 10:10:22 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby kristoffer 2014/12/03 13:41:14
    Nice groove.  And good project to mix since it is simple.
     
    Things to listen for if your are starting out:
     
    Balance (and I don't mean pan).  In this one the guitar seems a bit overbearing.  If you are a guitarist this is understandable but something you have to be careful with.  You are used to hearing the guitar more than anything else, so.  I don't know what the Pod is doing, but a little (more) compression on the track will help it sit more evenly w/in the mix, so it doesn't pop out so much.  Same w/ the bass.  In a mix this sparse you probably don't need to carve out frequencies so that the instrumentation is clear.  There is plenty of clarity here.   
     
    More drums - it is the modern method of mixing, even in a jazz ensemble.  Maybe some high eq to bring out the cymbal some - just like I hear in a jazz club.  Then I'd set up a send w/ reverb (Breverb is an excellent one) w/ a room or plate and send some drum to it.
     
    More rhodes - and send it to the reverb too.  Even if it is louder, the reverb tends to make it seem farther back.
     
    Of course, this is just the way I hear it going down and this ain't my style of music.  Part of the fun of recording/mixing music is making the music sound the way you hear it in your head.  The those suggestions above are techniques, which get applied across styles and tastes.
     
    As guitar says above, record some stuff, esp. simple stuff, and post it in the song forums telling people you are looking more for comments on mixing rather than the song itself.
     
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    dcumpian
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    Re: Starting points, newbie 2014/12/03 14:51:23 (permalink)
    Also, when you listen to your mix on other systems, listen to commercial recordings before and after and try to hear what is different, particularly things like overall EQ curve and bass/drum presence. It helps you know what you are missing.
     
    Regards,
    Dan
     

    Mixing is all about control.
     
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    bitflipper
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    Re: Starting points, newbie 2014/12/03 14:55:53 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby bodhi65 2014/12/06 16:47:31
    The hardest part to explain is what to listen for, what's known as "critical listening". I don't know any shortcuts to acquiring or accelerating that skill other than practice, practice, practice. But trust me, it's a skill that naturally develops over time as you listen closely and gradually figure out what needs to be added or taken away.
     
    Mixing involves so many possibilities it's mind-boggling, so concentrate on the fundamentals to start. It comes down to primarily three things: balance, clarity and separation. It's not about effects. It's about carving out a space for each element using volume, pan and equalization so that every part is distinct, every part contributes something unique to the whole, and that the listener's ear is always drawn to the most-important element.
     
    As a starting point, leave out all effects and just concentrate on relative volumes. Next, experiment with panning. Panning is the most fundamental way to separate elements and the most critical skill in mixing, IMO. Third step, introduce EQs with the specific goal of removing frequencies that conflict with other instruments. Just use a single high-pass filter to start, slowly raising the cutoff frequency of different tracks until you hear an improvement in overall clarity, with less "mud".
     
    The fourth step is conquering compression, and that's a biggie. Expect to devote a lot of time to that one. But a good engineer can make a great mix using only balance, pan and EQ and nothing else, so those are the things you want to practice first.
     
    It's just like learning to play a musical instrument: it takes a lot of repetition. I think learning to mix well takes just as long as learning to play guitar, piano or drums well. Remind yourself of that when the inevitable frustration kicks in.


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    kristoffer
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    Re: Starting points, newbie 2014/12/03 16:57:50 (permalink)
    Thanks folks :) 
    I havent though of it as bitflipper says, but if I should use just as much time on engineering as I did in my youth playing guitar I lack a few thousand hours! 
    (the main problem that is 20 years ago... and I havent kept up ) 
     
    I'll see if I can make a song out of anything then, and publish it in "songs" 

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