witch_wyzwurd
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Step Sequencer - Splitting Drum Parts
Beware...my terminology isnt probably up to par.... I've programmed a whole song's drum part into step sequencer using SI drums by clicking the squares in the step sequencer. No external module. When I pull up a step sequencer clip I see all the rows of the drums, all in one track. Now I want to control each type of drum separately, each drum in its own separate track. What's the fastest way to do this. Is there some type of auto-split which kicks each step sequencer row in to its own track? I want to equalize and compress each drum separately is my purpose. Please advise, Thank You
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tlw
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Re: Step Sequencer - Splitting Drum Parts
2014/07/13 08:29:16
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Most drum VSTi modules have multiple outputs available which can be used to send each drum or a group of drums to seperate audio tracks. Far simpler than splitting the MIDI.
It can be done by splitting the MIDI by assigning each drum to a different MIDI channel in the step sequencer then loading as many instances of the drum VSTi, each receiving on a different channel, as it takes to put each drum on its own audio track but using the synth/sampler's ability to send to multiple audiotracks is far simpler and much lighter on PC resources.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Step Sequencer - Splitting Drum Parts
2014/07/13 10:11:48
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EDITED - Please ignore my post below - I had not realized that the OP had mentioned SI-Drums, which cannot do what I have recommended below. Sorry for any confusion - Bob Bone There is a CAL script that splits each drum note from a clip into its own track, HOWEVER, someone recently posted a comment about a problem with timing or something like that. I have not gone back to verify that to be an actual problem in the script - but thought I should mention it. I do not actually recommend splitting each drum's midi note out into a separate track. I recommend that you route each drum synth kit piece to its own audio outputs, which then get routed to a whole bunch of audio tracks in Sonar, and multiple drum buses. EDITED: I just saw something in the other post above that I do not do in what I am typing here. I do NOT use multiple midi channels in any way for splitting drums per what I post below. There is no need. I simply take advantage of most drum synth's ability to route kit pieces to separate audio outputs, combine that with Sonar audio tracks, and buses, all with a single midi track and single midi channel (10). Here's why: 1. Editing a drum roll becomes a nightmare, if you have to open up a different midi track for each tom tom or cymbal used in the roll/fill. I just don't think it is practical. 2. I think routing each kit piece to its own audio output from the drum synth, then routed to its own Sonar audio track makes much more sense, as you then have total sonic control over each kit piece, for volume, panning, and effects, while retaining the simplicity of editing in a single midi track. I start with some drum kit in Battery 3 from its library, fix up whatever cells I wish to, and then change the output of each desired cell to go to its own audio output channels. Kick goes to channels 1/2, snare to 3/4, etc. Then, I save that kit for later use in other projects, and then I create a 'Drums' track folder. In that folder I insert a single midi track, and a bunch of audio tracks, and route each of those audio tracks back to the multiple outputs from Battery 3, so that in the end, each kit piece from tge Battery 3 kit has its own Sonar stereo audio track. THEN, I set up a series of buses, one for Toms, Snare, Kick, Cymbals, Overheads, and Room, and a Drums Main bus that all of the sub-buses feed. I change the output routing for each kit piece to go to the appropriate sub-bus, and this way I can either control individual sonic aspects of a particular kit piece, or can do the same for a whole group of kit pieces, such as Toms, or can do the same for the whole kit itself. You also group common effects for common kit pieces, in the process, etc. Once I set up the above, I highlight and save it all off as a Track Template, so that if another later project needs the same kit, well, all of the work will have been done already, and with a couple of mouse clicks, I can pull in a fully optimized drum kit, audio tracks for each kit piece, and buses tailored for that particular kit. It is a REALLY REALLY quick and powerful way to work with drum setup and use. I hope I have explained the above sufficiently, give it a shot and you may decide you like it. Bob Bone
post edited by robert_e_bone - 2014/07/13 10:37:23
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scook
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Re: Step Sequencer - Splitting Drum Parts
2014/07/13 10:18:03
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robert_e_bone I recommend that you route each drum synth kit piece to its own audio outputs, which then get routed to a whole bunch of audio tracks in Sonar, and multiple drum buses.
This cannot be done with a single instance of SI Drum Kit. The only way to break out the audio for each instrument in SI Drum Kit is create a separate instance of the plug-in for each instrument.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Step Sequencer - Splitting Drum Parts
2014/07/13 10:44:15
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Thanks, scook - I missed that. Off for more coffee, maybe that will open the eyes wider than the James Franco look I have going so far this morning. :) Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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scook
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Re: Step Sequencer - Splitting Drum Parts
2014/07/13 11:16:22
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The "Split Note To Tracks" CAL will break out the step sequencer rows to individual MIDI track but the CAL script will not work on instrument tracks. If this is an instrument track, the first step would be to split the track into an audio and MIDI track by right-clicking on the track header and select "Split Instrument Track". Then run the script on the MIDI track. The script will prompt for the MIDI track to split and the next unused track number to create for the MIDI tracks. Click through the rest of the prompts. Until you are comfortable with the script work with a copy of the original MIDI track.
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tlw
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Re: Step Sequencer - Splitting Drum Parts
2014/07/13 19:54:18
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Hm. An idea. If SI drums doesn't make multiple outputs available (like Bob, my preferred way of working is to use one MIDI track and split the individual drums to audio tracks using multiple synth outputs), then how about this. Create the MIDI track in step sequencer/piano roll view. Don't worry about eq, compression etc. at this point. Mute everything but the kick drum, then bounce the synth to a track. That will output a kick-only track. Then mute the kick, unmute the snare and repeat. Continue untill all drums (or groups if you decide to e.g. keep the toms on one track) are bounced to their own audio track. A bit messy, but it will get the job done and without needing to load a seperate instance of SI drums for each individual drum. If you do split the MIDI, the PRV lets you view or edit the contents of several MIDI tracks at once. It's probably the beer tool than the step sequencer if you want natural "human" sounding drums as well because it's far more flexible than the step sequencer (and can cope with inserting triplets into 4/4, slight timing tweaks per individual note and similar stuff, which the step sequencer can't).
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witch_wyzwurd
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Re: Step Sequencer - Splitting Drum Parts
2014/07/13 23:36:48
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Scook: I followed your instructions but plz advise on the following... 1. Source Track: I'm assuming to be track# of midi file for SI drums? 2. First Destination Track: I'm assuming to be "new track" or unused track number not created yet? 3. Destination Channel: What's that? 4. Destination Port: Whats that? I simply have 2 vocal tracks, 2 guitar tracks, 1 bass guitar track, and the SI drum track. The only midi is the SI drum track. What do I do with Destination Channel and Destination Port? I did just click thru the Destination Port and Channel options leaving the base value in and all the tracks popped up with each instrument separate but when I pushed play the timeline stopped right before the new tracks and froze. And then I couldnt do anything else. Before I posted on this site I just tried copying and pasting each drum part into a new track but everytime I pushed play I got a fatal error message and the program had to be shut down. I tried like 3 or 4 times with the same result. I use X1 and didnt have a problem using the copy/paste method in older versions. Any ideas?
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witch_wyzwurd
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Re: Step Sequencer - Splitting Drum Parts
2014/07/13 23:41:26
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TLW: I'm assuming when you say "mute" you mean to push the piano key of the drum I want so only it's selected and then bounce to track? I don't see an option to mute anything in PRV and trying to mute all the drums in StepSequencer will take forever because they're broken into many clips throughout song and when I try to bounce to clip all of the clips I no longer can right-click and go into Step Sequencer. I selected the bass drum part and tried bouncing to track but it says no audio date selected. I've also tried just the copy/paste method into a new track but everytime I push play I get a fatal error message for the program and the program has to be shut down. Any ideas?
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scook
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Re: Step Sequencer - Splitting Drum Parts
2014/07/14 00:02:25
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Would have been helpful to mention X1 originally. I would have used it to test. Before running the CAL script, select the MIDI track and from the Clips menu on the track view run "Bounce to Clip(s)". Now the questions: 1. yes 2. yes 3. not needed, take default value 4. not needed, take default value
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witch_wyzwurd
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Re: Step Sequencer - Splitting Drum Parts
2014/07/14 01:17:30
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Scook: Thanks for the update. I tried exactly what you said but when I Bounce to Clips the clips merge but then the program shows "Not Responding" in the top bar. I can still run thru the CAL popups and the separate drum tracks are created but when I push play I hear no sound and the program starts goofing up. I closed out and reopened and tried a few times but same result. It seems whenever I'm trying to move parts or the whole drum track all I get is program errors. I completely dont understand this because I didnt have this prob before when I would use older versions. I'm using Microsoft Vista also. But I meet all requirements, plus I have more.
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witch_wyzwurd
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Re: Step Sequencer - Splitting Drum Parts
2014/07/14 01:17:37
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Scook: Thanks for the update. I tried exactly what you said but when I Bounce to Clips the clips merge but then the program shows "Not Responding" in the top bar. I can still run thru the CAL popups and the separate drum tracks are created but when I push play I hear no sound and the program starts goofing up. I closed out and reopened and tried a few times but same result. It seems whenever I'm trying to move parts or the whole drum track all I get is program errors. I completely dont understand this because I didnt have this prob before when I would use older versions. I'm using Microsoft Vista also. But I meet all requirements, plus I have more.
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scook
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Re: Step Sequencer - Splitting Drum Parts
2014/07/14 01:23:04
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I doubt it is an OS issue. It may be a project specific issue. May want to try the process in a new project.
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Grem
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Re: Step Sequencer - Splitting Drum Parts
2014/07/14 04:29:16
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scook
It may be a project specific issue.
I was thinking the same thing
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Step Sequencer - Splitting Drum Parts
2014/07/14 10:54:58
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Wouldn't using the muting technique result in just the audio being split off, one note to a track? I would think he would want to retain the midi data, and have THAT split off to the different tracks, with each midi track assigned to output to SI-Drums. Or, maybe I am missing something. Bob Bone
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tlw
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Re: Step Sequencer - Splitting Drum Parts
2014/07/14 11:59:49
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Bob- Original post says this is to split the drums into individual tracks to allow compressing/eqing each drum individually. Unless I'm missing something, you can't eq or compress anything in MIDI, only by audio processing.
David -
Yes, mute the drum in the drum synth.
You can also mute a step sequencer row across multiple step sequence clips. Select all the clips then click on the mute (M) button in the row you want to mute and it should then mute the same row in all the selected clips. At least, I've just checked in X3, it works there and as far as I can remember X1worked in the same way.
To mute notes in the piano roll view you select the notes then press T to bring up the tool box. The icon on the right (which is meant to be a scalpel) has two right-mouse click options, erase or mute. Select mute (the toolbox icon changes to an M) then left click on any of the selected notes and they will ghost out and be muted. Another left click unmutes them. A quick way to select a particular note/drum for the length of a song or a desired time period is to bring up the PRV and zoom out horizontally until all the area you need to mute is visible. Then zoom in vertically in the PRV until the notes are big enough to distinguish then select etc. as usual.
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scook
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Re: Step Sequencer - Splitting Drum Parts
2014/07/14 12:16:26
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I did not even get down to that part of the post. Breaking out the MIDI is not going to provide an EQ opportunity. Dynamics could be controlled with MIDI but it may be easier using the audio tracks. Since I prefer to bounce to audio late in a project and given how small the project is, I might be tempted to create a drum map and several instances SI Drums.
post edited by scook - 2014/07/14 12:30:38
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Step Sequencer - Splitting Drum Parts
2014/07/14 12:23:10
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I am an idiot at times. I only looked at the request for splitting the midi out, without regard to the 'why' he was wanting to do that. Please ignore any post I have made above, and I will go off and have a nice long chat with my brain about reading ALL the way through posts prior to responding. :) I also have been using Battery 3 for so long, that I keep losing the concept that SI-Drums cannot apparently assign each cell to its own audio output, so anything I posted thus far is a giant waste of time. Don't get old - it's a plummet, Bob Bone
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witch_wyzwurd
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Re: Step Sequencer - Splitting Drum Parts
2014/07/14 22:55:33
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TLW: I highlight all the clips on my drum track in Step Sequencer but the only row that gets actually muted when I mute that row even before I bounce to track is in one clip only, the clip I right click on to View>> Step Sequencer. So when I bounce to tracks all off the rest of the rows in every other clip is unmuted and therefore I get the full drum track. For the PRV, you say to select the notes. you mean hit the piano key to highlight that row of notes? I hit the piano keys by keeping ctrl down to select multiple rows, pushed "t", right clicked on "scalpel", selected mute, button turns into an "m", but nothing ghosts out if I click left mouse button on piano key or notes. When I play back the track the drum sound still occurs telling me it's not muted. In fact, below my arrow-cursor is a circl w/ a line thru it, like the classic "no symbol" when I'm inside the PRV although not on the piano keys themselves. Any further help is appreciated.
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tlw
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Re: Step Sequencer - Splitting Drum Parts
2014/07/15 10:53:07
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robert_e_bone I am an idiot at times. Don't worry, I can be an idiot most of the time. It seems to come naturally to me, one of my strongest talents in fact. robert_e_boneso anything I posted thus far is a giant waste of time. Passing on information is never a waste of time. If not immediately relevant it's bound to come in useful for someone sometime.
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tlw
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Re: Step Sequencer - Splitting Drum Parts
2014/07/15 11:00:22
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David-
My preferred method for selecting notes in the PRV is to use the mouse to lasso the blobs in the track. There are other ways, but that's the way I do it.
Yes, you do get that circle-with-a-line through it icon with the mute tool. When you hover the pointer in the right place over a MIDI note's "blob" (not the keyboard to the left, the actual note blob itself) it changes and you can then click on the note which should mute all currently selected notes.
As for the step sequencer, all I can say is that when I select a bunch of SS clips in track view and open the SS by right-clicking on one of them and selecting view/step sequencer, muting a row in the SS view that pops up mutes the same row in all the clips. At least, I crwated half a dozen clips and tried it and it worked.
To be honest though the best way to get what you want is to use the internal mixer in the drum synth/sampler to mute all but one drum, bounce it to a track and repeat as necessary. I haven't got SI drums installed though, so I can't confirm if that's possible or not.
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witch_wyzwurd
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Re: Step Sequencer - Splitting Drum Parts
2014/07/16 19:52:57
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I tried using your technique again. No matter what I tried I didnt get any other symbol then the "no symbol" and wasn't able to mute any notes. I think I tried everything. I increased the size of the squares all the way up but no luck. Why is this working for you and not me? The only option I thought of was to highlight the drums I didnt want...push delete...bounce drums leftover to audio track...copy/past audio track in "drumdump" file for storage...undo my steps in original file to get back the drums I deleted....then copy and paste drum audio from "drumdump" file back into original file. Whole lotta work for what seems like it should be easy. I'm not really sure what the "split track" option does. When I do that I get a new track that is just open space...not even silence. When I insert SI-DRUM the only box checked is "Simple Instrument" in the left-hand column. Is this causing some issue?
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Step Sequencer - Splitting Drum Parts
2014/07/16 20:01:02
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Would it work do event filter out all but one drum note at a time and get that to its own track? Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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witch_wyzwurd
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Re: Step Sequencer - Splitting Drum Parts
2014/07/17 21:23:06
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I fig out a way to make it happen. edit >> filter >> select note i want to bounce and then bounce that note/drum to its own track. and do that for every drum
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Cactus Music
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Re: Step Sequencer - Splitting Drum Parts
2014/07/17 22:47:26
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O,
post edited by Cactus Music - 2014/07/22 00:20:09
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tlw
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Re: Step Sequencer - Splitting Drum Parts
2014/07/18 13:26:01
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david.mivshek.music I tried using your technique again. No matter what I tried I didnt get any other symbol then the "no symbol" and wasn't able to mute any notes. Sorry, my fault for not explaining properly and I accidentally missed a step out. Before the piano roll view can edit a step sequencer clip the clip first has to be bounced to an "ordinary" MIDI clip. To do this select the clip in track view, right click and choose "bounce to clip" from the menu. Open in the PRV view and you can now edit the MIDI. The thing hat looks like it might be a "stop" or "not possible" symbol is actually the icon showing you've the mute tool selected. Yes, it's confusing. I can only assume there's a reason why the PRV can't directly edit step sequrncer clips. My guess is that the step sequuncer's designed-in limitations are the reason for this.
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