Step Sequencer - representing a time signature of 21/8 - how do I do that?

Howdy all.  I have a song that is predominantly in 7/4, and I have no issues properly representing that in the Step Sequencer.  There is a section of the song with a meter change, changing to 21/8, and I have not been able to figure out how to properly set that up in Step Sequencer to allow me to have the entered notes play back properly.

Please someone help me understand how to achieve this.  THANKS!!!!

Does the 21/8 fit in the space of 7/4?  i.e. is the feel one of triplets?  If so, you can use fit to quarters and set that to 7.

I'm sure it's possible to resolve what appears to be a 21 bar measure into smaller increments.

7 being the most obvious of all..........

robert_e_bone


Howdy all.  I have a song that is predominantly in 7/4, and I have no issues properly representing that in the Step Sequencer.  There is a section of the song with a meter change, changing to 21/8, and I have not been able to figure out how to properly set that up in Step Sequencer to allow me to have the entered notes play back properly.

Please someone help me understand how to achieve this.  THANKS!!!!

How about 21 measures @ 1/8?

Well, I'll try the subdivisions per the above, but I still need to figure out how to do weird time signatures.  I do a lot of progressive rock, and for me to plug in the notes, taken from transcriptions, I want to remain faithful to how it is properly represented in those transcriptions.  In addition, I have other tunes that have meters like 19/16 (Bill Bruford).

So, I want to figure out how to do this with the step sequencer for multiple situations.  This is why I tossed this thread out there, in case someone else had done anything similar.

Thanks for all the ideas - hoping for one that really can do it as 21/8.

Bob Bone

It appears to me that the Step Sequencer is hard-wired to have a quarter note as the beat, despite my having had a previously inserted meter change to 21/8.  If I set it to 21 beats in Step Sequencer, it creates a measure that is 21 quarter notes long.

I think it will as it is currently designed, doing this with Step Sequencer will force me to set a single measure as 21 quarter notes, and to have it play properly I would then have to insert a tempo change to double the tempo, so that the ridiculously fast quarters sound like they are eighth-notes.  That is pretty cheesy to have to do for a top-end product such as Sonar X1.

I could do the above as 3 measures of 7/4 with a doubling of tempo, either does the same thing, but I'd really like to do it as 21/8 without having to double the tempo as described above.

I do not believe I can implement any other solution per current Step Sequencer design.

Bakers, I believe it makes perfect sense from a musical sense to expect that measures built in the Step Sequencer should use the beat as present in that measure's time signature.  Please consider this.  

Keith, the 7/4 time signature works - but only with a doubling of the tempo.  My original tempo is already 155, and I don't even yet know if X1 allows a tempo specification of 310 bpm.

If on the other hand I am missing something in my understanding of how things work in the Step Sequencer, please help me to understand.

Bob Bone

I've used tempos up to 350 bpm. (I just tested and it looks like SONAR maxes out at 999 bpm). I agree with Jonesy - the limitation isn't so much SONAR as it is the step sequencer, but in fairness to Cake, they built the step sequencer on a hardware paradigm. I wouldn't hesitate to do whatever it takes to make the tool fit what you need to do. (But then I wouldn't hesitate to use a screwdriver for a chisel. LOL).


Edit - I see you did your own little Science Experiment also.

robert_e_bone


I just finished incorporating a work-around as I had described above - I set up the measure as 21/4, with an inserted tempo change from 155 to 310 bpm, so that the quarter notes would sound as eighth-notes - as per the written music.

I do not have any tempo-based effects running, and am wondering what would have happened to any of that sort of thing when they encountered a doubling of the tempo.

Anyways - Bakers, please give some consideration to addressing this issue.

Thanks

Funny you mentioned the tempo based effects. As I was reading the thread that is what I was thinking would have a real problem. I think the tempo change would just destroy the coherence of a tempo based delay for example. My Eventide Time Factor syncs up to midi clock and it would just be strange to have two measures where all of a sudden it goes bananas.


Just my two cents....


Ken