Sam4246
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Step sequencer - the triplet question yet again!
SPLAT, HP Envy 7. I have used the step sequencer with Addictive Drums 2 and became pretty good at it.
I write out all of my music including the drum notation.
I have a fill on a Tom that includes three 8th note triplets on beat 1.
The pattern is standard 4/4 meter signature and is four measures long.
So, the "beat" part is 16.
Here are my questions:
1. What do I change the "step" number to? 6?
2. Once I get the step number correct, which boxes do I click on for the three 8th note triplets on beat one? (If it is 6 then would that be the first box, the third box, and the fifth box)?
3. Once I get the triplets correct, if I change the steps back to 4 for the remainder of the pattern will the triplets still be there? (The rest of the pattern does not have any triplets, just beat 1).
Most of my posts, I am not at my PC when I create them - sorry guys - I seem to think of Sonar questions when I am at work.
Thanks,
Al
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brundlefly
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Re: Step sequencer - the triplet question yet again!
2016/12/07 17:44:59
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Yes 6 steps would allow you to have both 8ths (steps 1 and 4) and 8th triplets (steps 1, 3, 5). But if you need to have any 16ths, you would need 12 steps per beat, and obviously that gets difficult to work with. In that case, it would be better to make a 1-beat pattern in another lane for the 8th triplets.
I'm not sure how the pattern will change when you change the number of steps after the fact, but I'm pretty sure the triplets won't be preserved. You'd have to convert to a regular MIDI clip and then re-convert to a 2- or 4-step SS clip and check to preserve timing offsets.
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craigr68
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Re: Step sequencer - the triplet question yet again!
2016/12/07 17:52:51
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I'll take a stab at this. I hope I'm understanding you correctly. I had a situation where I wanted a tom 6/8 triplet fill over an already existing 4/4 step sequence. I couldn't figure out any way to alter the 4/4 sequence to 6/8 and not mess up my 4/4 beat. So what I did, I opened up a 2nd track lane, created another step sequence, made it 6/8, and created my fill. But then I had another problem where the 2 sequences couldn't coexist in the same time frame as the first sequence. Then scook answered my post how to do that. He said "Change Preferences > Customization > Editing Drag and Drop setting to "Blend Old and New". Then I could slide the 2 sequence clips be in the same time frame, basically overlapping one another. Of course I probably could have gotten around that problem by creating separate midi tracks but that just seemed messy. I'd sure like to know if there's a better way where you could combine them all into one sequence, but I kind of doubt that's possible cuz you can only have one time signature for a particular step sequence clip, not two.
On your line 2 question, I think it would be 1,3,5 boxes. I would just create a separate 6/8 sequence, see if it sounds right, and alter as necessary - maybe it should be 2,4,6 - depends what you want it to sound like.
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Sam4246
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Re: Step sequencer - the triplet question yet again!
2016/12/07 19:08:42
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Thanks for the help. I have read similar triplet questions before on the forum. I wish I could use my DR-660 drum machine to program the beats into Sonar because I have that drum machine down so well and can program beats very quickly on it. It's not a MIDI controller (just can do master/slave). Plus, I know just enough about MIDI to be dangerous.
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tlw
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Re: Step sequencer - the triplet question yet again!
2016/12/07 23:47:15
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Could the DR-660's lack of MIDI be sidestepped by programming the sequence into the DR-660, recording the resulting audio then using the drum replacer to change the sounds if required?
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Sam4246
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Re: Step sequencer - the triplet question yet again!
2016/12/08 08:57:26
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tlw
Could the DR-660's lack of MIDI be sidestepped by programming the sequence into the DR-660, recording the resulting audio then using the drum replacer to change the sounds if required?
I could do that but the dilemma is the DR-660 has 4 outputs - thus keeping each drum on it's own track is possible, just would take a lot of time to do. It's still a good drum machine though. I have not used tye drum replacer yet. So far, Addictive Drums 2 has been pretty good to use.
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Sam4246
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Re: Step sequencer - the triplet question yet again!
2016/12/08 09:02:07
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I kind of cheated to get the triplets to work. Luckily enough, my handwritten score with the drum notation, did not have any other drums playing at the same time as the triplets. So, I made one pattern with the triplets on beat 1 (with only one beat and one step). Then the next pattern I made right after it with 3 beats and the rest of the drums. Together the two patterns would be 4 beats.
But that blend old and new that craigr68 posted - definitely going to use that in the future.
Al
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Sam4246
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Re: Step sequencer - the triplet question yet again!
2016/12/12 11:21:12
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craigr68
I'll take a stab at this. I hope I'm understanding you correctly. I had a situation where I wanted a tom 6/8 triplet fill over an already existing 4/4 step sequence. I couldn't figure out any way to alter the 4/4 sequence to 6/8 and not mess up my 4/4 beat. So what I did, I opened up a 2nd track lane, created another step sequence, made it 6/8, and created my fill. But then I had another problem where the 2 sequences couldn't coexist in the same time frame as the first sequence. Then scook answered my post how to do that. He said "Change Preferences > Customization > Editing Drag and Drop setting to "Blend Old and New". Then I could slide the 2 sequence clips be in the same time frame, basically overlapping one another. Of course I probably could have gotten around that problem by creating separate midi tracks but that just seemed messy. I'd sure like to know if there's a better way where you could combine them all into one sequence, but I kind of doubt that's possible cuz you can only have one time signature for a particular step sequence clip, not two.
On your line 2 question, I think it would be 1,3,5 boxes. I would just create a separate 6/8 sequence, see if it sounds right, and alter as necessary - maybe it should be 2,4,6 - depends what you want it to sound like.
Here is another question for you: What if I programmed the 4/4 beat into the step sequencer. Then changed the Step number from 4 to 6. Then clicked on the 1,3,5 steps to get the triplets? Shouldn't that work too?
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brundlefly
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Re: Step sequencer - the triplet question yet again!
2016/12/12 20:17:31
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I speculated in my first response that this probably wouldn't work. I just tried it and verified the 4/4 steps don't retain their timing when you change the steps/beat. They retain the step number so the 7th step in a 6-step pattern that was the downbeat on 2:01:000 is now at 2:03:000 in the 4-step pattern.
I still think just adding a 1-measure, 6-step pattern in another lane is the way to go. Or just work in the PRV where there are no limitations on note placement.
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Sam4246
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Re: Step sequencer - the triplet question yet again!
2016/12/13 11:33:37
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brundlefly
I speculated in my first response that this probably wouldn't work. I just tried it and verified the 4/4 steps don't retain their timing when you change the steps/beat. They retain the step number so the 7th step in a 6-step pattern that was the downbeat on 2:01:000 is now at 2:03:000 in the 4-step pattern.
I still think just adding a 1-measure, 6-step pattern in another lane is the way to go. Or just work in the PRV where there are no limitations on note placement.
When you say another lane - do I open another Addictive Drums 2 on another track? Or would it be two midi tracks with on AD 2 synth? All I have done so far is have one midi track for AD 2 and I was not aware you could have another lane - like take lanes?
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Sam4246
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Re: Step sequencer - the triplet question yet again!
2016/12/13 11:33:38
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brundlefly
I speculated in my first response that this probably wouldn't work. I just tried it and verified the 4/4 steps don't retain their timing when you change the steps/beat. They retain the step number so the 7th step in a 6-step pattern that was the downbeat on 2:01:000 is now at 2:03:000 in the 4-step pattern.
I still think just adding a 1-measure, 6-step pattern in another lane is the way to go. Or just work in the PRV where there are no limitations on note placement.
When you say another lane - do I open another Addictive Drums 2 on another track? Or would it be two midi tracks with on AD 2 synth? All I have done so far is have one midi track for AD 2 and I was not aware you could have another lane - like take lanes?
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brundlefly
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Re: Step sequencer - the triplet question yet again!
2016/12/13 12:02:55
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A track can have multiple lanes of MIDI (or audio) data running in parallel. Shift+T will show lanes on the focused track. Click the + button in T1 to add a new lane.
I'm not in front of my DAW now so not 100% sure about how to start a new SS clip in a specific lane, but I think if you make sure the new lane has focus, and click the Step Sequencer button in the AD2 properties window you'll get a new SS clip in the new lane.
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Sam4246
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Re: Step sequencer - the triplet question yet again!
2016/12/13 12:28:54
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brundlefly
A track can have multiple lanes of MIDI (or audio) data running in parallel. Shift+T will show lanes on the focused track. Click the + button in T1 to add a new lane.
I'm not in front of my DAW now so not 100% sure about how to start a new SS clip in a specific lane, but I think if you make sure the new lane has focus, and click the Step Sequencer button in the AD2 properties window you'll get a new SS clip in the new lane.
Yeah, I am not in front of my DAW either. As soon as I hit reply, I thought, Al you dummy, it's like take lanes. D'oh - Homer Simpson moment. Just make the take lane MIDI instead of audio. Got it! Conquering triplets one step at a time. Ha! Ha! Al
post edited by Sam4246 - 2016/12/13 14:25:20
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craigr68
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Re: Step sequencer - the triplet question yet again!
2016/12/13 17:14:38
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If you stack track lanes, don't forget to set this. Otherwise you'll probably have problems with stacking the take lanes over top of each other.
Change Preferences > Customization > Editing Drag and Drop setting to "Blend Old and New"
I've been changing my drum tactics for a while now. I go into AD and tweak the drum set the way I want with direct audio outs. Back in track view, I'll create a Drum folder and insert AD direct out audio tracks for Kick, Snare, Tom1, Tom2, and so on. I'll put effects, usually reverb & compressor, in the effects bin or prochannel for each if desired. Then I'll put a midi track below that to trigger the AD drums. I set my Drum Map so that when I open Step Sequencer and add drums to it, the drum names are retrieved from the drum map. All that can be saved as a template for future use.
Then, under the midi track I create a step sequencer clip as 4/4 or 6/8. I add drums to the Sequencer until I have the kit pieces I want. I sometimes save this as a SS Pattern so I can recall that setup. Generally I like to do all the drums I can in one take lane, but occasionally I'll have triplets over top of a 4/4 pattern and I'll create a separate track lane with a new 6/8 SS clip.
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Sam4246
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Re: Step sequencer - the triplet question yet again!
2016/12/13 17:36:47
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craigr68
If you stack track lanes, don't forget to set this. Otherwise you'll probably have problems with stacking the take lanes over top of each other.
Change Preferences > Customization > Editing Drag and Drop setting to "Blend Old and New"
Thanks craigr! Will that preference change stay that way for just that project? Or will that be the default for any project I open until I change it back? Also, when I have different take lanes like this example (for AD 2 and for purpose of triplets) do I need to comp the takes? Just curious because I have not tried comping yet. If I was at my DAW right now, I would just try it and see what happens.
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craigr68
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Re: Step sequencer - the triplet question yet again!
2016/12/13 17:50:10
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The preference setting will be the default for any project until it's changed back. I've only used comping to do multiple takes while on the fly recording. With step sequencer you're not really doing that. You're just selecting squares in the step sequencer with a mouse, so I don't see how that would apply.
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