Sanderxpander
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Still no stability with Waves VST3
Ok I am a little bit annoyed now. The Waves VST3 stuff is still not sorted completely I feel. Today I had a recording session with just acoustic guitar and vocals. I did a few takes so I did a very small amount of comping to fix one or two sentences and then the singer wanted to hear how it sounded from beginning to end. Hang on, I said, I'll slap on a little reverb and a compressor.
1. Create a new bus with BReverb2 Cakewalk, select a nice preset and kill the dry
2. Create a send from the vocal track
3. Load RVox mono
4. Crash "Sonar needs to close".
This happened four times in total during different versions of the same project (I resaved and reloaded with each new song after the guitar was done so I had to make the same basic vocal setup a few times). Only once did I get the error report thing and of course I sent it. If I closed the project, reopened it and inserted RVox it was usually fine although I did get one crash even that way. I got very CTRL+S happy but I'm not pleased.
I hope there is still some work being done on this for X3c.
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Danny Danzi
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Re: Still no stability with Waves VST3
2013/10/21 17:53:40
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Sander, I'm thinking this may be something specific to your system. There are many people using Waves without issues like what you're seeing from what I've read on the forum. I'd definitely try and contact Sonar support to see if they can help you on this.
Other than that, the only thing I can recommend would be to go into your preferences, VST and do a reset on the plugs. Then tick "rescan existing plugs", rescan and then see how it works. 90% of the time this fixes plug issues, but may not work for you. (remember to take the tick out of scan existing plugs after your done)
I just had a dealing with support today and let me tell you, I like to think I know what goes on with Sonar under the hood. As much as I know, I'm still clueless and found that my issue I reported was my own fault. Something that I completely missed was totally jacking my Waves plugs that would have been really hard to track down. But I was determined and found out it was totally on me. So you never know...I'm not at all dismissing that you have a problem, I'm just saying that quite a few times we can miss the obvious even when we are pretty sure we know we've done everything right. Then there's the other side....things that worked in X2 may appear to be broken in X3. This was part of my problem too.
"How did it work in 8.5, X1 and X2 yet it doesn't work in X3....it's X3's fault!!" Come to find out things are working BETTER in X3 so it caught the mistake that shouldn't have worked in previous versions. So it appeared broken in X3 when in reality, it was pilot error.
Just curious....do you happen to have any console emulation on any of your tracks or buses? If so, try removing them and see if it still happens. I wish I could be more helpful, but I'd definitely turn this one over to support by phone if you live in the USA.
-Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Still no stability with Waves VST3
2013/10/21 18:00:50
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☄ Helpfulby brconflict 2013/10/24 00:16:50
I also consider myself pretty tech savvy but of course that's exactly why it's easy to assume I did everything right, you're right about that.
However, I honestly don't believe a program crashing and not even giving you the chance of saving your work should ever be considered "pilot error". At best, assuming I actually did something really dumb and confusing for the software, it's crappy error handling.
As far as I'm aware the only caveat with Waves is to not mix VST2 with VST3 plugs, which I made very sure I'm not doing. I'm going to replace all my Waves VST3s with 2s in new projects and see how that goes for a while.
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sharke
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Re: Still no stability with Waves VST3
2013/10/21 18:51:06
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From what I've read on the forums it sounds to me like the Bakers are putting a lot of effort into fixing everything Waves related, so I would not be surprised if the next update improved things. For what it's worth I've had Waves crashes like you describe in X3b, but they were all related to mixing VST2 with VST3. Have you set Sonar to hide the VST2 plugs, just to be doubly sure?
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TheSteven
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Re: Still no stability with Waves VST3
2013/10/21 19:20:19
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As far as your plug-ins go - are you using the "Default All Plug-ins" menu or a custom menu to insert your Waves plug-in into your track?
If you are using a custom plug-in layout menu that you created before X3 then that might be part of the problem.
Currently as of X3b - even if you have the "Hide Related VST2 Plug-ins" option checked Sonar X3 does not replace the VST2 plug-ins listed in custom menus with their VST3 counterparts
If I recall correctly Noel mentioned that this was a feature that was going to appear in X3c.
"Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils" Loius-Hector Berlioz  www.AgitatedState.com MenuMagic - plug-in management powertools! My Tunes
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rodreb
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Re: Still no stability with Waves VST3
2013/10/21 21:37:37
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Just updated to X3 from X2 (haven't installed it yet). I'm having pretty good luck stability wise with my Waves stuff right now. Kinda scared to mess things up. Is it mandatory to switch over to VST3 or, can I just stay with my VST2's with X3.
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scook
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Re: Still no stability with Waves VST3
2013/10/21 21:49:00
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There is nothing forcing the switch to VST3, stay with VST2 versions if you wish.
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rodreb
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Re: Still no stability with Waves VST3
2013/10/21 21:54:52
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Actually, I'd like to try the VST3's but, if I have a problem with them, can I switch back to the VST2's?
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scook
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Re: Still no stability with Waves VST3
2013/10/21 22:00:01
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Sure, you just need to be careful. You cannot mix Wave VST2 and VST3. SONAR still uses scan paths to locate plug-ins.
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TheSteven
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Re: Still no stability with Waves VST3
2013/10/21 22:33:14
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scook
Sure, you just need to be careful. You cannot mix Wave VST2 and VST3. SONAR still uses scan paths to locate plug-ins.
Re >SONAR still uses scan paths to locate plug-ins. Yes & no. Most VST3 installers put a copy of the VST3 in C:\Program Files\Common Files\VST3or if appropriate C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\VST3 The X3 VST Scanner automatically scans these locations as well. The scanner is smart enough to not list the 32 bit version if a 64 bit version exists. If the VST Scanner finds a VST3 in both locations Sonar will list the copy found in your scan paths otherwise it will log that VST3 where it is found, regardless of if it's in your scan paths or the Program Files location. So if you delete a VST3 plug-in from your scan path and a copy exists in Program Files that plug-in is still going to show up. If you are using the "Default - All Plug-ins" menus then it should be pretty easy to identify what's what 'cause your plug-ins are already separated by type (VST2, VST3, etc.). If you are using custom plug-in layout menus then it depends on how you set up your menus and if they were initially created before X3. As mentioned previously in this thread: TheSteven
Currently as of X3b - even if you have the "Hide Related VST2 Plug-ins" option checked Sonar X3 does not replace the VST2 plug-ins listed in custom menus with their VST3 counterparts
If I recall correctly Noel mentioned that this was a feature that was going to appear in X3c.
"Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils" Loius-Hector Berlioz www.AgitatedState.com MenuMagic - plug-in management powertools! My Tunes
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scook
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Re: Still no stability with Waves VST3
2013/10/21 22:44:30
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TheSteven
scook
Sure, you just need to be careful. You cannot mix Wave VST2 and VST3. SONAR still uses scan paths to locate plug-ins.
Re >SONAR still uses scan paths to locate plug-ins.
Yes & no.
Most VST3 installers put a copy of the VST3 in C:\Program Files\Common Files\VST3
or if appropriate C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\VST3
Those are scan paths too, just not shown in SONAR Preferences. SONAR has not displayed all scan paths starting with X1 Producer. With VST3 Cakewalk just added two more.
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lfm
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Re: Still no stability with Waves VST3
2013/10/21 23:17:36
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rodreb
Actually, I'd like to try the VST3's but, if I have a problem with them, can I switch back to the VST2's?
I think the easiest is to just hide VST3's in plugin manager - not fiddle with folders. I did the same, but opposite, hiding all VST2 Waves not to make mistakes. Noel shared that it's easy to see if a VST3 or VST2 is loaded - the bypass up on the left is grayed for VST2 but works for VST3. I would also uncheck replacing VST2's thingy setting - so that does not interfere inserting VST2's somehow. One never knows how that is implemented.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Still no stability with Waves VST3
2013/10/22 00:28:31
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Hi guys,
There are lots of enhancements coming up in X3C that address many plugin management issues. Layouts will also auto upgrade to VST3 if you choose to upgrade VST2's. Also several fixes were made to bulletproof the upgrade process. Most problems are being caused by inadvertently mixing Waves VST2 and VST3.
You can also now tell easily if a plugin is a VST3 by looking at the VST menu - it will say VST3 or VST2.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Still no stability with Waves VST3
2013/10/22 03:50:43
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Ok to clarify, over the past few weeks I've made sure like four times now that I'm not mixing VST2 and 3. I'm using a custom plugin layout that I created in X3 and the VST2 versions of Waves are not in there at all. I've verified this numerous times now. So unless the VST background scanner is randomly opening plugins in the background or something, there is no way at all I'm mixing the two. Especially not since in the situation I described, RVox VST3 was only the second plugin I opened, the first being BReverb2 Cakewalk. I wish I could uninstall the VST2 versions completely as an extra safeguard, but I'm also running Ableton and need them for that. I may uninstall the VST3 versions but I was happy to use the side chaining.
Again, I'm not ruling out I'm doing something strange on my end, but it's not mixing Waves VST2/3. And I still don't believe an abrupt force close is acceptable, no matter what I did.
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THambrecht
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Re: Still no stability with Waves VST3
2013/10/22 06:07:09
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In my case, there are also problems with Waves VST3.
When I close a project and open another, Sonar X3b crashes every time.
But it works fine, when I close the project, close Sonar, and restart Sonar and then load the other project. This is an easy workaround for this problem.
Something from Waves seems to linger in the RAM Memory by closing the project. All projects are saved in X3b and it ist ONLY up to the VST3 waves plugins.
I have thes problem identical on three Computer.
Some crash reports were sendet a few days ago.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Still no stability with Waves VST3
2013/10/22 06:52:57
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I also sent a message to Waves support and they got back to me saying they're aware there are still issues with Waves and X3, they're working with the Cake people, and it's the reason X3 is not on the list of "supported products" yet.
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Still no stability with Waves VST3
2013/10/22 07:14:34
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So maybe the odd crash I get when opening one particular project is not due to Kontakt 5 after all? Maybe I'm after the wrong suspect here and it's also due to WAVES VST3??? Need to wait to here back from Cakewalk, I did submit to the problem reporter ... My particular project loads a bunch of K5 samples and when done, it crashes. When shutting the Octa-Capture off, it loads, then prompts for a missing interface and then crashes ... so maybe the crashes are not related to the K5 sample loading, but due to the audio engine and Waves VST3 because it was mostly recorded and mixed in X2a (never showing the current problems) ... now with X3b, I ensured that WAVES is all VST3 ... I wonder if that was such a great idea ...
GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER +++ Visit the Rehab +++ DAW: Platinum/X3e, win10 64 bit, i7-3930K (6x3.2GHz), Asus Sabertooth X79, 32 GB DDR3 1600MHz, ATI HD 5450, 120 GB SSD OCZ Agility3, 2x 1TB WD HDD SATA 600 Audio-Interface: 2x MOTU 1248 AVB, Focusrite OctoPre, (Roland Octa-Capture) Control-Surface: VS-700C VSTi: WAVES, NI K10u, FabFilter, IK, ... (too many really)
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Mystic38
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Re: Still no stability with Waves VST3
2013/10/22 18:04:43
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X3c should be out in a week or so, I am sure there are bunch of improvements in the VST handling.. if you have submitted bug reports, probably best to wait until then...?
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Re: Still no stability with Waves VST3
2013/10/22 23:38:14
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Sanderxpander
Ok I am a little bit annoyed now. The Waves VST3 stuff is still not sorted completely I feel. Today I had a recording session with just acoustic guitar and vocals. I did a few takes so I did a very small amount of comping to fix one or two sentences and then the singer wanted to hear how it sounded from beginning to end. Hang on, I said, I'll slap on a little reverb and a compressor.1. Create a new bus with BReverb2 Cakewalk, select a nice preset and kill the dry2. Create a send from the vocal track3. Load RVox mono4. Crash "Sonar needs to close". This happened four times in total during different versions of the same project (I resaved and reloaded with each new song after the guitar was done so I had to make the same basic vocal setup a few times). Only once did I get the error report thing and of course I sent it. If I closed the project, reopened it and inserted RVox it was usually fine although I did get one crash even that way. I got very CTRL+S happy but I'm not pleased.I hope there is still some work being done on this for X3c.
Send Support or myself a bundle file and we can load it up on our Waves machine to see what's up. Crash issues are hard to track down so send us a .dmp file too if you can get this to crash repeatedly.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Still no stability with Waves VST3
2013/10/23 06:04:15
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One crash report was sent automatically. I'm mixing the projects now and they have been fine.
Each time the crash happened after I had been recording for a while, doing a few takes, made a very basic comp and then inserted RVox or RComp. If this happens during a next a recording (or mixing) session I will definitely send you the project, however, saving/closing the project and then reopening it always made it work again, so I don't know how easy it would be to reproduce the crash.
Waves support told me they'd likely be making a new installer too, and also that there is no reason VST2 should work any better since it is also not officially supported for X3 yet. So yay. At least I don't have to bother uninstalling the VST3s. I'll just not use them. Nice virtual gold paperweights.
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Re: Still no stability with Waves VST3
2013/10/23 10:34:40
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Sanderxpander
Nice virtual gold paperweights.
HAH! Sanderxpander
One crash report was sent automatically. I'm mixing the projects now and they have been fine.
Each time the crash happened after I had been recording for a while, doing a few takes, made a very basic comp and then inserted RVox or RComp. If this happens during a next a recording (or mixing) session I will definitely send you the project , however, saving/closing the project and then reopening it always made it work again, so I don't know how easy it would be to reproduce the crash.
Feel free to shoot me the project regardless or PM me if I'm offline. -DG
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williamsblackman
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Re: Still no stability with Waves VST3
2013/10/23 11:15:17
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hi dan I notice when I do a audio bounce my tracks and atch the wave preview is shows a line at the top of the waves preview is this by design because I reported to tech support in x2. sorry for the off topic
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Re: Still no stability with Waves VST3
2013/10/23 14:23:50
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williamsblackman
hi dan I notice when I do a audio bounce my tracks and atch the wave preview is shows a line at the top of the waves preview is this by design because I reported to tech support in x2. sorry for the off topic
Can you PM me this issue in greater detail? Thanks! -DG
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brconflict
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Re: Still no stability with Waves VST3
2013/10/24 00:19:30
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Concur on the not mixing VST2/3 Waves plug-ins, especially in the same FX chain. Also, I recommend downloading and installing Waves V9r14 to help with some other possible idiosyncrasies. Stick with only the VST3 plug-ins from Waves and you should have a more trouble-free experience.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Still no stability with Waves VST3
2013/10/24 00:41:09
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Not sure if this is directed at me but as I've said a couple of times, I'm NOT mixing VST2 and 3 and made sure of this multiple times.
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Still no stability with Waves VST3
2013/10/24 01:22:36
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brconflict
Concur on the not mixing VST2/3 Waves plug-ins, especially in the same FX chain. Also, I recommend downloading and installing Waves V9r14 to help with some other possible idiosyncrasies. Stick with only the VST3 plug-ins from Waves and you should have a more trouble-free experience.
Not sure if this will change the situation much; release news don't mention any overall fixes; WAVES official supported Sonar version is still X2 Waves V9r14 installers - October 15th, 2013The new J37 Tape available separately.The new Dave Aude EMP Toolbox.GTR Tuner is added to 'All MRSG compatible plugins'.UltraPitch: added 96khz Native support.Waves Tune & Waves Tune LT: fixed crashes on Nuendo 6 and Cubase 7 when using "Copy Notes".SoundShifter Pitch: pitch value settings fixed.GTR & GTR Solo: MIDI functionality issues fixed.GTR & GTR Solo: crash on A->B fixed.GTR Solo: Amp meter now functions properly
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Still no stability with Waves VST3
2013/10/24 07:51:33
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Of those I only have Tune LT and I never use it.
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FranJo
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Re: Still no stability with Waves VST3
2013/11/17 11:43:23
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I finally fixed my Waves causing X3 to crash by doing the following.
Downloaded the latest installer from Waves.
Went to VST settings under Preferences and removed all folders to scan except for C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\Vstplugins and C:\Program Files\Common Files\VST3. I then reset the plugins and then rescanned them. For some reason when I tried to reset the plugins I kept getting a message that a scan was in progress even though it wasn't. After rebooting the computer I was able to reset the plugins and scan again. I haven't had a crash since.
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