Helpful ReplyStrat mods

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robbyk
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2016/12/08 15:00:40 (permalink)

Strat mods

My son is looking for a nice electric guitar for Christmas now that he has fulltime work. He has been looking around and gravitating towards a strat, HSS.
 
I suggested perhaps the new Fender American Professional Stratocaster HSS e.g. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/fender-american-professional-stratocaster-hss-shawbucker-maple-fingerboard-electric-guitar
 
He is also looking at Mexican strats at ~ 1/3 the price.
 
If he goes the latter, any drawbacks or naysayers or critical mods? Any suggestions? Anything better (within the same price range) than the Fender from custom luthiers, etc?
 
Thanks!

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dcumpian
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Re: Strat mods 2016/12/08 16:14:49 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby robbyk 2016/12/08 19:56:34
I bought and upgraded a mexi-strat and, when it was done, I'd spent about as much as an HSS would have cost, but I did get to pick my own parts. Most of the cost was in custom wound pickups. I'm very happy with it.
 
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tlw
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Re: Strat mods 2016/12/08 18:12:13 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby robbyk 2016/12/08 19:56:29
I have a mid 2000s MIM as my only Strat. I went into the shop expecting to leave with a US one but that particular MIM, out of the 30 or so Strats I tried, really sang and resonated when not plugged in and felt by far the most comfortable.

As it left the factory it wasn't bad apart from a dreadfully cut nut, but the US ones I tried weren't much better. Fender seem to have got better on that front though.

I didn't like the Mexican pickups - they had ceramic bar magnets and sounded harsh and buzzed quite a lot. And the trem was about as reliable as an unreliable thing.

So I switched the pickups for a set of Lace Sensor Hot Gold and replaced the nut with a Graphtec teflon impregnated one. I also switched the trem block from the cast pot-metal for a Callaham 50s spec steel one which improved sustain and treble. I also fitted a tremsetter in the trem cavity so it can float enough to give a semitone up-bend and still consistently return to tune.

Overall it probably cost me about the same as a US Standard of the time. But had I bought a US Standard or Deluxe I'd still have wanted to change the pickups and probably the trem block as well.

Some of that probably qualifies as "cork sniffing", so I'd say the only thing that affected the playing other than the usual Strat trem stability issues was the factory nut. And it needed a setup of course.

My most recent Fender is a 2015 Wilko Johnson signature Tele, one of a limited release of 200 for Europe and Japan only. It's basically the 1960s vintage rosewood-board, alder body MIM in a non-standard colour scheme. It plays superbly and sounds like a vintage Tele should. I set the action and intonation and otherwise I feel no need to change anything.

And it cost less than the "regular" model for some reason. Maybe black with a red scratchplate is a really cheap finish to apply or something.

You could do far worse than a MIM Fender.

Avoid Korean-built Fender though. I've a Lite Ash Tele I bought online that left the factory with the bridge plate askew far enough to trap the strings so they couldn't be pulled through the body. The body string holes were in the right place but the bridge securing screws had been put in at a diagonal angle that meant the bridge was in the wrong place and at the wrong angle. Easy enough to fix in an hour by plugging the holes and re-fitting the screws where they should have been.

And the neck needed shimming to correct the fingerboard angle and levering sideways a bit in the pocket to get it perpendicular to the body. Overall a really shabby bit of work on what is some very nice wood fitted with Duncan pickups. All easy to fix in an hour or two you know what you're doing, and no worse than some seventies Fender
production, but it should never have left the factory like that. I've seen a few horror stories about other Korean Fenders, which is a bit surprising as the Korean factories can and usually do build perfectly good guitars for the price asked.

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Cactus Music
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Re: Strat mods 2016/12/08 19:13:30 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby robbyk 2016/12/08 19:56:27
From experience.. don't buy guitars from a on line shop. Or at least approach with caution. Buy from a store where you can try it out. 
There's no music store where I live and because you can send stuff back, I tried the ordering on line routine. Two ended up going back as they where duds. One was a G&L which normally are excellent ( I have one already) but the set ups were out to lunch and even after I tried best I could  they were still not up to my standards. I sold the G&L to a musician who liked the way it looked and didn't seem to care about the string buzzes.   These where all $800 price range. In the end I just upgraded the pups on my Strat copy and all is good. 

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#4
robbyk
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Re: Strat mods 2016/12/08 19:58:10 (permalink)
Cactus Music
From experience.. don't buy guitars from a on line shop. Or at least approach with caution. Buy from a store where you can try it out. 




Even Sweetwater? Nonetheless, we are going to go to a local Guitar Center later this month when he comes home for Christmas before buying :)

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robbyk
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Re: Strat mods 2016/12/08 19:59:14 (permalink)
Thanks all for the GREAT replies, just what I was hoping for. I still like that new American Series :)

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dcumpian
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Re: Strat mods 2016/12/08 20:31:39 (permalink)
I will say, the block and the pickups are the two most important things to get good tone out of it. I used a brass block and it rings now. I also used Lindy Fralin pickups which really smoothed out the tone, but they can get aggressive when I want them to. Tim is right that the lower end American strats aren't any better than the mexi-strats. They don't get really good until you are well over a $1000.
 
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Cactus Music
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Re: Strat mods 2016/12/08 22:32:21 (permalink)
I never have bought a guitar from Sweetwater so not sure  possibly they do set up before shipping. Obviously Musicians Friend does not. They just move merchandise.  A real music store will take the guitar out of the box and look it over, 99% of the time set up is required. The guitar has just traveled from a sub tropical climate with mega humidity to what ever we have here. 
 
The guitars I bought 2 from Musicians friend and were basically untouched by human hands since they were packed in China. The necks were bowed and with a twist, Total junk. The G&L was the best and like I say I sold it to someone who fell in love with the way it looked.  
 
A good music store will set the guitar up for the average player, but if your fussy, they will send it in for that next level of set up at no charge.  
 
I owned a music store for 12 years and unpacked 100's of guitars, In those days ( the 90"s) most were from Korea. Turns out those were pretty good instruments compared to what we get from China now. At the end my stores brief history guitars were starting to come from Indonesia and those were garbage compared to domestic and Korean. The Korean guitars took very little set up time. Once Indonesia and China kicked in I was filing the edges of frets to make them playable. Grab any Chinese guitar and run your hand along the edge of the frets... Don't cut yourself. 
 
I'm sticking to North American made stuff. Godin, Gibson and Fender USA. My G&L is USA made. The ones I ordered were China so BIG difference,, shame on the companies who lower themselves to this.  

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gswitz
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Re: Strat mods 2016/12/08 22:45:30 (permalink)
My only comment is I'm still playing my 1995 strat. Last night I was in a room with a guy playing his 1985 strat.
 
If you like it you might have it a while. Spread the cost over the years and I've been paying about a dime a day for my strat. No brainer.
 
Get one you dump after a couple of years and your cost per day may prove much higher. You should get one that plays good, feels good, looks good, and you can be proud of tomorrow. Be cautious of too much glitz. Glitz makes some people you might like scowl.

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tlw
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Re: Strat mods 2016/12/08 23:42:44 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Cactus Music 2016/12/09 10:32:53
I've seen a couple of decent Chinese-built guitars, Selmer-Macaferri copies that are far from cheap. And an Indonesian made Fender electric mandolin that's fine. Also some rubbish as well.

The far-Eastern companies specialise in building to a price. Samick are maybe the biggest guitar manufacturer in the world in terms of number of instruments produced and make instruments for a wide range of companies. When paid to do an excellent job they can di an excellent job. When paid to churn out low-cost bargain-basement stuff that's what they churn out.

And it has to be said that a cheap guitar nowadays is usually far better than the cheap guitars of the 70s and 80s.

Buying guitars and basses on-line is like buying anything else that matters online. Recommendations from people who've been customers can be a good guide to who's likely to ship out a good instrument and who's less likely to. Back in the early 90s I worked a 20 minute drive from one of the best and largest guitar/bass/amps retailers and repairers in Europe, the much missed Musical Exchanges in Birmingham (that's Brum, England, not Birmingham anywhere else).

They sadly went the way of all things, and these days the local shop options are not so good. So online it pretty much has to be. Synths, pedals and amps are no problem bought online, either the electronics are working or they're not and if not send it back. Stringed instruments are more personal and it can take years to find out what suits you best.

I never expect to buy a guitar set-up the way I want and even in a shop I'm not really that interested in how well a guitar is set-up other than looking for obvious faults like humps in the fingerboard, badly installed frets or bridge and tuners that don't work properly. I was taught the basics of setup and maintenance about 30 years ago by someone who really knew what he was doing. So I can do all that stuff myself and I know what I like. Which no-one else really does. All my guitars have slightly different setups, and I play quite a bit of slide, which means super-low actions, a low nut and neck relief set for thin slinky strings are the last thing I want on a couple of my instruments anyway.

The good thing about electric guitars and basses, especially Fenders with bolt-on necks, is pretty much everything is adjustable with a screwdriver which isn't the case with acoustics. Well it is adjustable, but you might go through a few saddle blanks before carving one to the optimum shape, thickness and height.

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JohanSebatianGremlin
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Re: Strat mods 2016/12/09 00:36:10 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby robbyk 2016/12/09 15:12:45
I vote for the mexi-strat. You're going to end up changing out the pickups no matter what you buy. So get the mexi-strat and then put in what you want. 
 
Or better yet, get yourself a neck from Warmoth and a body from ebay and then pick all your own parts. Put it together yourself and for a bit more than a mexi-strat, but certainly less than an american version, you'll end up with something that will rival the top end custom shop models.
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Re: Strat mods 2016/12/09 08:51:55 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby robbyk 2016/12/09 11:16:39
I'm a big fan of Mexican Fenders.  I've got a MIM Telecaster, P-Bass, and Jazz Bass.  
The big drawback on these are the pickups, but you can buy replacements and still be at less than 50% of the MIA cost.
 
Telecaster:  Bought a Texas Special bridge pickup, and a Lace Sensor dual-gold HB for the neck, both on ebay, ~$100 total.
P-Bass:  Bought a US Fender pickup and a Gotoh 201 Bridge, ~$120 total.
Jazz Bass:  Bought the Tony Franklin PJ pickup set and a Gotoh 201 Bridge, ~$150 total.
 
After those changes, I'd hold these instruments against ANYTHING else i've played in my 30 years as a musician.

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BobF
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Re: Strat mods 2016/12/09 09:25:47 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby robbyk 2016/12/09 15:12:56
Another option is used American Strats.  You'll end up somewhere between the 1/3 cost of new MIM and 1/2 the cost of a new MIA.
 
Not for a few years, but I've owned both.  The MIM was nice for the price.  The MIA was nice.
('99 MIM I bought new, then a '98 Am Dlx I bought used in '00)
 
So maybe all of the hardware won't have to be changed in a used MIA.  Might get away with just a pup swap if he has a specific set in mind.  And somebody else will have taken the initial depreciation hit.

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DeeringAmps
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Re: Strat mods 2016/12/09 10:00:55 (permalink)
Buy a used Grosh, Anderson, Shur (is that spelling right?) and never look back!
Valley Arts made some great strat based models back in the day.
Thing is, I've NEVER owned a Fender Strat; '57 Duo Sonic ($50, knew I could flip it for $75)
and a '64 Jazz, gotta play bass once in awhile.
Love my "retro-classic" Grosh tho'....
Just sayin'
 
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Strat mods 2016/12/09 11:50:17 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby robbyk 2016/12/09 15:05:43
I used to mod my guitars/basses... trying to find that elusive tone.
One thing to be aware of...
If you decide to liquidate modified instruments, it doesn't increase the value.
If it was a $500 guitar, putting another $600 of mods/upgrades won't make it a $1100 guitar when reselling.
 
I took a bath on numerous guitars/basses...
 
Years later, I decided to only buy instruments I love "as is".
At least for me, it helps keep G.A.S. (somewhat) in check.  
 
If you get a higher-end instrument, if you mod it... make sure to keep the original parts and avoid destructive changes that can't be reversed.  That can kill the value... and (maybe it's just me), but I don't like seeing classic instruments "butchered".  
 
 
 

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rsinger
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Re: Strat mods 2016/12/09 12:42:30 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby robbyk 2016/12/09 15:06:22
I have a fender am std strat. It's a great guitar, but I tried a lot before I found one that was setup properly. When it comes to cars and guitars I want to try the one I'm going to buy, I don't like to order them. Since I do home recording and single coil Pups are susceptible to noise I put in a set of Joe Barden Pups.
 
One thing to consider in going MIM is if the hardware is the same. The tuners don't affect the playability when you try it, but strats are known for going out of tune so you want good tuners ...
 

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michaelhanson
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Re: Strat mods 2016/12/09 14:02:32 (permalink)
I agree with Jim; mods do absolutely nothing for resale value or trading.  Over the last 10 years, I tend to buy higher end instruments and if I mod them, keep the original parts.  They are more valuable this way when reselling or trading.  
 
As far as Fenders go, I still feel the best bang for the buck is a used MIA.  There have been some very good deals out there in the last couple of years if you watch the used market and know your stuff.  
 
I have owned 3 Fender Strat's in the last 10 years, an American Deluxe, an American Standard and a MIM.  I traded the Am. Deluxe for a Gibson LP about 6 years ago.  Last summer I traded the 2013 American Standard for a 2013 Gibson LP Studio.  I kept the MIM.
 
The MIM was originally purchase as a back up instrument on the used market for $220; with the sole intent to modify it into a gigging back up instrument.  Pretty much everything has been modified on this MIM; infact the only original part still left with the guitar is the body itself.  The neck got changed out for a new MIM neck back in August when it needed a fret job.  The block was replaced with a heavy steel block.  The bridge was replaced.  Tuners replaced with Fender Locking tuners.  The pickguard was replaced along with the pots when I bought a fully loaded pickguard and pick ups from an American made Strat off eBay.   I have gone through the original pickups, the American made pick ups, Duncan Texas Antiquities and Duncan stacked pickups on this instrument until I settled into Rose Pick Ups, custom wound to a Gilmour mix of neck, middle and bridge.  I will never get anything more out of this instrument than it being a used MIM Strat, but I kept it as my main player because it was so heavily modified, that it played every bit as well as the expensive Strat's that I owned; and got most of my playing time, for Strats.  I used the bargaining power of the better instruments as trade for other high quality instruments.
 
If I was to start over again, however, I would buy a used MIA Strat and change PU's until I got it where I wanted it.    

Mike

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robbyk
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Re: Strat mods 2016/12/09 15:08:30 (permalink)
Thanks again everyone, that is a LOT of great info to absorb and consider and we sincerely appreciate it!

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Vilovilo
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Re: Strat mods 2016/12/09 15:27:05 (permalink)
Hi,
Personnaly I would say that the trick is to play the guitar with no considerations for the price and then pick the one which sounds and goes inside your budget.( I cannot imagine getting a guitar I didn't hold in my hands)
What I mean is that I tried a lot of guitars when it was time to buy one,expensive and cheap,and I finally found the one with which I was in phase and that I could buy.
By the way I would not sell theese instruments because I am ok with them and some have been beside me for several years.
Cheers
Olivier
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jbraner
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Re: Strat mods 2016/12/09 16:12:19 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby robbyk 2016/12/10 11:40:10
I agree that the best thing is to go actually play the guitars. The more you can try, the better ;-)
If you have to travel to a city, where you can go to a bunch of shops - I think it's worth it. Make a day of it.

I have a 1998 am deluxe (I think that's what it's called - it's a tiny step more than an am std) HSS strat (Lone Star strat), a 2012 Master built strat ('59 NOS strat by Yuriy Shishkov), and a 2014 Am std Tele.

I love them all,and haven't replaced anything on them. The one you're looking at is the replacement for the Am std isn't it? I bet the pickups will be fine, and the build quality is good now.

Just let him try out a whole bunch - and take the one that "leaps in to his arms".
That's how I got the Masterbuilt - I was trying a bunch of Custom Shop ones, cause I wanted to get an "expensive" guitar, but I didn't trust myself to get an old one (that wasn't a rip off). I wasn't falling in love with any of them, and the guy let me try the -really- expensive one - and it just leapt in to my arms, and that was it. It felt and sounded wonderful - so I went home and thought about it and said "f%#@ it", that's the one for me 😀

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#20
JohanSebatianGremlin
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Re: Strat mods 2016/12/09 16:43:32 (permalink)
michaelhanson
I agree with Jim; mods do absolutely nothing for resale value or trading.  

True enough. But if you want to talk investments and RIO you're probably in the wrong forum.
 
I've got a buddy who does guitars as investments. He's got a collection of heavily insured attic find and yard sale bargain 50's and 60's instruments that he keeps locked in cases and never plays them, touches them or even looks at them. His RIO on those instruments is extremely good.
 
IMO if you want to consider guitars as investments, that is the only way to do it. Anything less is just telling yourself stories in order to feel less guilty about how much you spent on your instrument.
 
My guitars are tools, not investments. I buy them and use them and I will never recoup the price I paid for any of them just as I will never recoup the price I paid for any tool I own. Not my guitars, not my table saw, not my John Deere. All of which have been heavily modified with after market parts since I bought them. 
#21
tlw
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Re: Strat mods 2016/12/09 16:52:11 (permalink)
I've never considered the resale value when I've bought an instrument. I'm a player, not a collector.

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#22
michaelhanson
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Re: Strat mods 2016/12/09 17:01:18 (permalink)
My guitars are tools as well. I never brought up the topic of investments. Buying quality instruments and taking reasonable care of them will give you more trading power than buying cheap. My Rick bass was purchased for $950 new back in 2002 and will fetch that plus some today, used.

Used MIM Strats go for $250-$350 all day long on CL.


Edit: I'm a player as well.

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#23
tlw
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Re: Strat mods 2016/12/09 17:56:45 (permalink)
I sold my vintage 50watt Plexi Lead head a couple of years ago. I bought it in I think 1979 from a guy who sold it to put the money towards a new HH solid-state amp. Back then it wasn't vintage, just old, second hand, battered and cheap.

I've not used it in years and can't imagine ever using it again, so thought it might as well go to a new home where it's wanted.

And got a remarkably good return on my 37 years long "investment". Certainly a better return than had I been responsible and put the money I spent on it in the bank like my parents thought I should.

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#24
JohanSebatianGremlin
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Re: Strat mods 2016/12/09 21:33:52 (permalink)
tlw
And got a remarkably good return on my 37 years long "investment". Certainly a better return than had I been responsible and put the money I spent on it in the bank like my parents thought I should.

Very few people that I know consider putting money into a bank savings account to be anything resembling a 'good investment'. That being said, here is the very blunt way to describe the point I was trying make above. If you're buying instruments that you intend to use as an investment, you suck at investing. 
 
Is it possible to buy an instrument or some piece of musical equipment, hold it for 30 years and sell it for more than you originally bought it for? Sure. Let's look at the classic 80's dream synth, the Roland Jupiter 8. I absolutely LUSTED after that beast when I was 16. But at $5000 a copy, it was way beyond my means at the time. 
 
These days the Jupiter 8 is still an in-demand synth and good condition well-used copies routinely sell for $8000-$10000 today. So if I had been smart, I would have bought one way back when for $5000, held it for 30 years and then I could sell it today for double the price. Great investment right?


Sure is. Until you realize that $5000 in 1983 ends up being about $12,000 in 2016 adjusted dollars. So while you thought you made money on your 1983 instrument 'investment', you didn't. You lost money. Just not as much as you would have lost on a bunch of other instruments of the day, Korg Poly 800 I'm lookin' at you.

And for perspective, that bad investment of putting your money into a corner bank savings account (and it is a bad investment) we were talking about? While interest rates are in the toilet these days, the average over the last 30 years has been about 5.6%. So $5000 deposited in 1983 and left to compound annually for 30 years would yield about $25k today. So yeah like I said, if you're buying an instrument you intend to use and thinking of it as any kind of investment, you suck at investing.
#25
Vastman
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Re: Strat mods 2016/12/09 22:24:03 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby robbyk 2016/12/12 15:23:21
BobF
Another option is used American Strats.  You'll end up somewhere between the 1/3 cost of new MIM and 1/2 the cost of a new MIA.
 
Not for a few years, but I've owned both.  The MIM was nice for the price.  The MIA was nice.
('99 MIM I bought new, then a '98 Am Dlx I bought used in '00)
 
So maybe all of the hardware won't have to be changed in a used MIA.  Might get away with just a pup swap if he has a specific set in mind.  And somebody else will have taken the initial depreciation hit.


agree... GC usually has great deals on used guitars...and pickups might have already been upgraded, along with other things... and you can dicker pretty good... 25% off of what they list is normal in my experience with used or new... work with a manager, not a regular human...
 
If you have several GCs in your region like we do in the bay area, go on-line and often times they'll list what a store has.  

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#26
fireberd
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Re: Strat mods 2016/12/12 06:37:17 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby robbyk 2016/12/12 10:04:36
Just a comment on Sweetwater.  I don't usually buy guitars on line.  I worked in a music store (in Nashville) in the early 70's and each guitar in stock tended to have its own identity.  I had a Gretsch PX6120 (bought new in 61) and always wished I hadn't sold it.   In a "soft moment" I bought a Gretsch from Sweetwater.  When it arrived it was in perfect condition and the intonation was also perfect. 
 
But, the case was another story and it had to be replaced as the lining inside was coming apart.  They apparently went over the guitar but didn't check the case.
 
I don't have a Strat but I have a MIM "Nashville" Tele.  Our lead guitar player, who plays a US Strat (has Blue Lace Sensors and ball bearing nut), likes my Tele and usually plays it when I have him on a recording session.

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#27
spacey
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Re: Strat mods 2016/12/12 08:21:13 (permalink)
 
I think I'd keep my mouth shut and let him get what he wanted UNLESS you knew he was getting piece of junk, a bad deal or being ripped off.
 
Why? Because he'll get what he feels is right. If he doesn't recognize the quality of a high-end guitar he doesn't need it anyway.
If he isn't happy with it down the road you won't be part of the reason but then could be part of making it better-maybe a guitar he does like.
 
If he doesn't know the basic differences between electric guitars; short-scale vs. long, HB vs Singles, hard-tail vs trem, solid body vs semi-solid, tilt/angle neck vs straight, fret size (sm vs lrg) -neck contours - maybe wood choices, etc......point them out to him.
 
Of course...I'd ask him about all those specifics along with aesthetics and build it.
 
 
 
#28
glennstanton
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Re: Strat mods 2016/12/12 09:30:18 (permalink)
bought a MIM HSS - humbucker in bridge position - ebay - $300. sounds good, plays really nice. could probably update pickups and bridge but overall very happy with it. because it is a "sea foam" (greenish) body it probably wasn't as popular so hence the good price.

-- Glenn
 
 
 
 
#29
robbyk
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Re: Strat mods 2016/12/12 10:09:07 (permalink)
spacey
 
I think I'd keep my mouth shut and let him get what he wanted UNLESS you knew he was getting piece of junk, a bad deal or being ripped off.




The fun is doing it together and talking about it, but the point is taken, he works at UCLA and is a director of photography in the film industry as well, I'm sure he'll do what he wants. But I've been playing since the 60s and he only recently, so it's nice of him to ask around the old crew :)

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#30
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