Strategies for Dealing with Plosives

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notdeafyet
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2012/04/12 19:02:55 (permalink)

Strategies for Dealing with Plosives

Plosives: the microphone, hit with a hard puff of air from a vocalist singing a P B C H etc. Diaphragm rattlers, input circuitry chokers, and unintentional kick drum mockers... I recently saw a guy simply cut the beginning of the wave off to minimize a plosive sound. I remembered doing it that way about a decade ago, and it made me wonder why I abandoned it for High Shelf EQ, Spot EQ, and/or Low-band Compression. What do you think? What are you currently doing about plosives?
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    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:Strategies for Dealing with Plosives 2012/04/12 19:19:08 (permalink)
    The easiest thing is to get a Reflexion filter and put it in between the singer and the microphone.


    But if that seems like too much money you can try getting the singer to turn their head a bit instead of making the mic go splat.


    best,
    mike


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    Jeff Evans
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    Re:Strategies for Dealing with Plosives 2012/04/12 19:19:49 (permalink)
    You need a pop filter. It is much better to actually remove the effect before it even happens. Why don't people think of the pop filter before trying to go in and edit actual waveforms. But you can do that too if the plosive still gets through. A HP filter just on the offending bit can really help too.

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    notdeafyet
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    Re:Strategies for Dealing with Plosives 2012/04/12 19:44:26 (permalink)
    I remember making a pop-screen from a coat-hanger and a pair of my wife's pantyhose (ones that were new of course). I've noticed that with today's sub-bass producing sound systems, some deep thump still comes through even when I use a pop-screen.
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    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:Strategies for Dealing with Plosives 2012/04/12 20:04:59 (permalink)
    xacto.

    That's why the reflexion filter is the way to go.


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    Jeff Evans
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    Re:Strategies for Dealing with Plosives 2012/04/12 20:22:33 (permalink)
    Reflexion filter is more about controlling room sound from getting into the mic. It is not going to stop a bad plosive hitting a diaphragm if you happened to be up close.

    Pantyhose on a coathanger does not cut it either. A proper pop filter usually has two layers of better quality material further apart. Just buy one period.

    There are some newer fancy ones now that use interesting steel that has been made in a way that displaces the air sideways and away from the diaphragm.

    Any very low subsonic things can be either removed with a decent shock mount which you should have anyway, the HP filter on the mic itself or some eq later on. Nothing beats a decent pop filter for getting rid of plosives.

    Singing off axis is not a good strategy either. Vocalists find it hard for a start, they tend to want to sing on axis which sounds better usually and is the more correct thing to do. Also if you are off axis you only have to move slightly and the plosive might harm you again. The sound off axis is not as good as the on axis sound.

    But should any plosives get through, if you have a pop filter they will much quieter and much easier to handle editing wise. I like to open the vocal track in a separate editor such as Adobe Audition and highlight just the offending plosive area and apply a steep HP filter on that and most of the pop sound will go away. You can trim it dowm a litle in gain too. But remember the plosive also forms part of the transient at the start of the sound so it is also important to have there.
    post edited by Jeff Evans - 2012/04/12 20:33:28

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    notdeafyet
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    Re:Strategies for Dealing with Plosives 2012/04/12 23:58:43 (permalink)
    Yea, that's right, and I remember thinking that the beginning of the "P" was sort of like the fuzzy HF sound of a kick drum mallet. It didn't sound right with that part of the sound missing, at least in soft songs, so I stopped cutting them off by trimming the clip and started using the low cut for mild plosives. but what about with a bass voice, like in a quartet. Once I was dissatisfied with a low-cut on a bass voice because it left the whole mix without any low frequency because the bass voice was supposed to be doing that but it also had mild plosives.
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    foxwolfen
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    Re:Strategies for Dealing with Plosives 2012/04/13 00:32:32 (permalink)
    Plosives are not fun to deal with in post. I think you are on the right track. There is no one technique to deal with all of them. Some of them cannot just be trimmed. That is where gates and limiters and eq all start to play their subtle parts and where technique becomes art. If one thing does not seem to be working, try another... and log everything you do. Seriously, a good log will save you much hair. edit - With sonar automation, you do not need to EQ or limit the entire track. You can isolate just the portions that need work.
    post edited by foxwolfen - 2012/04/13 00:39:13

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    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re:Strategies for Dealing with Plosives 2012/04/13 05:09:31 (permalink)
    mike_mccue


    The easiest thing is to get a Reflexion filter and put it in between the singer and the microphone.


    But if that seems like too much money you can try getting the singer to turn their head a bit instead of making the mic go splat.


    best,
    mike
    Rexlection filter is something you put behind the microphone. You can't do any kind of recording with the RF between the mic and the singer. Just a typo, I guess? You meant pop filter?

    Even a pop filter isn't enough, if it's a bad case. You should advice the singer not to sing directly towards the mic, but a little bit sideways.

    One trick that often works is a steep fade in. That's also quite fast to do.



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    Danny Danzi
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    Re:Strategies for Dealing with Plosives 2012/04/13 07:49:50 (permalink)
    How I deal with them:

    1. An outboard compressor just to condition my mic signal as it goes to disc. I don't use much, just enough to keep my loudest point from not going over -6dB. 2:1 ratio, maybe -8 to -10 on my threshold.

    2. High pass roll-off: I just about always use this if it comes on a mic. Then again, if a voice is thin or maybe a female, I may not touch this. But for most males, I just about always use the HF roll-off.

    3. Work the mic: When you know something is going to be a bit more forcefully sung, back off the mic a bit. If something will have a B, P, C/K, S or T sound, sing a little above the mic...as in sing over it top if you have to get on your tippy toes for that part...or bend slightly to duck under the line of fire if need be. Try not to ever turn your head or turn away from the line of fire on a mic. Shift your body or your torso so that it moves. As soon as you turn away, you lose impact and get a totally different sound. When you just move your torso, your sound is still being shot at the mic...you're just not singing dead on for that one word.

    4. A real pop filter: Yeah the panty hose thing may work in a pinch, but it's not really the same. A good pop filter...for as cheap as they are, can do wonders.
     
    5. Slip editing: You can always soften the blow of a plosive by good, old fashioned slip editing if you need to and just add a fade in on that part. Split the clip at the phrase where you hear the plosive, then add a fade by dragging the fade left to right until it softens up. :) Good luck!

    -Danny
    Edited for spelling
    post edited by Danny Danzi - 2012/04/13 08:00:38

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    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:Strategies for Dealing with Plosives 2012/04/13 07:55:54 (permalink)
    How many of y'all have actually tried singing through a Reflexion filter and taken a listen to the results.

    Kills plosives dead.


    Just saying.


    Those things are expensive so it may be worth while to suggest to the singer that they stop making the mic go splat and just do it that way.




    #11
    spacealf
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    Re:Strategies for Dealing with Plosives 2012/04/13 08:13:00 (permalink)
    >>>>The sound off axis is not as good as the on axis sound.<<<< Quoted upabove in a post. I don't think it sounds any different. Just don't want your jaw in the recording, jawing the mic. And yes, they make metal pop filters now, I guess they work I have one, so I guess it works.

     
     
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    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:Strategies for Dealing with Plosives 2012/04/13 08:21:48 (permalink)

    "Singing off axis is not a good strategy either. Vocalists find it hard for a start, they tend to want to sing on axis which sounds better usually and is the more correct thing to do. Also if you are off axis you only have to move slightly and the plosive might harm you again. The sound off axis is not as good as the on axis sound."



    All the great singers know to turn their head.

    It's instinctive and born from their inherent knowledge of what sounds good and what sounds horrible*

    I rarely find a need for a pop filter.


    *If a singer isn't self correcting their plosives then they must not have much interest in what their singing sounds like.





    #13
    NW Smith
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    Re:Strategies for Dealing with Plosives 2012/04/13 08:51:54 (permalink)
    Obviously, it's best to avoid plosives when recording - but if some got into your recording, then there is a simple way to get rid of them. Use a high pass filter on the Plosive. Play around with the low cut frequency and see the results.

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Strategies for Dealing with Plosives 2012/04/13 09:07:25 (permalink)
    I use a pop filter, and sing off axis on the plosive. You have to be paying attention to the words to be able to get the plosives off axis while singing the rest on axis.  Then, it might be a case of not being into the song as much as one would like to be to capture the emotion. 

    Singing techniques and a good pop filter go a long way toward eliminating them.  

    As has been said though, even a pop filter won't stop them all 100% of the time. 

    Case in point: I recorded a female vocalist and we ended up with a few plosives in the final takes. 

    I realized this after the session was done. To get her back to fix the few plosives was not too likely any time soon so I had to play with the tracks and see what I could figure out. 

    Here was the solution:  I stopped the time line right before the plosive. I zoomed in close enough to see where it was.  I dragged across the timeline in the precise area of the plosive and used the audio effect to reduce the volume by 2 db.  I applied the effect and played it back...... still too prominent, so I repeated the process until the plosive sounded normal and natural.  Then I backed the time line up a few measures so I could hear it in context.  If it sounded good I saved the project and moved to the next one. 

    This process worked well for me.  When I was done the vocal track sounded fine. 

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    Jeff Evans
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    Re:Strategies for Dealing with Plosives 2012/04/13 09:17:26 (permalink)
    I do agree that you can certainly control plosives with off axis singing etc and I don't disagree with Mike on this one. What I was saying is that the pop filter in a good way is a safety net and if a singer can control their plosives with careful head placement who am I to tell them otherwise. And the sound slightly off axis is not that different either so it is very workable. But should they not quite contain it then I like having the pop filter there to stop it and it usually does.

    If you record say 4 vocalists at once and you don't have that many pop filters then it can become an issue.

    It is interesting reading how others deal with it. I find that using a fairly steep HP filter in an editor is very effective. I think it is important indentifying the exact area that needs to be treated with the HP filter and putting the sound back to normal as quickly as you can. The plosive is pretty short lived in most situations.

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    trimph1
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    Re:Strategies for Dealing with Plosives 2012/04/13 09:37:18 (permalink)
    I've got good results with pop filters and vocal placement myself...that and enunciation helps...don't need to emphasize that much when singing...

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    Bonzos Ghost
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    Re:Strategies for Dealing with Plosives 2012/04/13 14:04:44 (permalink)
    Pop filter + don't sing directly into the mic. Position the mic a little higher (or lower) or else sing slightly off to one side.
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    krizrox
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    Re:Strategies for Dealing with Plosives 2012/04/17 13:51:55 (permalink)
    popper stoppers , positioning and proper mic techniques are the answer for everything EXCEPT those who have to hold the mic in their hands (screamo metal singers)or on-stage live use (the op didn't specify). The garden variety commercial pop filters aren't expensive and I've got a couple here going on 15 years old. Even a simple foam wind screen is better than nothing. That stupid pencil trick I've seen people recommend is a waste of time. And stupid. ha ha. After all that, the only thing left to do is to roll up your sleeves and get in there and surgically remove the annoyances.
    post edited by krizrox - 2012/04/17 13:53:17

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