tindog13
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Studio Instruments
Maybe I just don't get it, as a matter of fact, I'm sure that's it... I'll set up the situ... I am recording an original tune and want to lay down a bass track, the keyboard I have does not really have an appropriate (read: pleasing) bass patch for this song... I have opened up Studio Instruments and find some nice sounds, but I'm not sure how to play them into my song... the "patterns" are of no use to me, can't really even imagine them ever being useful, but that's what the tutorials I find talk about mostly, how to arrange the patterns and save and tune, all the stuff you can learn easily enough just playing around with the VI. So how do I play a bass line for my particular tune with Studio Instruments, can I trigger the sounds with midi from my keyboard? Or is it strictly a pattern based system?
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RobertB
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Re: Studio Instruments
2014/04/19 21:36:55
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Yes, you can trigger SI from your MIDI keyboard. I rarely, if ever, use the included patterns. Just select the keyboard as the input in the MIDI track. Your keyboard(or the MIDI port it is connected to) must be enabled in Edit>MIDI Devices. Also, input echo must be turned on in the track for you to hear what you are playing. SI Bass has a limited range, so not all keys will sound a note.
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sharke
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Re: Studio Instruments
2014/04/20 03:19:08
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You can also draw the notes into the piano roll if you'd rather work like that instead of playing it on your keyboard. Or you can play the part on your keyboard and then edit your performance in the piano roll later. Or if like me you're a crap keyboard player, you can simply bang the rhythm of the part on one note of your keyboard and then go into the piano roll view and move the notes into the correct pitches. Loads of different ways to do this!
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Kev999
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Re: Studio Instruments
2014/04/20 18:46:48
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tindog13 ... the "patterns" are of no use to me, can't really even imagine them ever being useful, but that's what the tutorials I find talk about mostly, how to arrange the patterns and save and tune...
Same here. I gave up on patterns years ago. I don't see how it would be possible to find the exact thing you were looking for in less time than it would take to make it yourself.
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tindog13
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Re: Studio Instruments
2014/04/21 19:41:52
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Great suggestions, I'll give it a try
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tindog13
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Re: Studio Instruments
2014/04/24 14:20:22
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Midi is a mystery to me, no matter how much I read on it and play with it... I can choose my keyboard as input, but I don't see where or how to choose the SI sound banks to trigger.
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jason216
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Re: Studio Instruments
2014/04/24 14:45:25
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I do a lot of this and I don't use my keyboard for my bass sounds in the final mixes. I go get samples in Reason or use Kontakt, or use the Cakewalk basses. My method is simple 1. I use my keyboard to play and create the bass part on a midi track 2. Open up and insert a Cakewalk Bass 3. Copy and paste the midi track into the Cakewalk Bass track you created (no need even listening to the pre-loaded stuff it usually doesn't relate to your original music...I can see using those loops to practice or flesh out ideas but once you actually start writing...create a bass line) 4. Mute the original midi bass track so all you hear is the Bass track you pasted to...it's now a track you can use in your final mix. I like to save and keep the original, muted midi file right there in the song in case I want to change them later...then I just erase and re-paste the new part back into the Cakewalk Bass track) Voila...your part should play fine and you can mess with the tones and pickup selection using the interface the Bass has...(plus any EQ, or compression from the FX bin inserted in the track. Have fun Jason216
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Cactus Music
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Re: Studio Instruments
2014/04/24 14:47:38
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You need to insert a soft synth. Then you set the input of a midi track to receive your controller, you assign the output of the midi track to the soft synth, There are different variations on midi tracks and how they relate to the soft synth so you will be best off reading the tutorials and help files about the subject. This is a simple process once you get the jist of it. Patterns are for people who do not play an instrument to use, if you know how to play a bass line on the keyboard then you will have no problem. With midi you can even slow the tempo down at first and play to a click track, My self I will record my scratch vocals and a guitar using a simple drum groove or the metronome. Then I add the bass. I used to use midi bass but switched to real. My first midi bass track was on an Atari 35 years ago. Nothing much has changed since about the process other than VST soft synths instead of outboard gear.
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jason216
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Re: Studio Instruments
2014/04/24 14:54:23
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Cactus - I agree and have been using Cakewalk since DOS lol...It's really handy to slow your track down to do stuff you couldn't play otherwise...I don't even start messing with any audio tracks until all my midi stuff is done...That way I can get the music done at whichever tempo I need in order to play it...then do all soft-synth inserting, and any audio stuff last like guitars, vocals etc...For me..this works fine Jason216
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Cactus Music
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Re: Studio Instruments
2014/04/24 15:18:57
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Even if I start a song with audio, I can still cheat playing a midi part with the slower tempo trick, Just mute all audio so it doesn't play. But make damn sure you remember your original tempo or it all goes out of sync. Worst case is you redo the audio. I have 100's of my old midi backing tracks I made myself I'm re-doing to real bass etc. I listen to the originals and wonder why nobody threw tomatoes at me for boring sound quality. Back then it sounded great! Why is that? But I do like you when I can and get the song going with midi first. So much easier to edit and change the arrangements, keys and tempo.
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tindog13
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Re: Studio Instruments
2014/04/25 09:58:31
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Haven't had a chance to try "jason's" method yet, but cactus' method works, however, I do get a latency kind of response... if I mess with my local, when I press the key I get the bass as well as a drum sound... not sure what's up with that... also, still trying to figure out how to bend a bass note, the keyboard has no bend/pitch wheel.
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jason216
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Re: Studio Instruments
2014/04/25 10:20:00
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Tindog13, one of the reasons I do my midi work that way is I had latency issues when using the soft-synths to play the parts I'm creating. Using the keyboard to create the midi parts then assigning things later to a soft-synth gets rid of that problem for me. Remember...don't get impatient to hear your final results while your creating. One of the joys of midi is the ability to change your sounds, even 20 years later, to the current available soft-synths of the day...truly cool...You will develop your "go to" sounds after a while and things will get faster once you know what they will sound like in the finished product. On bending the bass note...This is something I do, and what the loops available to you can provide...I have listened to all the bass loops that come with Cakewalk and have written down the ones that do cool little flourishes that are hard to re-create on keyboards, whether you have a mod wheel or not, somethings are just hard to do sooo... I add a 2nd Cakewalk bass into the mix just to find the add-ons I want to use...example...say I'm at the end of a bass part on the 4th or eight bar where I want a little bass thingy...well I go to the bass loop library and find the "specific" little flourish and edit it out (change the key to fit your song if you need to)...now I have this cool little bass thingy I just add into the original part. I do this with drums as well...You really can't do fills on a keyboard and get them to sound like a real drummer so I never do fills. I'll find a fill that sounds cool and sounds like a real drummer did it and just cut that fill out, that way I get to use my hi hat, kick and snare that I created for the main parts, and just add the things that you can't do well on a keyboard. I know this is time consuming at first 'till you get to know your loop libraries, but it's real effective in making things sound real. I occasionally will use an Acid loop or some other file but you have to EQ those to sound like the Cakewalk bass parts and sometimes that's hard to do...but if you're only using the Cakewalk bass soft-synth only...you won't have that issue. Hey Cactus - I have had the ..."Oh Sh**...what was the original tempo...?" thing happen to me before, especially when I bring the midi tracks into another program so I started naming all my tunes thusly... Stairway To Heaven b104... the small "b" is like a quarter note and the number is the tempo used...You'll never have that happen again. Keep writing Jason216
post edited by jason216 - 2014/04/25 10:34:32
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tindog13
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Re: Studio Instruments
2014/04/25 11:48:04
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I appreciate the help, unfortunately, the only way I know how to do this stuff is to lay down a keyboard or gtr part to click and start playing the other parts. I was just hoping to be able to slide some bass parts and improve my array of sounds beyond what my keyboard offers... but it won't work for me with the latency. I prefer to play as if I'm recording analog. Midi confounds me. I can spend half a day figuring it out, then try to to do it exactly the same way later and something is different and it doesn't work, another half a day gone and little accomplished. Local on or off, echo on or off in whatever combination, channels, omni, ins, outs, throughs, assigning which or how to a track... it all boggles me, and never seems to work the same one session to the next. Whenever I start mucking with midi, my keyboard starts playing sounds I don't want or even two sounds at once, like a bass and drum patch at the same time, once I fix it, suddenly nothing is going to X3... sheesh, give me a portastudio. I'm sure I'll keeping asking cause this is what I have to work with... bummer, never had to deal with latency recording analog. I'm slowly making it work, getting some decent recordings done, but I spend so much more time fighting the process than being creative.
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RobertB
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Re: Studio Instruments
2014/04/25 23:34:56
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Tindog, do you have an interface, or are you using your computer's built-in sound card? When recording MIDI/softsynths live, you are entirely at the mercy of your sound cards performance. The MIDI data is recorded on time, but you won't hear the sound until your sound card/interface has processed the audio output of the synth. Does your keyboard have the ability to change the MIDI channel it is transmitting on? If so, you can use this to your advantage. Give us some details on your setup. It looks like you may be fighting some basic stuff, and we can help you better if we know what you are working with. The best approach is to list your system specs in your signature, as you see in many of our posts. That way, it is always available.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Studio Instruments
2014/04/26 00:11:11
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Agreed what Robert say's. I got a feeling your trying to work without an interface. Possibly a USB keyboard controller. You need good audio drivers to run Sonar and only then will you not have latency. The other thing that can cause midi latency is having certain audio efx plug ins running. Best to bypass all efxs while tracking. What you are describing is related to both a lack of proper audio drivers and having a handle on the input echo icons. If two icons are toggled then those 2 tracks output will be triggered. You only want the track your going to record to have the input echo on. You might benefit from the Sonar Power Books. I'm just wading my way though one myself and it's like Sonar for Dummies. Easy to read and not as mind boggling as the Users Manual.
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tindog13
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Re: Studio Instruments
2014/04/26 02:26:47
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I'm using the Presonus Audiobox USB, and yes, I'm sure the keyboard has that capability... it's a Casio Privia Px-300, with the GM sound bank.
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