Marshall
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Sudden dramatic volume drop - Garritan/Aria player in Sonar
I insert an instance of the Aria Player, and load a single instrument patch from the Garritan Personal Orchestra. Everything works fine. Then I hit play, and play along with the one other (audio) track in the project - still OK.
I hit the space bar to stop the transport.
At this point, the volume on the Aria drops dramatically - it is still there, but it is ridiculously quiet. The fader is up, there is no automation...I thought this might be a corrupt project, so I have opened a brand new blank project, which has only the Aria and one audio track.
Same issue! Any ideas please?
I tried inserting an instance of DimPro directly (not through the Aria), and it works normally.
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promidi
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Re: Sudden dramatic volume drop - Garritan/Aria player in Sonar
2017/10/17 08:57:35
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☄ Helpfulby msorrels 2017/10/17 11:27:09
I think many GPO patches respond to CC1 as volume. Therefore if you set select Preferences | Project | MIDI "Zero Controllers When Play Stops" , then Cakewalk will issue a CC1 = 0 when you stop the transport. If you have loaded a patch where CC1 effects volume this may explain it.
What I have done with GPO5 is made a template that has CC1 = 127 event at the start of every MIDI that drives the ARIA player and that has the "Zero Controllers When Play Stops" setting disabled. Remember that setting is a per project settings. That's why I save a template.
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Marshall
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Re: Sudden dramatic volume drop - Garritan/Aria player in Sonar
2017/10/17 12:05:05
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This is very helpful - I am an audio guy who is only now trying to get into MIDI. So, I can set up a track template - How do I set CC1 = 127 as per your post? If I disable "Zero Controllers When Play Stops", will this affect anything else that I do?
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dcumpian
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Re: Sudden dramatic volume drop - Garritan/Aria player in Sonar
2017/10/17 12:16:02
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Marshall
This is very helpful - I am an audio guy who is only now trying to get into MIDI. So, I can set up a track template - How do I set CC1 = 127 as per your post? If I disable "Zero Controllers When Play Stops", will this affect anything else that I do?
Yes, it will. Mod wheel data won't be reset to zero, nor will pitch bend messages. The correct way to handle these situations is to do what Promidi recommends: Add a base starting point for every midi CC that you need. This is much easier to do if you have a midi controller that can send various CC messages that you can record. Regards, Dan
Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
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promidi
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Re: Sudden dramatic volume drop - Garritan/Aria player in Sonar
2017/10/17 12:33:44
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☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2017/10/17 13:05:58
Marshall
This is very helpful - I am an audio guy who is only now trying to get into MIDI. So, I can set up a track template - How do I set CC1 = 127 as per your post? If I disable "Zero Controllers When Play Stops", will this affect anything else that I do?
The quickest way to enter CC1 = 127 in all of your MIDI tracks controlling the various GPO5 tracks is as follows 1) Move the NOW pointer to where you want the CC1 events inserted 2) Select all the MIDI tracks you wish to place the CC1 events 3) Right click on the time value on the transport and copy - you'll need this for the "Insert Series of Controllers" dialogue box 4) Go to the menu item Insert | Series of Controllers 5) In the "Insert Series of Controllers" dialogue box select the following Select Controller Enter Controller 1 as the Number Make sure the start and end are 127 Paste the time copied previously into From and To fields 6) Hit OK Now all of your selected MIDI tracks will have CC1 = 127 at the NOW pointer I know there are a lot of steps, but the above method is easier than entering MIDI track at a time. With the "Zero Controllers When Play Stops" setting, it's easy to switch back on if something is adversely affected. Hope that helps
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Marshall
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Re: Sudden dramatic volume drop - Garritan/Aria player in Sonar
2017/10/17 14:52:03
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Oh boy.
All I want to do is have a nice clarinet sound in my song. I hoped and expected that GPO5 would allow me to do that without, excuse the expression, screwing around like this.
Thank you for taking the time to give me step by step instructions. As I have already declared, I don't understand midi, and whilst I will be able to follow your instructions parrot fashion, I don't understand what I'm doing.
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Fred Holmes
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Re: Sudden dramatic volume drop - Garritan/Aria player in Sonar
2017/10/17 16:04:27
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Hi Marshall, With most Garritan programs it's important to remember that the CC1 value provides not just a volume change but also changes the expression of the sound. Example- a clarinet sounds different when the player forces more air into the mouthpiece. Same thing for almost all instruments ' mot just a volume change it's timber and quality of sound. You should be using the Mod wheel level in the same way a instrument player changes how he controls his instrument to get the full range of expressive sounds. Using a single CC1 level such as CC1=127 will only give you the sound of a clarinet at ffff Read the manual and you'll better able to utilize all the complex sounds that Garritan instruments are capable of "By far the most important controller in Garritan instrument libraries is the modulation wheel (MIDI controller #1), which is used to control the volume and timbre of all sustaining Garritan instruments" Here's a link to the Makemusic site that explains the importance of varying the Mod wheel CC1 control throughout the entire performance http://usermanuals.finalemusic.com/Finale2014Win/Content/Finale/GarritanHP7.htm Best of luck, Fred
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michael diemer
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Re: Sudden dramatic volume drop - Garritan/Aria player in Sonar
2017/10/17 17:02:49
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I use CC7 for base volume, CC11 for expression or on-the-fly changes. With GPO, CC11 acts as fine-tuning for the volume. (On EWSO and other libraries, it acts as a timbral effect). I use Event List to enter CC events. Just go there, hit the insert key on your keyboard, and enter the necessary data. I start all inst's off with CC7=100. I adjust them as needed. Clarinets in GPO, while wonderful, are loud, so I usually have to reduce the starting volume to 80 or 90. Others may need more than 100. It's a nice way to do a little mixing from the getgo. One other thing: with GPO, CC11 doesn't work on percussion, so use CC7 all the way through.
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MarioD
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Re: Sudden dramatic volume drop - Garritan/Aria player in Sonar
2017/10/17 17:24:44
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I use a slightly different method when I use Garritan's software and my keyboard controller. At the start of each Garritan track I write in my starting CC1 setting. Then as I am playing I will use the mod wheel as needed or I will draw in my CC1 data after the fact.
I find Garritan's software much easier to use with my wind controller. You may want to investigate using a breath controller. Garritan's stuff works much better with breath control, CC2, IMHO. YMMV
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Marshall
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Re: Sudden dramatic volume drop - Garritan/Aria player in Sonar
2017/10/18 09:09:35
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promidi
Marshall
This is very helpful - I am an audio guy who is only now trying to get into MIDI. So, I can set up a track template - How do I set CC1 = 127 as per your post? If I disable "Zero Controllers When Play Stops", will this affect anything else that I do?
The quickest way to enter CC1 = 127 in all of your MIDI tracks controlling the various GPO5 tracks is as follows
1) Move the NOW pointer to where you want the CC1 events inserted
2) Select all the MIDI tracks you wish to place the CC1 events
3) Right click on the time value on the transport and copy - you'll need this for the "Insert Series of Controllers" dialogue box
4) Go to the menu item Insert | Series of Controllers
5) In the "Insert Series of Controllers" dialogue box select the following
Select Controller
Enter Controller 1 as the Number
Make sure the start and end are 127
Paste the time copied previously into From and To fields
6) Hit OK
Now all of your selected MIDI tracks will have CC1 = 127 at the NOW pointer
I know there are a lot of steps, but the above method is easier than entering MIDI track at a time.
With the "Zero Controllers When Play Stops" setting, it's easy to switch back on if something is adversely affected.
Hope that helps
I have followed this as best I can, but it has made no difference - same results when the transport stops. I guess it is step one that I don't understand. I don't want the volume to drop when transport stops...I'm not sure how this relates to "Move the NOW pointer to where you want the CC1 events inserted". I have selected "Zero Controllers When Play Stops" in preferences. Sorry to be so stupid - I really appreciate your help.
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michael diemer
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Re: Sudden dramatic volume drop - Garritan/Aria player in Sonar
2017/10/19 21:12:59
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Have you put a CC7 or CC1 event at the very beginning of your piece? That will set the modwheel so it is not zero. you need to put in the CC event, AND a value for it. Try 80-100. Do this for each inst.
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Marshall
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Re: Sudden dramatic volume drop - Garritan/Aria player in Sonar
2017/10/21 12:01:22
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Thanks for your attempts to help me. However, this is still absolutely doing my head in. I am now using Omnisphere, and I am still getting what seem to be randomized, unexplained drops in volume on playback. I say random because I can be playing back a section and sometimes the volume drops and sometimes it doesn't at exactly the same place in the timeline.
In an effort to control this (and it wasn't what I wanted to do), I bounced the track to audio. And the same thing happens in the audio track. In my project I have "Zero Controllers When Play Stops" deselected.
I don't understand how to insert CC events so that this does not occur (I think this is what I have to do) - can someone tell me click by click? I have tried searching. Also, please see my response to promidi's post above.
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dcumpian
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Re: Sudden dramatic volume drop - Garritan/Aria player in Sonar
2017/10/23 12:50:57
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Marshall
Thanks for your attempts to help me. However, this is still absolutely doing my head in. I am now using Omnisphere, and I am still getting what seem to be randomized, unexplained drops in volume on playback. I say random because I can be playing back a section and sometimes the volume drops and sometimes it doesn't at exactly the same place in the timeline.
In an effort to control this (and it wasn't what I wanted to do), I bounced the track to audio. And the same thing happens in the audio track. In my project I have "Zero Controllers When Play Stops" deselected.
I don't understand how to insert CC events so that this does not occur (I think this is what I have to do) - can someone tell me click by click? I have tried searching. Also, please see my response to promidi's post above.
This might help: https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR&language=3&help=EditingMIDI.44.html After you do it once or twice, it will make a lot more sense. Regards, Dan
Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
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michael diemer
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Re: Sudden dramatic volume drop - Garritan/Aria player in Sonar
2017/10/23 16:29:02
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To use Event List for CC events: Go to Event List. Hit "insert" on your (typing) keyboard. A box will come up. Choose type of event (it could be a note, text or, what you need, a CC event. Put in channel number, type of CC event (use CC1 or CC7 - volume). Next, add the Value for the CC event. This is a midi event, so it ranges from 0-127. That should it. Make sure you do it at the very start of the piece, so the modwheel will set permanently to that value. Then, use CC11 for on-the-fly adjustments.
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Marshall
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Re: Sudden dramatic volume drop - Garritan/Aria player in Sonar
2017/10/23 16:49:30
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michael diemer
To use Event List for CC events: Go to Event List. Hit "insert" on your (typing) keyboard. A box will come up. Choose type of event (it could be a note, text or, what you need, a CC event. Put in channel number, type of CC event (use CC1 or CC7 - volume). Next, add the Value for the CC event. This is a midi event, so it ranges from 0-127. That should it. Make sure you do it at the very start of the piece, so the modwheel will set permanently to that value. Then, use CC11 for on-the-fly adjustments.
Thanks - I must have a mental block - After I hit insert on my typing keyboard, under the "Kind" header I get the option of "Controller". I select that but there is no option to select CC1 or CC7, i.e., the type of CC event.
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michael diemer
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Re: Sudden dramatic volume drop - Garritan/Aria player in Sonar
2017/10/24 05:04:56
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Sorry Marshall, I was winging it: here's what to do: Go to Event List. Double click at the point in the music where you want to insert a controller event. For example, to insert one at the start of the piece, double click on the first row. In the box that comes up, choose Controller from the list on the left. Hit "OK." In the column immediately to the right of the word "control," change the number to CC1 or CC7. There is some argument about which to use, but I have always used 7, and it works. Then, in the next column over, adjust the value. 80 is a good starting point, but you can always change it. Do the same process to put in CC11 events. You need to put one in immediately. The CC7 will set your modwheel in Aria and keep it there. You use CC11 after that for volume adjustments.
I've been using another DAW for awhile. I had to go back into Sonar (8.5) to refresh my memory!
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Marshall
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Re: Sudden dramatic volume drop - Garritan/Aria player in Sonar
2017/10/24 07:40:31
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Michael - thank you, I have got that.
So, if I am inputting midi data from my controller keyboard I have my right hand playing the notes and my left hand on the mod wheel. That works fine, so far so good.
However, if I let go of the mod wheel completely, then I find that the volume is so low I can hardly hear it when I am playing the notes, but on playback, the same notes are easily loud enough.
I often use MIDI Guitar II to input notes. So having my left hand on the mod wheel is not an option, and therefore the volume whilst inputting is too low. On playback however, the volume is much louder.
I tried inputting CC1 = 127 rather than 80, but whilst inputting, it is still not loud enough.
How can I increase the volume on input so I can her it properly?
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dcumpian
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Re: Sudden dramatic volume drop - Garritan/Aria player in Sonar
2017/10/24 12:40:12
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Marshall
Michael - thank you, I have got that.
So, if I am inputting midi data from my controller keyboard I have my right hand playing the notes and my left hand on the mod wheel. That works fine, so far so good.
However, if I let go of the mod wheel completely, then I find that the volume is so low I can hardly hear it when I am playing the notes, but on playback, the same notes are easily loud enough.
I often use MIDI Guitar II to input notes. So having my left hand on the mod wheel is not an option, and therefore the volume whilst inputting is too low. On playback however, the volume is much louder.
I tried inputting CC1 = 127 rather than 80, but whilst inputting, it is still not loud enough.
How can I increase the volume on input so I can her it properly?
Gaffer tape on the mod wheel also works...  Dan
Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
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Marshall
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Re: Sudden dramatic volume drop - Garritan/Aria player in Sonar
2017/10/24 15:30:43
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Yep, I can see that gaffer tape would be a solution! Any slightly more high tech suggestions would also be welcome 😀
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michael diemer
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Re: Sudden dramatic volume drop - Garritan/Aria player in Sonar
2017/10/24 16:31:14
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Unforunately, my suggestion is only for midi. Can't help with audio as I don't do it, only midi!
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michael diemer
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Re: Sudden dramatic volume drop - Garritan/Aria player in Sonar
2017/10/24 17:48:23
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Wait, I think you'e talking about the modwheel on your keyboard, right? Mine doesn't have one. Thus, I just set it in Event List and make on the fly adjustments there with CC11. you're actually doing it the right way, the way GPO was intended to be used! I guess I haven't been very helpful. You need some other folks to chime in here!
michael diemer Intel Quad Core i7-3770 Ivy Bridge 32 GB ram 1TB Western Digital Black X2 Microsoft Windows 7 Pro 64 UR22 interface Bandlab Cakewalk/Sonar 8.5 Studio GPO-EWQLSO Gold-Vienna SP ED-Cinematic Strings 2
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