Marshall
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SuperTap question
Hi I have Waves SuperTap Stereo version inserted on a lead guitar track like this:  As you can see, I have rotate on delays 1 and 2 panned hard left and right, but I am getting a mono output. The track interleave is set to stereo. Anyone tell me why I am not hearing stereo ping pong? Sure it's something simple!
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chuckebaby
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Re: SuperTap question
2016/12/05 07:11:04
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you have 6 taps in this preset. I would start a basic test with only 2 taps. turn up the taps gain a little bit as well.
One thing you didn't really mention is your routing. is your guitar track being sent to the master bus ?
Or a guitar bus ? im guessing there is no sends, its just in the guitar tracks FX bin ?
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celopadua
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Re: SuperTap question
2016/12/05 07:37:30
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Only delays 1 and 2 are actually active.
But yes, a screenshot of your Console with your routing would also help!
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bitflipper
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Re: SuperTap question
2016/12/05 08:49:31
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Assuming the guitar track is mono, have you tried the mono/stereo version of SuperTap?
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Marshall
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Re: SuperTap question
2016/12/05 09:52:17
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The track is routed to the master bus. Also, and I should have said, the output meters in SuperTap respond correctly - i.e. you can see the left and right channels moving independently, not in unison. No sends, I just have SuperTap in the effects bin.
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bluzdog
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Re: SuperTap question
2016/12/05 11:01:16
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I have read somewhere that the mono/stereo version of Waves plugs doesn't work in Sonar. I usually use SuperTap as a send/return effect without issue.
Rocky
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Marshall
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Re: SuperTap question
2016/12/05 11:38:05
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bluzdog
I have read somewhere that the mono/stereo version of Waves plugs doesn't work in Sonar. I usually use SuperTap as a send/return effect without issue.
Rocky
Yes, I tried this earlier and it worked - guess that's what I'll do  Thanks.
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Keni
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Re: SuperTap question
2016/12/05 11:46:53
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Mono-stereo works in sonar
I've been playing with this plugin a bit the last few days and find it difficult to get what I want...
I'm sure that's just me, but just saying...
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Marshall
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Re: SuperTap question
2016/12/05 12:10:12
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☄ Helpfulby rwheeler 2016/12/05 14:16:09
Keni
Mono-stereo works in sonar
I've been playing with this plugin a bit the last few days and find it difficult to get what I want...
I'm sure that's just me, but just saying...
Groove 3 have some excellent videos on its use.
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rwheeler
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Re: SuperTap question
2016/12/05 14:22:20
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Marshall, thanks for pointing to the Groove3 videos. I had missed them since they are tucked inside a larger series on Waves products. I'm very glad to have an annual G3 subscription that makes it easy to take advantage of any of their courses (after identifying the content in the first place). The SuperTap content is very well done.
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Dave76
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Re: SuperTap question
2016/12/05 15:07:31
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I don't know what you all are seeing but mono-to-stereo absolutely does NOT work correctly with SONAR. The plug-in will process as stereo but then the right channel gets thrown out and SONAR plays back the left as mono. This is easy to confirm with SuperTap by dragging the direct signal back and forth and noticing that it goes silent as it is panned right. If you are having difficulty getting what you want out of the plug-in, this is likely why. Certain combos of plug-ins might change this behavior slightly -- I think I may have seen chains that resulted in mono-to-stereo summing the output to mono -- but I haven't found a combo that ever produces correct results. The Stereo versions of the plug-ins with stereo interleave enabled will get you what you want.
Regarding the original post, I've had occasional issues where it seems like SONAR and the plug-in get out of sync with the stereo interleave settings. I've always found that disabling and re-enabling the plug-in gets it working correctly (using the SONAR on/off button -- don't know if host bypass does the same thing).
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bluzdog
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Re: SuperTap question
2016/12/05 16:00:10
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Marshall
Keni
Mono-stereo works in sonar
I've been playing with this plugin a bit the last few days and find it difficult to get what I want...
I'm sure that's just me, but just saying...
Groove 3 have some excellent videos on its use.
F.w.i.w....The SuperTap videos are part of the Groove 3 Waves Musicians Bundle tutorial. Rocky
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Sanderxpander
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Re: SuperTap question
2016/12/05 16:22:04
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There's really no need to use any mono versions at all of the Waves stuff. They are included mainly for legacy support but Sonar will automatically feed a mono signal into a stereo plugin correctly. So use the stereo version of SuperTap not the mono-to-stereo.
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Marshall
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Re: SuperTap question
2016/12/05 17:20:27
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This is worse than I thought - I can only get a mono output from the full stereo versions of both Waves Doubler and SuperTap when I use it as an insert. If I drag the plugin to a bus and send the signal there it works fine. This is not good, as I want totally different settings for voice, guitar etc and don't want to set up loads of unnecessary buses! All interleaves set to stereo.
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chuckebaby
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Re: SuperTap question
2016/12/05 20:13:25
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Marshall, Just gave this a test. I think you are correct. Supertap 6 (what you are using) is not panning correctly.
However, Supertap 2 stereo is working as it should. you can hear a big difference in the stereo spectrum by doing examples with either one. Tap 6 seems dead in the sides and only delaying in the middle.
Tap 2 Stereo is very broad an wide. ping pong is all there. Don't need a Groove 3 videos to figure this out.
Anyway. I hope this helps.
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celopadua
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Re: SuperTap question
2016/12/05 23:51:04
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Marshall
This is worse than I thought - I can only get a mono output from the full stereo versions of both Waves Doubler and SuperTap when I use it as an insert. If I drag the plugin to a bus and send the signal there it works fine. This is not good, as I want totally different settings for voice, guitar etc and don't want to set up loads of unnecessary buses! All interleaves set to stereo.
You should let both Sonar and Waves official supports know about this by submitting tickets.
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Marshall
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Re: SuperTap question
2016/12/06 06:32:20
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For me, neither SuperTap 2 or SuperTap 6 are working correctly, unless they are set up as sends. If anyone else wishes to verify their experience please do, and I will raise with Waves and Cakewalk support.
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celopadua
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Re: SuperTap question
2016/12/06 08:55:51
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I partially replicated your problem as described.
Mono/Stereo will only send out one signal, while Stereo seems to send both.
Is your guitar track mono? If so, interleave it to Stereo and the Stereo insert should work.
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bitflipper
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Re: SuperTap question
2016/12/06 09:28:44
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I can also confirm that none of the SuperTap variants output stereo when inserted on a mono track with a mono source, regardless of track interleave.
I'd suggest substituting the Sonitus Delay, assuming you just want a basic ping-pong delay without separate L/R EQ or panning, the only advantages SuperTap offers over the Sonitus.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: SuperTap question
2016/12/06 10:42:13
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Huh weird I never noticed. I mostly use H-Delay though.
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Dave76
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Re: SuperTap question
2016/12/06 12:49:47
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I have no issues with SuperTap or any other Waves Stereo plug-in used in the FX bin on a mono track in SONAR with stereo interleave enabled. They work exactly as intended. I'm currently up to date with the latest releases of SONAR and Waves but have been using these plug-ins for a year or two with no issues.
I just tested by creating a new project, enabling an input with a guitar plugged in, adding SuperTap 6 Stereo and panning two delays hard left and right. All worked fine with no tricks. Do you have any other plug-ins on the track that could be complicating things? Have you tried testing with a fresh empty project?
This won't work in the Clip FX bin but I don't think any stereo effects work on mono tracks in the Clip FX bin because these are processed prior to interleave according to the signal flow documentation.
Again, do not bother with the Mono-To-Stereo plug-ins as these do not work correctly in SONAR and, as far as I know, never have. I could've sworn that I've seen official confirmation of this at some point (from Waves if I'm remembering correctly) but I can't find it now.
Like I mentioned before, sometimes SONAR and Waves get out of sync when you add a Stereo plug-in and then switch the interleave. That's all I can imagine could be the problem. Toggling the effect off and on again usually solves this though maybe you could try deleting it and re-adding it completely after ensuring stereo interleave is on?
I am using the VST3 versions if that matters.
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Marshall
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Re: SuperTap question
2016/12/06 15:41:33
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Dave76
I just tested by creating a new project, enabling an input with a guitar plugged in, adding SuperTap 6 Stereo and panning two delays hard left and right. All worked fine with no tricks. Do you have any other plug-ins on the track that could be complicating things? Have you tried testing with a fresh empty project?
I tested on a new project and SuperTap 6 Stereo worked perfectly. I then went back to the existing project - no other effects on the track, sent direct to the master, interweave on. Tried switching plugin on and off, tried switching interleave to mono and back. It does not work - just mono. Completely stumped.
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Dave76
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Re: SuperTap question
2016/12/08 13:09:15
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Marshall
I tested on a new project and SuperTap 6 Stereo worked perfectly.
I then went back to the existing project - no other effects on the track, sent direct to the master, interweave on. Tried switching plugin on and off, tried switching interleave to mono and back. It does not work - just mono. Completely stumped.
Wow, interesting. Is it just SuperTap that doesn't work on that project or do the bundled SONAR delays do the same thing? Nothing potentially strange with that project that would reduce it down to mono? Does "pan" on tracks work? If you are able to reduce that project down to a minimal example and get it to Cakewalk, maybe they can fix it if it's a bug.
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Marshall
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Re: SuperTap question
2016/12/08 14:09:59
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Dave76
Marshall
I tested on a new project and SuperTap 6 Stereo worked perfectly.
I then went back to the existing project - no other effects on the track, sent direct to the master, interweave on. Tried switching plugin on and off, tried switching interleave to mono and back. It does not work - just mono. Completely stumped.
Wow, interesting. Is it just SuperTap that doesn't work on that project or do the bundled SONAR delays do the same thing? Nothing potentially strange with that project that would reduce it down to mono? Does "pan" on tracks work? If you are able to reduce that project down to a minimal example and get it to Cakewalk, maybe they can fix it if it's a bug.
Ha! Sonitus Delay, Cakewalk Tempo Delay, BT Tempo delay all work correctly. Both Waves SuperTap and Waves H Delay are in glorious mono - a pattern is emerging, BUT both Waves plugins work correctly in this project as Sends (not as Inserts) and they behave correctly in the new blank project.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: SuperTap question
2016/12/08 14:29:49
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Using VST2 or VST3? Does it make a difference?
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chuckebaby
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Re: SuperTap question
2016/12/08 14:57:06
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did you ever receive a reply from Waves support ? They are usually pretty fast at replying.
I was going to myself, but you had mentioned you were going to.
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Marshall
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Re: SuperTap question
2016/12/08 15:29:01
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chuckebaby
did you ever receive a reply from Waves support ? They are usually pretty fast at replying.
I was going to myself, but you had mentioned you were going to.
I haven't yet, but will do now based on the evidence gathered. Will report back.
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Marshall
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Re: SuperTap question
2016/12/09 17:06:51
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My message to Waves tech was:
I have raised this on The Cakewalk Sonar forum (topic is SuperTap Question). This was last updated a few minutes ago and the general consensus is that I should raise it with you.
In a nutshell, I have a Sonar project where if I use SuperTap Stereo 6, or H Delay Stereo as an inset, the output is in mono. The track has Interleave set to stereo, it is a mono source, sent directly to the master bus with no other insert effects or sends.
I can drag the same instance of either of the Waves plugins to a bus and create a send from the above mentioned track, and it works perfectly, i.e. in stereo rather than mono. (Taps 1 and 2 are panned hard Right and Left and it is obvious)
On the same track, the Sonitus Delay, Cakewalk Delay and BT Tempo all respond correctly in stereo as insert effects.
The odd thing is that I have created a brand new 'test' project with nothing on it, and both Waves plugins performed correctly. However, there must be something wrong as the non-Waves delays are all working correctly on the original project whereas the Waves ones are not.
Finally, I have the same issue with Doubler 4 Stereo.
Their response:
I could not recreate this issue in our test machine.
It seems that what you are describing is a result of a corrupted session.
You have already mentioned that on a new session this does not happen and the stereo routing behaves normally.
You could try to verify that this session is corrupted:
Open other old sessions of Sonar and see if this issue remains or not.
Although, if those sessions were originally created on an older version of Sonar, you will have to verify there is complete version compatibility between them.
Also, On the same session, please try to open another Stereo Channel (from scratch) , add only a Stereo Waves plug-in and see if the issue persist.
Subsequently, I have created another track on the original project, added a Stereo Waves plugin and it works correctly!
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