Superior Drummer's MIDI drum loops don't map properly with my user-created drum map in X3

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csnack
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2015/04/30 05:03:05 (permalink)

Superior Drummer's MIDI drum loops don't map properly with my user-created drum map in X3

Hi everyone. I did post this in the Toontrack forum, but thought I'd put it here as well, since this also involves Sonar X3e. I'm having an issue with Toontrack's Superior Drummer MIDI mapping and the Toontrack MIDI drum pack loops in X3e. Basically, the Toontrack MIDI drum pack loops are not triggering properly with my user-defined/customized drum map in X3e. Some of the drum sounds in the MIDI loops, like the kick drum and hi-hat may trigger fine, but the snare and other drum sounds in the loops are "unmapped" and not being heard/triggered when using my user-created drum map in Sonar X3. If I use the default Avatar NY Superior Drummer map that's in Sonar X3 and the default MIDI mapping in Superior Drummer then the loops will trigger properly, but as soon as I switch to my user-created drum map and user-defined MIDI mapping in Superior Drummer (via the MIDI learn function), then the sounds from the MIDI drum pack do not trigger properly and some/most of the sounds in the loop end up "unmapped."

Is there any way I can use my own customized drum map and somehow have Toontrack's MIDI drum loops trigger correctly to my custom drum map? I mean there must be a way, other than having to manually move the unmapped sounds to where I think they should have mapped. 

In Sonar X3 I have created my own custom drum map so that in the Piano Roll view, when you change it to your user-created drum map in the Drum Map Manager you see a list of user-defined drum names. That's common knowledge to any power-user. But I created a very specific drum map that places the drum sounds on specific keys on my M-Audio Oxygen 61 MIDI keyboard for easy playability. In order to do that, I had to remap the sounds using the MIDI learn function inside of Superior Drummer itself. It was a very delicate procedure dealing with Sonar's Drum Map Manager and the Superior Drummer MIDI learn function. This took some time and I had to use a Note Name-to-MIDI Note Number chart. And it works great both on my MIDI keyboard and in Sonar X3 where the drum names look very neat and organized in my user-created map in the Piano Roll view - - until I want to audition any of the MIDI drum loops from the Superior Drummer NY MIDI drum pack, then some/most of the sounds end up "unmapped." Obviously there is a conflict between the way those MIDI drum pack loops were originally mapped by Toontrack and my user-created drum map. 

Is there any way to fix that? I would love to be able to use my user-defined drum map AND have the MIDI from Toontrack's drum packs be triggered properly by my map without having to manually move the unmapped sounds around. Anyway, sorry for the lengthy post, but perhaps this can help someone else out as well. Many thanks.
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    csnack
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    Re: Superior Drummer's MIDI drum loops don't map properly with my user-created drum map in 2015/04/30 21:37:21 (permalink)
    Update:  
    I solved my own problem with a work-around. Here's how I did it in case someone would search and find this helpful: 
    I use Superior Drummer 2.4.2 inside of Sonar X3e. My problem as already stated was that I had created a custom drum map in Sonar X3 that involved remapping the location of the drum sounds inside of Superior Drummer via SD's "learn" function. I did this so that I could place the drum sounds on very specific keys on my MIDI keyboard just the way I like them for easy/ergonomic playability. (The default SD NY drum map in Sonar and the default mapping in SD have the sounds sparsely placed all over the place on my MIDI keyboard and on the drum map on the screen, which I found very disorganized and some of the sounds weren't mapped on my keyboard at all). So the remapping in SD and custom drum map I made in Sonar worked just fine -- until I wanted to audition and drag and drop some of the MIDI drum loops that comes with SD. Toontrack had mapped the sounds in those loops to their own specific locations that were not sympathetic to my user-created drum map and so while auditioning the loops I would typically only hear kick drum and maybe hi hat and the rest of the sounds were unmapped/unheard or the wrong sound got triggered, like a tom instead of snare etc.  
    The work-around was to use two instances of Superior Drummer; one for my user-created drum map and the other strictly for auditioning the loops - and in each instance I have a different mapping scheme; the SD instance just for auditioning has the "General MIDI" (or whatever its called) mapping preset selected so that the Toontrack MIDI loops can be auditioned and triggered correctly - and the second instance of SD has my customized mapping preset selected that works with my user-created drum map in Sonar X3e. After I audition a loop and drag/drop it to the MIDI track that corresponds with that specific instance of SD and I see/hear where the notes should be mapped, I then manually drag that MIDI data from the "audition track" to the MIDI track that has my user-created drum map on it. Then, I have to manually move some of the notes that ultimately end up "unmapped" to their correct locations in the Piano Roll/Drum Map view in Sonar. And while that's somewhat a PITA to have to do, at least I am able to first audition the loops to see/hear where the individual drum notes should be triggered before I manually move the loop to the other track with my user-created drum map on it where I then have to manually move some of the unmapped/wrongly mapped drum notes to the correct notes. I think this is the only way to be able to have both a user-created drum map for assigning notes to specific keys on a MIDI keyboard AND be able to audition loops from Toontrack's MIDI packs and have them trigger correctly. If there is, in fact, another/better way then please let me know. Hope this helps someone.
    post edited by csnack - 2015/04/30 21:51:30
    #2
    mudgel
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    Re: Superior Drummer's MIDI drum loops don't map properly with my user-created drum map in 2015/05/07 00:24:19 (permalink)
    Why don't you audition the midi loops through the Sup Drummer browser? You seem to have gone to extraordinary lengths to complicate a really simple procedure. Just saying.

    Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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    csnack
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    Re: Superior Drummer's MIDI drum loops don't map properly with my user-created drum map in 2015/05/07 04:41:45 (permalink)
    Hey Mike. Thanks for pointing that out, as I wasn't using SD's browser but Sonar's. I now see that SD's browser is way better and you pointing that out has actually helped me in another area, so thanks. There's still the issue with the default mapping in SD and it's loops vs my user-created map, though. My custom drum map has moved things around for the sake of mapping the sounds to specific keys on a MIDI keyboard - and the mapping for SD's loops are not sympathetic to that, i.e. they don't "smartly" follow my mapping scheme and so when using my custom drum map to audition the loops, be it via Sonar's or SD's browser, some of the sounds get triggered incorrectly (tom instead of snare, e.g.) or don't trigger at all. When auditioning the loops in SD's browser I still have to flip back and forth between SD's default mapping preset so the loops trigger correctly, then adjust back to my custom preset when I'm ready to drag the loop over - and once that's done I still have to manually move some of the drum notes to the correct location in PRV to get them to trigger the right sound when using my custom drum map. The only way I can see getting around that is if SD had some kind of "smart" function that somehow followed my custom remapping. Does that makes sense, or am I still going way out of my way to do something simple (wouldn't be the first time)? Thank man
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    mudgel
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    Re: Superior Drummer's MIDI drum loops don't map properly with my user-created drum map in 2015/05/11 07:41:21 (permalink)
    Toontrack uses GM as the default mapping which is kind of a standard. You've chosen to do something for your own convenience but by doing that created a level of complexity not necessary.
    I guess if you want specific keys to play specific sounds that's the price you're going to have to pay.

    I have a cutout that goes ver the keyboard with the normal GM mapping on it so I can see whenever I want to play using a keyboard. I don't use a keyboard much as I pretty much use the Toontrack MIDI loops or do drum replacement if working with live drums.

    Have a look at Toontrack and see if they still have EzPlayer pro free as I use that. It works a little like ezkeys with a window that lets you put the midi loops together in a song format. It's like the browser part of SupDrummer with a track for creating songs.

    Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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