Sync between Logic and Sonar, Help!

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Rockman413
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2008/11/02 04:26:24 (permalink)

Sync between Logic and Sonar, Help!

I'm using MTC to sync my slave PC running Sonar to my master macbook pro running Logic 8.
Everything is fine except that when you press play in logic, it takes about 3 seconds to get sonar starting running. Any ways to kill this delay?

I've tried the delay setup in sync in logic, no use so far.
P.S. My Midi interface is 2*Motu Express 128
here's more:

When I start play in Logic, it takes about 3 seconds in Sonar to start playing.
But When I hit play in Sonar, Logic starts playing immediately!

Any setups in Sonar? And, think about how many times you'll hit play button in creating a song, multiply by 3 seconds can be a lot of time,wasting!
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    mudgel
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    RE: Sync between Logic and Sonar, Help! 2008/11/02 07:54:24 (permalink)

    If SONAR and Logic are correctly synched you should not be able to start Logic from SONAR if indeed SONAR is the Slave and Logic is the MAster.
    You may need to fine tune some of the settings found on the Options ->Project-> Clock, MIDI Out and Sync tabs

    You also need to check Options->Audio->Advanced tab under Full Chase lock.

    From the SONAR 7 help file:
    "Synchronization
    SONAR gives you two choices for synchronizing your audio tracks to SMPTE or MIDI Time Code:

    Trigger and Freewheel--With this option audio playback starts (or triggers) at the exact timecode, but then the audio plays at its own internal rate. The audio can gradually drift away from SMPTE time due to variations in the timecode signal.
    Full Chase Lock--With this option the speed of audio playback is continuously adjusted to stay with the timecode.
    Timing Offset (msec)--With this option, used for making very fine adjustments to the audio/MIDI synchronization of your project, you can offset the audio in your project by a number of milliseconds. A positive value delays audio by that amount. A negative value delays MIDI by that amount. "

    Mike V. (MUDGEL)

    STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64,
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    #2
    Rockman413
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    RE: Sync between Logic and Sonar, Help! 2008/11/03 09:53:49 (permalink)
    Thanks!

    Ok, after some tests: This have nothing to do with midi sync or MTC, has a great to deal with Clock Sync.

    My PC running Sonar with Fireface 800 , when the clock source is selected as Master, seems everythings's fine.
    But most of the time, the clock source is selected as slave, to sync with my Logic, Apogee Ensemble. then in this case there's the 3 seconds pause before playing...

    But I have to let my pc in slave and mac in master, sync with clock! help!
    post edited by Rockman413 - 2008/11/03 10:07:27
    #3
    ohhey
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    RE: Sync between Logic and Sonar, Help! 2008/11/03 09:58:33 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Rockman413

    Thanks!

    Ok, after some tests: This have nothing to do with midi sync or MTC, has a great to deal with Clock Sync.

    My PC running Sonar with Fireface 800 , when the clock source is selected as Master, seems everythings's fine.
    But most of the time, the clock source is selected as slave, to sync with my Logic, Apogee Ensemble. then in this case there's the 3 seconds pause before playing


    That should not be. The sample rate clock has nothing to do with transport functions such as play, stop, etc. In fact the sample rate clock is there all the time even when the system is stopped. So it must be something else.
    #4
    Rockman413
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    RE: Sync between Logic and Sonar, Help! 2008/11/03 10:08:49 (permalink)
    Ok I'm sorry. No matter it is master or slave, it's the same.

    Here's something more:
    in the 3 seconds delay time, I can see that the smpte is running fast in the left down corner of sonar, while the other part of the sonar, and the transport remains where they are, until 3 seconds later, it starts running.
    post edited by Rockman413 - 2008/11/03 10:33:49
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    ohhey
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    RE: Sync between Logic and Sonar, Help! 2008/11/03 10:40:36 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Rockman413

    I've done this small test:
    the clock is master, and everything's fine.
    then, just simply switch clock source and let ff800 in slave mode,then problem occurs.


    That is strange, I wonder if the MOTU is not sending clock till it's in play mode. Anyway it doesn't matter what device is the clock so if it works with the FF800 as the master then leave it that way. In fact the FF800 should have a better quality clock then the MOTU so that would be the best way to hook it up.

    The MTC sync is not connected to or realated to the sample rate clock issue so for example even if Sonar is responding to Logic for transport control and time code (MTC) the FF800 can still be the sample rate clock source for both systems. Again, the sample rate clock should run all the time even if both systems are stopped, if it didn't you couldn't even monitor to set levels. Also, sample rate clock does not contain any timeline position or transport control information like MTC does so it won't cause either system to move.
    #6
    Rockman413
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    RE: Sync between Logic and Sonar, Help! 2008/11/03 11:07:52 (permalink)
    I think maybe my Motu express Midi interface is good. If I use Sonar as Master and send mtc to logic, everything is fine!!
    And I tried send mtc from logic directly to ff800's midi in, same problem

    #7
    rubbi
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    Re: RE: Sync between Logic and Sonar, Help! 2010/04/20 11:51:28 (permalink)
    after 7 years i have the same question:
    i want to sync 2 pc using midi/mtc/smpte(both sonar) but when i the play the 1st pc it take 2sec 6fream to start 2nd pc but everything stayed in sync. but it should not be like that. it should start on that moment.... need your help

    thanks
    #8
    ohhey
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    Re: RE: Sync between Logic and Sonar, Help! 2010/04/20 13:13:34 (permalink)
    rubbi


    after 7 years i have the same question:
    i want to sync 2 pc using midi/mtc/smpte(both sonar) but when i the play the 1st pc it take 2sec 6fream to start 2nd pc but everything stayed in sync. but it should not be like that. it should start on that moment.... need your help

    thanks


    You need to manage your expectations. MTC is based on SMPTE and very old and only accurate to 30 frames per second. A laughable resolution by today's standards.  Also, all the software that I've used and can do MTC does take some time to respond.  There is no faster method.  In fact there is no modern replacement for MTC because it's expected that today one machine can do everything.  MTC is a legacy solution and we are stuck with it as it is, and it will not be updated. 

    What's worse then that is modern systems like DVD don't even attempt to use a timeline reference for audio and video. There is no connection between them. They just both start together and you have to hope they stay in sync and decode (decompress) at the same rate.  I've seen many home theater systems that drift out of sync as the movie plays, even real expensive ones.
    #9
    rubbi
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    Re: RE: Sync between Logic and Sonar, Help! 2010/04/21 09:24:37 (permalink)
    :(
    #10
    tunekicker
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    Re:Sync between Logic and Sonar, Help! 2010/04/22 18:04:43 (permalink)
    What are your ASIO buffer or WDM delay settings in Sonar? If either number is high, this will cause Sonar to take a second or two after hitting the button before it starts.
     
    Peace,
     
    Tunes
    #11
    synthmusic
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    Re:Sync between Logic and Sonar, Help! 2011/07/02 16:08:44 (permalink)
    ** deleted **




    post edited by synthmusic - 2011/07/02 19:36:29
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