Synth sampler suggestions??

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2014/07/07 12:10:44 (permalink)

Synth sampler suggestions??

I don't post here too often but I am out of ideas.
 
A long time ago in a galaxy far,far away I used to use N.I. Battery 3 along with Sonar 8.xx. Battery was very cumbersome and buggy but i dealt with it. Fast foward to now and i am using SonarX-2 and trying out Battery 4. Basically all i want to do is insert it in Sonar and address my drumpads to any cell needed. Also, I used to take ambient sounds or a sound on a song or track edit then load for triggering.
 
I've been on the NI forum but that is a desert.
 
My problem is 2 fold.....i think.
 
First is how to map my drum pads. When i look into my settings it sees my Alesis DM-10 drum kit (stand alone or plugin).
 
1 Hour later....
 
Actually can someone suggest an alternative, i get one problem solved then another crops up. I was able by accident to map it but now it only triggers on the second hit....I'm done. 

 
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    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Synth sampler suggestions?? 2014/07/07 13:12:53 (permalink)
    Well, each cell in a Battery 3 kit is set to a specific Note Number or Note Name, and you should see what those are for each cell from the Battery 3 UI.
     
    Each cell also can be assigned to send its audio output to a different stereo output, if you assign them as such.  I do this for every kit I use in Battery 3, so that each kit piece routes to its own stereo audio track in Sonar.  (after setting all of that up, I save the kit as a custom kit, and I save all the tracks and routing assignments in Sonar as a track template for that kit).
     
    Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
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    #2
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    Re: Synth sampler suggestions?? 2014/07/07 14:22:39 (permalink)
    I must have been doing it differently.
     
    All of my cells went back to a single track in sonar, any adjustments like levels etc were done in battery.
    I'm just fed up with it, everything else works smoothly, my BFD3 is flawless with no latency. I load up Battery and after i do figure out how to map it the latency(stand alone and VST...VST is waaaay worse) is horrible and it only triggers when it feels like it(sensitivity is even high) and when it does it almost seems like a layered trigger because i hear piano notes along with what i load into the cell.
     
    Not how it was in Battery3
     
    I want to like it  i really do but if I'm going to pay for it I have to make sure it does what i want, and what i want is actually very simple. I would have to at the very least, use it in stand alone and loop the output back in to an open input on my presonus just to get rid of the bad latency.And i have a pretty powerful setup.
     
    There has to be something else out there i can use. 

     
    Equipment:
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    #3
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Synth sampler suggestions?? 2014/07/07 14:42:30 (permalink)
    Can you please list for me your computer system specs?  
     
    There shouldn't be issue with latency and Battery 3 or Battery 4, unless you either have a latency problem with your computer itself, or have a bunch of plugin effects causing problems, or are possibly not using an audio interface and ASIO drivers.
     
    So, please list for me:
     
    1.  What audio interface are you using (or none if you are not)
    2.  For your audio interface, what is your ASIO Buffer Size and Sample Rate currently set to?
    3.  For Sonar, what is your Driver Mode, Sample Rate, and Record Bit-Depth set to?
    4.  Also for Sonar, what are your Sonar-reported latency values currently running at?
    5.  For this particular project, what specific plugin effects are loaded?
    6.  Does your computer have a Wi-Fi adapter enabled?
     
    I think we can get things straightened out for you - please review the above and respond to each bit of requested information.
     
    Thanks, 
     
    Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
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    Re: Synth sampler suggestions?? 2014/07/07 15:39:04 (permalink)
    Im at the doctors office but certainly will when I get home. Like I said I want to use it but it seems like under the hood it has not caught up with the times. My other synths are flawless so all things being equal.....

    And thanks for chiming in.

     
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    #5
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    Re: Synth sampler suggestions?? 2014/07/07 15:44:47 (permalink)
    Im at the doctors office but certainly will when I get home. Like I said I want to use it but it seems like under the hood it has not caught up with the times. My other synths are flawless so all things being equal.....

    And thanks for chiming in.

     
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    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Synth sampler suggestions?? 2014/07/07 17:21:38 (permalink)
    I have Battery 3, and it simply does not fail for me.  There may be something we can get figured out.  Time for me to run a few errands, but I will check back in an hour or so.
     
    Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
    MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
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    Splat
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    Re: Synth sampler suggestions?? 2014/07/07 17:29:05 (permalink)
    Battery 4 VST is excellent here. I'm not sure if it's a technical issue you have or not but I found this tutorial excellent...
    http://www.groove3.com/st.BATTERY-4-Explained.html

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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    Re: Synth sampler suggestions?? 2014/07/07 21:25:50 (permalink)
    robert_e_bone
    Can you please list for me your computer system specs?  
     
    There shouldn't be issue with latency and Battery 3 or Battery 4, unless you either have a latency problem with your computer itself, or have a bunch of plugin effects causing problems, or are possibly not using an audio interface and ASIO drivers.
     
    So, please list for me:
     
    1.  What audio interface are you using (or none if you are not)
    A: I'm not on the input side. It's an Alesis DM-10 that goes straight into my PC via USB.Then out to my Alesis  IO-26 Via Firewire.
    2.  For your audio interface, what is your ASIO Buffer Size and Sample Rate currently set to?
    A: Buffer is 512 safe mode level 1, Sample is set to 44.1 kHz
    3.  For Sonar, what is your Driver Mode, Sample Rate, and Record Bit-Depth set to?
    A: Driver mode is ASIO, Sample rate is 44.1 kHz Bit Depth is 24
    4.  Also for Sonar, what are your Sonar-reported latency values currently running at?
    A: 32.1 msec 1417samples.
    5.  For this particular project, what specific plugin effects are loaded?
    A; 3 gates ,1EQ and 1 Reverb
    6.  Does your computer have a Wi-Fi adapter enabled?
    A: Never when i have sonar running
     
    I think we can get things straightened out for you - please review the above and respond to each bit of requested information.
     
    Thanks, 
     
    Bob Bone
     




     
    Answered above...
     
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    #9
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Synth sampler suggestions?? 2014/07/07 23:58:52 (permalink)
    I am not at all sure what your 'not on the input side' means.  Please elaborate.
     
    So, you have en electronic kit running into your PC, and have an Alesis I/026.  Kewl.
     
    IF I am understanding things correctly, you are having trouble when you try to trigger sounds in Battery.
     
    It seems to me your ASIO Buffer Size is WAY WAY too high for recording purposes, and results in too much latency to ever be properly used for recording.
     
    When I am recording, or just playing live using Sonar, I use an ASIO Buffer Size of 128.  You need a latency of around 10 milliseconds or a little less to be able to play and record without noticeable lag.
     
    On the other hand, once you are DONE with recording, and begin the mixing process, THEN you want your ASIO Buffer Size way high - perhaps up to 1024, to allow a large enough buffer for more robust effects (Perfect Space or Boost 11 are a couple), to do their thing.  When mixing or mastering, you aren't worried about lag anymore.
     
    Please try setting your ASIO Buffer Size down to 128, then cycling the audio interface, to reload the drivers in memory, and give it another shot.
     
    Thanks, 
     
    Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
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    sharke
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    Re: Synth sampler suggestions?? 2014/07/08 00:26:07 (permalink)
    Might be worth chiming in here that I also use Battery 4 with absolutely no lag or other problems. It's a fine VST "under the hood" and the same could be said for Battery 3 as well. You should definitely concentrate on working out what's going on on your system because it's not a particularly CPU-intensive plugin. 

    James
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    Kev999
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    Re: Synth sampler suggestions?? 2014/07/08 02:19:29 (permalink)
    robert_e_bone
    I have Battery 3, and it simply does not fail for me.



    Same here. I have been using Battery 3 regularly since 2007 and have come across any bugs whatsoever.

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    Re: Synth sampler suggestions?? 2014/07/08 09:36:48 (permalink)
    robert_e_bone
    I am not at all sure what your 'not on the input side' means.  Please elaborate.
     
    So, you have en electronic kit running into your PC, and have an Alesis I/026.  Kewl.
     
    IF I am understanding things correctly, you are having trouble when you try to trigger sounds in Battery.
     
    It seems to me your ASIO Buffer Size is WAY WAY too high for recording purposes, and results in too much latency to ever be properly used for recording.
     
    When I am recording, or just playing live using Sonar, I use an ASIO Buffer Size of 128.  You need a latency of around 10 milliseconds or a little less to be able to play and record without noticeable lag.
     
    On the other hand, once you are DONE with recording, and begin the mixing process, THEN you want your ASIO Buffer Size way high - perhaps up to 1024, to allow a large enough buffer for more robust effects (Perfect Space or Boost 11 are a couple), to do their thing.  When mixing or mastering, you aren't worried about lag anymore.
     
    Please try setting your ASIO Buffer Size down to 128, then cycling the audio interface, to reload the drivers in memory, and give it another shot.
     
    Thanks, 
     
    Bob Bone
     


     
    I will give it a try.
    I just meant that some interfaces have a midi input as well  that's all.

     
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    #13
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Synth sampler suggestions?? 2014/07/08 10:05:06 (permalink)
    Thanks for explaining - I was clueless as to what that meant.  :)
     
    For the rest of time, you will need to be aware of your current ASIO Buffer Size, as its size will have to change back and forth from quite small to quite large, depending on whether or not you are recording or have moved on to mixing/mastering.
     
    Keep it low (128 is pretty good) during recording, and keep it high (1024) when mixing, and you should be OK.
     
    Additionally, it really matters what specific plugins you have loaded into your projects when you are recording, because some of them can REALLY mess up your latency and cause lots of problems.
     
    Certain plugins are not meant to be used during recording - and it has to do with how they do what they do for a particular effect.  The things to look out for are plugins that either use something called 'look-ahead' processing, or those that chew up a lot of CPU.  Examples of these would include Perfect Space and Boost 11, but there are others as well.
     
    If your ASIO Buffer Size is low, and you are still having lag problems or crackles and such, you can quickly test whether or not the cause is one or more of the plugins, by temporarily bypassing all effects.  There is a shortcut key to do this - hit 'E' on your computer keyboard to toggle off/on the effects.  If your effects are all bypassed and your lag/crackles go away, then you know that one or more of your currently loaded plugins is causing the problems, and you will need to swap it out for something else, until you finish recording.  Once you move on to mixing, you can put that effect back in, as you will also have adjusted your ASIO Buffer Size much higher, and that will allow the effect to process properly.
     
    Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
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    Re: Synth sampler suggestions?? 2014/07/08 15:19:55 (permalink)
    It is still not triggering when i hit it. I checked my sensitivity and velocity settings but for some reason it will not trigger all the time,only when it wants to which is randomly. Thinking about youtubing it, it is the only program/plugin that has any issues whatsoever.      

     
    Equipment:
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    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Synth sampler suggestions?? 2014/07/08 16:49:07 (permalink)
    1.  Can you elaborate on the random triggering a bit?  I am trying to understand if it is particular drum kit pieces that aren't sounding, or if you are playing on a single drum and it plays once then skips playing a couple times then plays again - that kind of thing.
     
    2.  With the change of your ASIO Buffer Size to 128, what are the current Sonar-reported latency values?
     
    3.  IF you have any effects loaded into this project, can you please specify EXACTLY which ones they are? (not just EQ, but WHICH EQ, etc).
     
    4.  When you have the Battery UI open, and you hit your different drum pads, are you seeing midi activity in Battery?  (I am wondering if the note names/numbers are not lining up between the cells and the pads).
     
    Thanks, 
     
    Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
    MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
    Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
    #16
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    Re: Synth sampler suggestions?? 2014/07/09 11:17:07 (permalink)
    robert_e_bone
    1.  Can you elaborate on the random triggering a bit?  I am trying to understand if it is particular drum kit pieces that aren't sounding, or if you are playing on a single drum and it plays once then skips playing a couple times then plays again - that kind of thing.
     
    A: I can start to tap at a constant rate and it will randomly trigger. Speed and power does not matter.
     
    2.  With the change of your ASIO Buffer Size to 128, what are the current Sonar-reported latency values?
     
    A: 13.8 milliseconds round trip
     
    3.  IF you have any effects loaded into this project, can you please specify EXACTLY which ones they are? (not just EQ, but WHICH EQ, etc).
     
    A: Three gates ,two reverbs and 1 eq all Sonitus
     
     
    4.  When you have the Battery UI open, and you hit your different drum pads, are you seeing midi activity in Battery?  (I am wondering if the note names/numbers are not lining up between the cells and the pads).
     
    A: I see them changing cells... yes
    Thanks, 
     
    Bob Bone
     






     
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    Re: Synth sampler suggestions?? 2014/07/09 11:18:11 (permalink)
    I think i will post up a video, maybe that will help.
     

     
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    Re: Synth sampler suggestions?? 2014/07/09 12:15:17 (permalink)

     
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    Splat
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    Re: Synth sampler suggestions?? 2014/07/09 13:30:27 (permalink)
    Have you tried it with other patches, or starting an empty patch and loading in new sounds?
     
    How are your voice groups configured and what about polyphony? You may have cells assigned to the same voice group...
     
    Couple of threads to look at....
     
    http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/midi-trigger-pad-doesnt-sound-in-battery-3.64931/
     
    http://www.gearslutz.com/board/rap-hip-hop-engineering-production/682520-battery-3-again-samples-get-cut-off.html
     
     
    Cheers...

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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    #20
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Synth sampler suggestions?? 2014/07/09 15:49:48 (permalink)
    I am quite curious about something here.
     
    Have you tried launching Battery in Stand-Alone mode, and trying to trigger sounds that way?
     
    I am just trying to see if we could whittle down the things to look at, by taking Sonar out of the equation, for testing purposes.
     
    In addition, (and I apologize if you answered this already), what happens if you use a different drum synth with your electronic drum kit?  Do all the pads trigger like they are supposed to?
     
    Bob Bone

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
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    #21
    ampfixer
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    Re: Synth sampler suggestions?? 2014/07/09 17:56:05 (permalink)
    I'd be curious if bypassing the gates changes things. Perhaps they are triggering but the gates are cutting off the audio.

    Regards, John 
     I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
    WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig,  Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6 
    #22
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Synth sampler suggestions?? 2014/07/09 18:13:42 (permalink)
    Does Sonar capture the midi data from the pads triggering, if you arm the midi track and record?
     
    Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
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    #23
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    Re: Synth sampler suggestions?? 2014/07/09 19:26:20 (permalink)
    Yes it does, every time.

     
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    #24
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    Re: Synth sampler suggestions?? 2014/07/09 19:28:21 (permalink)
    ampfixer
    I'd be curious if bypassing the gates changes things. Perhaps they are triggering but the gates are cutting off the audio.


    I had them disabled in the video.

     
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    #25
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Synth sampler suggestions?? 2014/07/09 21:40:49 (permalink)
    OK - well at least they are recording, so that's good news.
     
    I'll look some stuff up in the doc and see if I can help you get this straight.
     
    Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
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    #26
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    Re: Synth sampler suggestions?? 2014/07/09 23:03:24 (permalink)
    Thanks for sticking around I appreciate it. Im gearing up to start making 2 week trips back and forth to Canada for work for the next year or so so packing, paperwork and immigration is taking a front seat, but I am keeping an eye here and will get back to try any suggestions you may think of beforehand. Like I said I do want to use it.
     
    Thanks again.

     
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    #27
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Synth sampler suggestions?? 2014/07/10 02:36:10 (permalink)
    Sure - it is the middle of the night now for me, so off to saw some lumber (zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz).
     
    I will pick it all up in the morning, and do my best to help you.
     
    Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
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    Re: Synth sampler suggestions?? 2014/07/10 11:25:30 (permalink)
    Regarding stand alone mode, yes I'm experiencing the same problem.

     
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    #29
    ampfixer
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    Re: Synth sampler suggestions?? 2014/07/10 14:03:43 (permalink)
    In the preferences can you manipulate the priority of midi devices? I seem to recall that I had to look at all my midi stuff and prioritize it. The other thing with midi is the USB port you are using. Even though they are supposed to be the same, I've had devices that won't  work on USB port A but will work on USB port B.
     
    Sorry man, that's all I've got.

    Regards, John 
     I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
    WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig,  Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6 
    #30
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