Imagination
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TC powercore or Waves Gold/Platinum??
Hello, I was thinking of getting the Firewire version of the TC Electronic PowerCore and a friend of mine who normally does ProTools(LE) told me to look at Waves Gold/Platinum and see which one I would like more. Now i'm stuck. Anyone have any experience w/ either and recommend which one I should go for? I'm kind of leaning towards the Waves Gold bundle but I do like rackmounted stuff.... I normally do stuff in Project 5 but I do have Sonar 5 PE too...
post edited by Imagination - 2006/10/18 14:36:45
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OffAnAirplane
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RE: TC powercore or Waves Gold/Platinum??
2006/10/18 14:30:44
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ORIGINAL: Imagination
Hello,
I was thinking of getting the Firewire version of the TC Electronic PowerCore and a friend of mine who normally does ProTools(LE) told me to look at Waves Gold/Platinum and see which one I would like more. Now i'm stuck. Anyone have any experience w/ either and recommend which one I should go for? I'm kind of leaning towards the Waves Gold bundle but I do like rackmounted stuff....
I normally do stuff in Project 5 but I do have Sonar 5 PE too...
The PowerCore will be much more effecient, because it is DSP based, and the Waves plugs are stictly software. They are both overpriced in my opinion, and not worth it. But if I had to choose between the two, it would definitely be the Powercore.
Rom 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.
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ohhey
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RE: TC powercore or Waves Gold/Platinum??
2006/10/18 14:54:52
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ORIGINAL: Imagination
Hello,
I was thinking of getting the Firewire version of the TC Electronic PowerCore and a friend of mine who normally does ProTools(LE) told me to look at Waves Gold/Platinum and see which one I would like more. Now i'm stuck. Anyone have any experience w/ either and recommend which one I should go for? I'm kind of leaning towards the Waves Gold bundle but I do like rackmounted stuff....
I normally do stuff in Project 5 but I do have Sonar 5 PE too...
I hate the idea of having to have a special DSP card just to be able to use my plugins but of these two I would tend to go with the TC stuff just because I like the sound and function of their stuff better. I've used the Waves Gold and TCNative bundle and the TC stuff sounded better and used less CPU even with the old native versions ! I wish they still sold the native ones but I understand that would kill the market for their hardware... shame.
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fooman
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RE: TC powercore or Waves Gold/Platinum??
2006/10/18 15:08:06
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Wow man you have some cash on you... I don't have the Waves page up right now but I remember the higher series costing over $1000!!!
Go check out UAD or Voxengo. Save your money for something worth it! What are your plugin needs right now? Do you 'need' everything in those packages, or just a few plugs to fill in what you already have???
I just can't see spending THAT kinda cash on Waves plugs when I can definately get by with Sonar's Sonitus when I have to.
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Imagination
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RE: TC powercore or Waves Gold/Platinum??
2006/10/18 15:57:45
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Thanks for the reply guys..... There was a time (before I talked to my ProTools friend) where I was trying to figure out between the UAD-1e vs the PowerCore. UAD turned me off only because I tried to register on the forum because I needed a very important question answered (this card seems to be "picky" about what motherboards the UAD chipset works with) and never recieved a confirmation e-mail to finish registration.. I then looked up who the moderators were and only one of them (chris) had a e-mail listed.. so i tried to e-mail that person and the e-mail was sent back unable to locate the e-mail address on the net. So i figured it was a lost cause and moved on..... My motherboard is a Abit AT8 32X which runs on ATI's 580 chipset. I like ATI's chipsets better then Nvidia's (doesn't require drivers). And yeah... i took a loan out on my 401K... i got enough for a PowerCore (or alternative) and a ProjectMix I/O..... I've got over 50GB in sounds/applications so I'm good there... but my friend told me I should invest in either plug-in's (EQ, Desser's, Compressors, limiters ect.....) or the hardware version of it......
post edited by Imagination - 2006/10/18 16:15:34
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OffAnAirplane
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RE: TC powercore or Waves Gold/Platinum??
2006/10/18 16:44:38
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ORIGINAL: Imagination
but my friend told me I should invest in either plug-in's (EQ, Desser's, Compressors, limiters ect.....) or the hardware version of it......
I wouldn't "invest" in anything I didn't need. Software is not an investment. You will never get your money back. If you don't need it, it just a waste of money. I would buy a nice preamp were I you, and use the Sonitus FX, or maybe buy a WaveArts bundle. WaveArts are excellent and much cheaper.
Rom 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.
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j boy
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RE: TC powercore or Waves Gold/Platinum??
2006/10/18 18:29:40
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ORIGINAL: Imagination
i took a loan out on my 401K... i got enough for a PowerCore (or alternative) and a ProjectMix I/O.....
I hope you're not serious.
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Imagination
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RE: TC powercore or Waves Gold/Platinum??
2006/10/18 19:21:48
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ORIGINAL: j boy
ORIGINAL: Imagination
i took a loan out on my 401K... i got enough for a PowerCore (or alternative) and a ProjectMix I/O.....
I hope you're not serious.
Um.... yep... i am... Took out $3,000 which will be paid back in 12 months. I work for a bank and they do employee's 401K differently from the average user....
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jacktheexcynic
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RE: TC powercore or Waves Gold/Platinum??
2006/10/18 19:31:15
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ORIGINAL: j boy
ORIGINAL: Imagination
i took a loan out on my 401K... i got enough for a PowerCore (or alternative) and a ProjectMix I/O.....
I hope you're not serious.
yeah i never got that. borrowing money from yourself  . in an emergency (say, paying for unexpected chemotherapy), i guess but for a dsp card? don't blow that much money unless you can say exactly what waves will do for you that the stuff you have already won't. make sure you aren't over-investing in the wrong end of your signal chain - no one will listen to your song and say, "wow, that powercore plugin made all the difference! good thing you didn't use sonitus!"
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ReValveiT
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RE: TC powercore or Waves Gold/Platinum??
2006/10/18 19:44:30
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I wouldn't blow that sort of cash on the Waves stuff... I had the Diamond v5 bundle (yes the cracked ones to try out 'coz I didn't / DON'T have an iLok to try the demo) BTW: Dongles really do their job well don't they? NOT!
They're all a bit crappy and dated TBH... There are FAR better (not to mention far cheaper!) plugs available.
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Imagination
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RE: TC powercore or Waves Gold/Platinum??
2006/10/18 20:05:44
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I'm gonna listen to a bunch of you and skip the purchase for now on plug-ins... maybe i'll get the Project Mix and a PreSonus Eureka.
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Jim Roseberry
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RE: TC powercore or Waves Gold/Platinum??
2006/10/19 02:51:29
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I'd go with neither... ;-)
If you're looking for staple mixing tools, you'd be better off with the Waves SSL bundle... or a UAD1.
The TC's reverbs are pretty decent. But you'll have to add Oxford plugs to get good EQ/Dynamics...
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Big Boss Man
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RE: TC powercore or Waves Gold/Platinum??
2006/10/19 13:14:59
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Regarding the UAD forum... They have a forum there where members list working setups. You might be able to find something close to your setup in that list. UAD-1 is kind of old technology though. I would lean towards the Powercore instead based on what I have read on each of their web sites. I cannot say I have actual direct experience with any of these though.
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Jim Roseberry
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RE: TC powercore or Waves Gold/Platinum??
2006/10/19 16:16:09
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Powercore vs UAD vs SSL bundle: (I have significant experience with all three)
- TC Powercore comes stock with pretty decent reverb. As far as EQ/Dynamics processing, the stock TC plugs are weak. (Adding Oxford EQ/Dynamics is necessary if you go with the Powercore)
- Waves SSL bundle comes stock with great EQ/Dynamics (no reverb/ambience processing)
- UAD1 offers some excellent EQ/Dynamics... (LA2A, 1176, Pultec, Neve) and also has pretty decent reverb (DreamVerb, Plate 140)
If you need fundamental mixing tools (dynamics, filters, EQ), the Waves SSL bundle is excellent.
If you're looking for quality 'vintage flavor' plugs with focus on dynamics/EQ, the UAD1 is a good choice. (As you mention, system hardware compatibility can be an issue)
If you're looking primarily for quality reverb... and don't mind paying a premium to add Sony Oxford Dynamics/EQ, the the Powercore is a good choice. Bear in mind that system hardware compatibility is also an issue for the Powercore.
Regarding the UAD1's Impact DSP chip being 'old technology':
The Powercore uses Motorola DSPs (24Bit fixed processing - easy to clip internally) that have been around for years.
UAD1 uses the Impact graphic DSP chip (32Bit Float processing - no internal clipping) and has been around for years.
BOTH are using 'old' technology. There are advantages/disadvantages to each DSP chip/method.
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j boy
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RE: TC powercore or Waves Gold/Platinum??
2006/10/19 21:08:36
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Jim, you seem to know yer stuff pretty well... why is it you think UAD hasn't put anything forward for laptop/notebook users (like a native set of plugs, or at least a FireWire thingie like TC has)? It seems almost perverse that they would resist offering some way for mobile recordists to use their plugs. I don't count Magma's as a viable option 'cause IMO $1000 for a single-card PCI case is obscene. It just seems like UAD couldn't give a damn about lappie users...(?)
post edited by j boy - 2006/10/19 21:24:21
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Jim Roseberry
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RE: TC powercore or Waves Gold/Platinum??
2006/10/19 22:45:47
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Hi J,
UA has invested substantial time/money into the Mpact chips/technology.
Notice that the new PCIe solution is pretty much identical to the original PCI UAD1.
Apparently they can't just pop numerous Mpact chips onto a PCIe card or a Firewire interface.
My guess is that UA has to change their DSP platform... or at the very least significantly 're-tool' their existing solution.
Unfortunately, I just don't see UA releasing native versions of their plugs.
The PCI card has been far too effective in detering piracy. I'm not aware of ANY cracked versions of UAD1 plugins...
BTW, This situation is exactly why I was so jazzed when the Waves SSL bundle was released.
I had become completely reliant upon UAD1 plugins (due to their high quality)... and thus their PCI hardware.
With PCI being phased out on all new mobos (2-3 PCI slots)... this was starting to become a concern.
Especially with new UAD plugins that consume massive amounts of DSP resources (Neve compressor takes 70% of one card)!
The SSL bundle allows me to achieve similar results... and (being native) requires no additional hardware (other than the dongle).
I still love the UAD1 plugs, but its nice to have the native SSL bundle as an alternative.
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calaverasgrandes
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RE: TC powercore or Waves Gold/Platinum??
2006/10/20 19:08:39
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I have the TCpowercore PCI card. It works great. I dont know why you would NEED to get other dynamics. The 24/7c (LA2A clone) works great on guitar and bass. The vocal channel is pretty cool except the eq frequency doesnt go low enough. The tube sim plug is pretty decent. It has more parameters than i have ever seen on a tube sim. I have real tubes so I dont use it much. The reverbs are pretty decent. Much better than the Lexicon plug. I have never had any hardware issues(like the UAD is known for!). Though TC is not developing for XP64, they are skipping forward to vista. I like the waves stuff, but I hear some folks have problems with the iLok BS. If I a going to pay for hardware problems, I'd prefer to have a dsp card!
post edited by calaverasgrandes - 2006/10/20 19:26:59
Sonar 7.0.3, Mattel Synsonics, Motu 828MKII (BLA), TC-powercore, Stillwell plugins, Moog MG1, Korg Poly 800, DX27s, Moogerfooger Lowpass, Ovation Magnum, Stingray fretless, Mesa Bass 400, Waldorf Edition, DBA fuzz war, Summit 2BA221, etc
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Jim Roseberry
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RE: TC powercore or Waves Gold/Platinum??
2006/10/20 19:58:54
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ORIGINAL: calaverasgrandes
I have the TCpowercore PCI card. It works great. I dont know why you would NEED to get other dynamics. The 24/7c (LA2A clone) works great on guitar and bass. The vocal channel is pretty cool except the eq frequency doesnt go low enough. The tube sim plug is pretty decent. It has more parameters than i have ever seen on a tube sim. I have real tubes so I dont use it much. The reverbs are pretty decent. Much better than the Lexicon plug. I have never had any hardware issues(like the UAD is known for!). Though TC is not developing for XP64, they are skipping forward to vista.
I like the waves stuff, but I hear some folks have problems with the iLok BS. If I a going to pay for hardware problems, I'd prefer to have a dsp card!
I really don't have anything against the Powercore... But... If you're primary concern is having top-notch Dynamics/EQ plugins, the UAD1 or SSL bundle are significantly better than the stock TC 24/7 and channel strip. Add the Oxford plugs to the TC, and it's a different matter. There have been plenty of reported hardware related issues with both the UAD1 and Powercore. If you know which hardware combinations work... it's a moot point. I've built a *LOT* of systems... and I've never had a problem with either. As for iLok, I'm certainly not a fan of dongles. Wish that the SSL bundle didn't require it... But the iLok has never caused a problem for me.
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diamondjim
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RE: TC powercore or Waves Gold/Platinum??
2006/10/25 16:14:50
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ORIGINAL: Jim Roseberry
As for iLok, I'm certainly not a fan of dongles. Wish that the SSL bundle didn't require it...
But the iLok has never caused a problem for me.
Hey Jim, I am getting ready for a big hardware/DAW upgrade, and am considering just these items (UAD vs TC vs Waves/SSL). My one concern about Waves with an iLoK is, does this also use PACE along with the dongle, i.e. modifying the boot record? I had a really bad experience with Izotope Ozone as their demo (at one time) used PACE and installing the demo led to system instability. Took some doing to remove it. I use a Steinberg key for Wavelab 6 and Halion Symph Orchestra, and currently am experiencing real stability problems with WL6, so I am a little gunshy about going to iLOK, yet I really would like to check out the SSL bundle. As I understand the iLOK thing, it works strictly in hardware, and does not require PACE to modify the boot sector. Is this correct?
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Jim Roseberry
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RE: TC powercore or Waves Gold/Platinum??
2006/10/26 19:02:11
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ORIGINAL: diamondjim
Hey Jim,
I am getting ready for a big hardware/DAW upgrade, and am considering just these items (UAD vs TC vs Waves/SSL). My one concern about Waves with an iLoK is, does this also use PACE along with the dongle, i.e. modifying the boot record? I had a really bad experience with Izotope Ozone as their demo (at one time) used PACE and installing the demo led to system instability. Took some doing to remove it.
I use a Steinberg key for Wavelab 6 and Halion Symph Orchestra, and currently am experiencing real stability problems with WL6, so I am a little gunshy about going to iLOK, yet I really would like to check out the SSL bundle.
As I understand the iLOK thing, it works strictly in hardware, and does not require PACE to modify the boot sector. Is this correct?
Here's a link to the details about iLok https://www.ilok.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/iLokManager.woa/8/wo/7n2SzRwAV4580Ltt5JdKx0/2.2.1.13.9 Since the iLok key contains the actual authorizations (and they're portable/mobile)... and the authorizations aren't tied to a system or its hardware, PACE isn't being used in the older (more invasive) manner. FWIW, I haven't had... (or heard of anyone having) trouble as a result of using an iLok. Obviously no dongle is the best case scenario... The way to be absolutely 100% safe is to use Drive Image, Ghost, etc... to make a backup image (of the system drive) before installing. This is a good idea under any/all circumstances... (not just when dealing with PACE/dongles). At the very least, I'd create a system backup and audition the SSL bundle.
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