TH3 Cakewalk edition not receiving MIDI - can someone please verify?

Hi guys

In TH3 Cakewalk edition, I am trying to set up a foot controller to operate a Wah pedal.  However, TH3 is not receiving the MIDI.

Steps to reproduce:

1) Create simple instrument track with Strum GS2 (Instrument does not really matter) and TH3 in its effects bin - enable input monitoring
2) Enable MIDI in on TH3 effect
3) Create MIDI only track and configure MIDI out of this track to point to MIDI in of TH3 - enable input monitoring
4) Open GUI of TH3 and insert and AMP and a cabinet with a Wah pedal in between the AMP and the cabinet
5) Configure both the simple instrument track and MIDI only track to receive MIDI from PCR-800
6) Playing the PCR-800, I can hear the Strum GS2 with the TH3 affecting the sound - including moving the Wah pedal with the mouse to effect Wah  -so MIDI is making it to Sonar
7) Right click on the TH3 Wah pedal to initiate MIDI learn.  While the TH3 is listening for MIDI data, I move the foot controller (twice as per on screen instructions.  The meter of the MIDI only track is indeed moving as I move the foot controller on the PCR-800 
8) After clicking "ok", TH3 reports that no MIDI data was recorded

As a test I created an automation track on the TH3 Wah and remote controlled this with the MIDI data from the foot controller and this worked (Would be a workaround)

As another test, I replaced the TH3 Cakewalk edition with another VSt3 effect (Meldaproduction Harmoniser), enabled MIDI in on that. Then I configured MIDI out of the MIDI only track to point to MIDI in of Meldaproduction harmoniser.  The Meldaproduction Harmoniser was able to receive MIDI in from the PCR-800

So, for some reason on my system, the TH3 is not receiving MIDI data.  It's also possible that this is a limitation of the Cakewalk edition as opposed to the full version.

Note: Configuring TH3 Cakewalk edition as synth does not change the above behaviour.

Just wondering if someone can confirm that this occurs on their system as well.

 
 
I received a reply regarding a TH3 midi assign question:
 
In order to do so, you should enable the "Program Changes recall presets in current bank" option in the "MIDI" window as shown in the image below:
 
                       
 
As the tooltip says, when this option is enabled, the reception of a MIDI Program Change will load the corresponding preset in the bank that is currently selected.
 
Unfortunately, at the moment this is not working for the VST3 format and we are already working on fixing it, so if you need to control the TH3 plug-in with MIDI, you should use the VST2 plug-in instead until a further update resolves the issue.
 
My follow up to this reply is how does one access the VST2 format version?

TheMaartian

boblettnoe
 
My follow up to this reply is how does one access the VST2 format version?

I think they're telling you to use TH2 Producer.

Actually, as I was remembering that (shhh) Ableton Live 9 still isn't VST3 compliant I checked on a reinstall that there indeed is a VST2 version.  I did a custom install only picking the VST2 version this time, and Ableton now loads it fine. I haven't checked about the midi input situation in Sonar with the VST2 version of TH3.

Did this issue ever get resolved?

I think there might still be an issue with Program Changes with vst3 but not with vst2.  Below is an Overloud email response I received on 8-29-16 about this (email pasted below).  I'm assuming the issue still persists but I haven't tested vst3 with newer versions since then.  When new releases come out, I only install the vst2 dll.  And I uncheck Preferences->"Hide Related VST2 Plugins" and "Replace if Possible on Project Load".  This is what TH3 suggested I do and then program changes work for me.  I don't think there is currently any other midi issues other than Program Changes.  Oh, and I'm running the full version.
 
Email from TH3 8-29-16:

There is absolutely no difference in functionality between TH3 VST2 and VST3 (aside, of course, of this issue regarding MIDI which is obviously not intended). 
 
The current state of TH3 VST3 as of version 3.2.2 is that it supports CCs and Note messages, but still not Program Changes. 
It may sound funny somehow, but the VST3 specification does not include "out-of-the-box" support for Program Change messages, replaced by a much more convoluted abstraction (which no one really uses in its full capability). 
The result is that the old "Program Change" functionality has to be "emulated" instead, in some way or another. At the moment we're deciding which way it is best to design this emulation.
 
The good news is that the VST2 is still fully functional with all its MIDI capability, so if you wish to update from the special 3.2.0 that we have sent, you can do so updating with the latest 3.2.2 and then remove the VST3 plug-in from your system (or choosing not to install it right from the installer).

The way I set it up is I have 2 tracks.
Audio track -> Input is right channel of my audio interface where guitar is plugged into.  Output set to my audio interface output.  In effects bin add an instance of TH3.  If I open up the TH3 vst, the header has VST2 drop down where I have Enable MIDI input checked.  You can also verify you're definitely using VST2, as opposed to VST3 by clicking on INFO tab.
 
Midi track -> Input set to my ADA program change footswitch channel Chan 13, Channel set to Chan 13, output set to 2-(TH3 1) - or whatever the TH3 instance happens to be.
 
I've found it to be a bit finicky when I save those two tracks as a template.  I usually load the template, find it not working.  Then I delete the instance of TH3 in effects bin, and then add it back in, then reset my Midi tracks - then it works.
 
Are you sure you're using vst2 instance?  I had both vst2 & vst3 installed originally, and I didn't know that.  So for a while I was probably picking vst3 instance and not aware of it.  That's when Overloud told me to uncheck Preferences->"Hide Related VST2 Plugins" and "Replace if Possible on Project Load" and program changes started working then.  But probably the best way to go is to delete any vst3 dll and only install vst2 dll.

Am I following you correctly?  So do you want to set up one instrument track for TH3, like you can do with any virtual synth for instance, and record both audio and midi to that one track?  Since an instrument track is really a combination of an audio track and a midi track, all I'm doing is splitting them.  I often record guitar audio to the audio track and midi program changes, cc, etc to the midi track.  What is your controller device exactly?

I'm not sure I'm being any help to you.  I'm about 1.5 years in to Cakewalk and one of my most frustrating things was getting TH3 to respond to my Ada Program Change footswitch while I was playing along on my guitar.  Somewhere I found a posting on this forum that told about the 2 track method I described above and it worked for me once I realized the vst3 caveat also mentioned above.  So I'm no expert on this.  If I understand you correctly, you want to set up "one audio track" with TH3 in the fx bin and then be able to midi control TH3 like that?  I thought with an audio track you only have audio ins and outs and I didn't think there was a way for Midi to be applied to what's in the FX bin.  That would be nice if it worked that way.  I pretty sure I tried that early on and could never get it to work.  You say you have plugins that work that way with audio tracks?  Are they Cakewalk plugins?  I do control virtual synths with midi controllers all the time, but they're instrument tracks which are a combined audio and midi track.  Maybe scook will chime in.    

Ok, cool.  Please let us know what you find out cuz this whole subject has been of interest to me although I had settled on the 2 track method as good enough and works for me.  Just occurred to me that the ball drop is near.  Happy New Year!

roger eckhard
you have to create midi track for controller and midi enable th3 under vst dropdown list.  then set midi track input to(controller name)and set output to (th3).make sure to set tracks to echo input.                                                                                        

The exact steps I followed when I attempted to control TH3 Cakewalk Edition via MIDI.

At the time I posted the original question (which was just over 12 months ago) there was a confirmed bug in the then version of TH3 Cakewalk Edition that prevented MIDI from being received.  This bug has long since been rectified with an updated version.