traphillman


Hi NoKey,
 
When you say a bank change in a channel remains in effect until there is another bank change, do you mean for the duration of that song/midi file, or will that bank change affect the next song/file too - unless it is changed?
 
If it affects the same channel on subsequently played files I assume I should be sure that every channel that has a bank change also has a reset of the MSB and LSB at the end of the file - correct?
 
Or will a CC121: 0 reset serve the purpose?
 
Thank you for your help!  Scott


Hi Scott,

Remember that MIDI itself handles no memory, meaning it has no knowledge of the STATE of the device it is playing.

So, bank changes transmitted to the device take place at THAT time and so a bank change will take place only when a bank-change call is sent and is kept as part of the current STATE of the sound device.

Also, as discussed, a bank change can be established by the MSB or/and the LSB..So if one sends a MSB change with the controller for that purpose (usually CC-0), the current bank to use is changed, even if one does not change the LSB. Ditto for LSB, where LSB is in many synths the actual "bank changer" via the CC-32

The key to grasp these things I believe is the word 'state', which is akin to what is currently applies.

Now, CC-121 is "Reset al controllers", and that is used to put the Synth in a "default sate". Now, what is that default state? It DEPENDS on the synth maker..MIDI standard does not say exactly what it should be..It might put it to the Bank-0 or GM mode, or to GS, or to XG (just to say something) as far as bank to make current. It will also reset all other effects to that chosen state, INCLUDING volumes, so if one sends a cc-121 one may end up with music up to the HIGHEST volume..Nasty thing if performing, or is using headphones. CC-121 APPLIES to all channels of the Synth. You can't even count on saying that it will put X voice on X channel, because I have never seen that done...It would be nice if Reset all controllers would put NO-VOICE in each channel, but UNFORTUNATELY, MIDI, I don't beleive, still specifies a NULL voice (Which I've always believed is lacking). But since the beginning MIDI wanted to waste no available patch, for everything was so limitted in those times of the birth of GM.

However, I think the most important issue is that no matter WHERE or when you send the cc-121, if there are bank changes to follow, they WILL take place.

So reset all controllers is something you might want to do when starting, but it is my limitted experience, that MIDI files do their own SETTING of controllers to whatever the midi file composer or maker wants..Because he has to have control of loudness, panning, reverb, and so on. It's part of his composition. They often also set the instruments on each channel right at the beginning of a file..This means that most files keep the same instrument and bank change as established in the beginning...But they can and do other things later, down the song.

Reset all controllores usually is the same as the Panic Button on some keyboards (and softwares too)..But, again, HOW the synths respond to the cc-121 is SPECIFIC to a synth.

Also, keep in mind that most midi files probably don't use banks, because they know and wish them to sound OK on most instruments, meaning they are actually using the GM standard...Most MIDI files use GM, so bank changes are not there.

If you have decided to use patch changes in midi files of others, then guide yourself by the STATE in which your MIDI file is during the song, and how it leaves the song. You'd have to check if reset all controllers does set the bank to bank-0 or what.. It might not. Even some module MIGHT not implement the cc-121, and still say they "support" a particular standard.

And yes, if it's a questionable way, cc-121 can help..But when and how you will send it that could create other issues, or your Q's could have other answers.. For instance, we don't know if you also use pushbuttons on a keyboard to send messages..That'd be another factor that could affect banks/voices..But still all MIDI is in a sequential way..Whatever comes along, that's what takes place and remains as a state till, changed by some next message.

I am a real-time player, and so I do these things with buttons..But I have noticed that Sonar DOES have an option somewhere (Project or Global), I forgot where you can opt to have Sonar RESET ALL controllers (cc-121) every time a song ends..If you are using Sonar, see how that is checked. You might want it one way or the other.

If you don't really need bank changes, clean up bank changes as you did, and do them only on the voices that you really feel you have to.

Otherwise, I will say that using banks is A LOT of work..In my case I have to use them, and when I program the buttons for voices, it is a task of its own, specially with this A-33 keyboard that is designed specially for performance. That's another story though. But I would even say that it'd be harder if I had to do it in MIDI files. That's because I switch voices during a song, and I use various sound modules simultaneously.

As an aside, when I record the MIDI in sonar, it records every thing perfectly in MIDI tracks. And it plays them back also OK..BUT, my MIDI file, no way would be compatible any other place, because it needs specifically the sound modules I trigger, and how they are set up.

I dared to mention extra things just in case they may mean something to you and help resolving, and see that a MIDI file CAN get to be very SPECIFIC to a setup. And I hope those extra stories don't un-help you.

Best of all.

I think I just assumed wrongly that since an interface was a professional grade sound card it would produce sound - since I also read that my SD-20 sound module was described as a professional level sound card.  I remain behind the learning curve - but I am slowly gaining on it.

I am rereading the Band in a Box manual, but I can't find where it addresses my precise concerns about driving midi and audio at the same time.

I assume I should select the interface drivers in both audio and midi when I am using the TTS and not the SD 20 to play the midi sounds.  I think that is the set-up I had selected last night when I could monitor the TTS sounds from the interface headphone jack.  Does that sound right?

But to use the SD-20 sounds for my midi, or on files that have midi tracks and also have audio tracks (i.e., BIAB Real Tracks - or some other type of audio) do I have to make some other midi driver selection?

If I run the midi out on the interface into the SD-20 midi in will the Real Band sequencer recognize that the SD-20 is on line and even give me the option of selecting that as the midi driver output?  If it does not recognize it and give me that option then what do I do?

Then I can go to Real Band and probably select the interface as  the Audio Out driver and, hopefully, I will then be presented with the option of selecting the SD-20 for the Midi Out driver (with no TTS selection) and play a file containing both midi and audio tracks.  Right?

Now what do I have to do to record all this sound in the computer to make a CD?  Is the USB connection automatically returning the full compliment of voice, guitar, midi track and audio track signals going into the interface back to the computer software?  There is no place on the interface to plug in any output from the mixer.

Greg, it sounds like using an external recording set-up is a simpler way to go. What kind of hardware do you use or recommend to do the recording. I plan to only make a master and one copy, then send the master off to a professional CD maker to produce and package the CDs.