Helpful ReplyTake Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test"

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pwalpwal
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Re: Take Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test" 2016/03/16 13:42:31 (permalink)
KPerry
Google Analytics.  Google Scripts is also another site/set of scripts that gets used a lot and blocking it can cause things to fail unexpectedly.


i use soundcloud with everything but soundcloud.com and sndcdn.com blocked, no trubs
the cake site also need newrelic, googleapis and sometimes surveymonkey unblocking to work properly
eta: to get the soundcloud players embedded in the blog piece to work i also had to unblock a cookie from scorecardresearch.com
post edited by pwalpwal - 2016/03/16 15:36:13

just a sec

#61
jpetersen
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Re: Take Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test" 2016/03/16 15:11:09 (permalink)
KPerry
Google Analytics.  Google Scripts is also another site/set of scripts that gets used a lot and blocking it can cause things to fail unexpectedly.

OH... duh. Thanks.
I've now allowed everything, still no joy.
I don't understand it.There's no google ajax or tabs or any of the usual things. H'm.
Time to stop, I'm just polluting the thread now...
#62
brconflict
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Re: Take Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test" 2016/03/16 15:16:05 (permalink)
jpetersen
KPerry
Google Analytics.  Google Scripts is also another site/set of scripts that gets used a lot and blocking it can cause things to fail unexpectedly.

OH... duh. Thanks.
I've now allowed everything, still no joy.
I don't understand it.There's no google ajax or tabs or any of the usual things. H'm.
Time to stop, I'm just polluting the thread now...


The Soundcloud stuff is weird. They seem to have poorly implemented player code.



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#63
KPerry
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Re: Take Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test" 2016/03/16 16:53:14 (permalink)
Thanks for correction: I meant googleapi not Google scripts. Close :-)
#64
Paul P
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Re: Take Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test" 2016/03/16 17:02:14 (permalink)
brconflict
I was actually surprised it was out of Finland. It sounds very American, which is where, as another member pointed out is indicative of the "music industry". Why not keep it Finnish-sounding? It might actually stand out.



I don't think it's that surprising since just about every really big pop hit today comes out of Sweden, right next door.

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#65
steve@baselines.com
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Re: Take Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test" 2016/03/16 21:11:29 (permalink)
I agree fully with Chris Porter.  I really liked 3 but when I got to 5 it had a slight edge.  Listening with my new HD650 phones.
#66
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Re: Take Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test" 2016/03/17 00:00:42 (permalink)
stevec
# 3 here too, with 6 and 5 following behind.   # 2 and 4 seemed to lose some of their transient attack/punch compared to the others. 
 
Of course, if I were to listen to the same tracks a week from now my preferences could be different, as could my listening environment.  
if you had taken the time to match volumes you would have found that the transients were in fact more prominent in 2 and 4. The tracks are quieter because there was less limiting implemented, preserving more dynamic range. What I'm learning mostly with this test is how many people have no idea what dynamic range is and how to compare tracks that are at different volumes. There's a video out there about loudness wars, you should watch it.

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#67
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Re: Take Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test" 2016/03/17 00:07:13 (permalink)
Listen to the end of the bridge where there is a crescendo into the outro. In some of the tracks that crescendo simply ceases to exist. It's a major part of what makes the track dynamic. It adds excitement but somehow in some of these "masters" that has been sucked out. All the life, the thwack of the snare is crushed into oblivion.

I'm looking forward to the results. Bring it on. If I had to guess, 2 was mastered by a seasoned engineer. 4 is either also an engineer or a very low setting in LANDR. The mix is less balanced but still dynamic. 1,3,5 & 6 I would pin on LANDR but they've told us that there are humans involved for at least 4 of these.

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#68
hueseph
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Re: Take Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test" 2016/03/17 00:07:14 (permalink)
Here it is:

http://youtu.be/3Gmex_4hreQ
post edited by hueseph - 2016/03/17 00:58:53

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#69
Soundwise
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Re: Take Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test" 2016/03/17 05:04:14 (permalink)
hueseph
if you had taken the time to match volumes you would have found that the transients were in fact more prominent in 2 and 4.

You can tell that just by looking at waveforms as well.
#70
pwalpwal
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Re: Take Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test" 2016/03/17 10:39:40 (permalink)
how does soundcloud's own compression/streaming algorithms affect the sound?

just a sec

#71
Audiodog
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Re: Take Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test" 2016/03/17 10:51:34 (permalink)
I prefer # 3 overall, with #6 a close second
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Re: Take Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test" 2016/03/17 11:59:43 (permalink)
Another vote for #3. #6 would be my 2nd preference although the vocal is a touch sibilant for my taste. In #1 & #5 you can really hear the limiter working.
#73
stevec
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Re: Take Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test" 2016/03/17 14:10:39 (permalink)
Soundwise
hueseph
if you had taken the time to match volumes you would have found that the transients were in fact more prominent in 2 and 4.

You can tell that just by looking at waveforms as well.




Exactly.     
 
I was listening on headphones, at work.  Level matching simply wasn't an option....    However, it was a real-world/outside the studio listening experience, as 99% of the target audience is likely to do.   
 

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#74
Garry Stubbs
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Re: Take Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test" 2016/03/17 18:04:09 (permalink)
Great idea ! I have listened to each track in sequence, making notes as I listened on notebook. I listened back one more time to verify my notes. Here they are copied and pasted below....
 
 
 
Premaster. Strings not jumping out. Vocals clear. Bass indistinct. Snare could sound 'better' Kick drum and bass dull together.
1. Mastering Blind Test #1. Guitar brighter - louder so took level down. Bass guitar more resonant, as are toms on kit. Less dynamics, brighter.
2. More mids. Guitar less bright. Kick more punchy. Feels more 'cohesive' I like because its subtle.
3. Hotter (like 1) Good dynamics. Snare really snaps. More aware of hi-hats so more toppy.
4. Softer mastering, cohesive. Perhaps a little too subtle? Not coming full on at me on my studio monitors (KRK Rokit 5's) what do I mean? not punchy enough? My least favourite so far.
5. Least subtle so far. Seems missing some 'body' A little toppy. The missing 'body' returns in the chorus, but a little boomy. Easy to like at one level, but could be ear fatiguing after a couple of plays.
6. Nice kick drum. Snare not as prominant but doesnt take away from the feel. Best tone on the sidestick. Melds together well. Not 'boomy'.
 
 
My favourites. 2 and 6. For different reasons. 2 is subtle but very 'glued' together sonically. 6 is punchy and in your face but everything balanced. My least favourite, 4 and 5, 4 a little 'dead' and 5 too ear fatiguing possibly.
 


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#75
SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Take Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test" 2016/03/17 20:24:25 (permalink)
 
 
I'm not that au fait with Soundcloud, so could someone please tell me how to download the various versions.
 
Also, are we listening/downloading .wav quality files, or making mastering judgements on 128kbps mp3s?
 
 

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#76
bitflipper
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Re: Take Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test" 2016/03/18 09:02:56 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby SteveStrummerUK 2016/03/18 10:17:34
That's why I asked that the files be made downloadable, which CW says is not possible due to copyright constraints. You're right, we're judging masters based on 128 kb/s MP3s, which might be a legitimate test if we assume the song has been mastered expressly for online streaming. SoundCloud does not, AFAIK, add any compression, though.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#77
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Re: Take Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test" 2016/03/18 09:54:53 (permalink)
It seemed to me that #2 and #4 were so similar that any perceived differences might be imaginary. So I downloaded them both and loaded them into Audition for an objective analysis (just measuring the first verse).
 
Sure enough, they were so close that I even began to wonder if Joey might have played a trick on us. The measured differences are well below anything that would be audible, whether looking at average RMS, total RMS, min/max RMS, peak amplitude, min/max sample values, level distribution or frequency spectrum.
 


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#78
SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Take Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test" 2016/03/18 10:03:13 (permalink)
Thanks for the clarification Dave.

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#79
Paul P
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Re: Take Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test" 2016/03/18 10:16:26 (permalink)
 
I just noticed that the vocal is a lot harsher at the end of the song than the beginning (hadn't listened all the way through before).  I much prefer the first part of the song.
 
post edited by Paul P - 2016/03/18 10:39:50

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#80
bandso
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Re: Take Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test" 2016/03/18 13:54:55 (permalink)
The page says to "please vote for your favorite master", so doesn't that make it a "master vs master" comparison and pick your favorite one?

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#81
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Re: Take Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test" 2016/03/18 17:09:56 (permalink)
I chose track #2 . Also track #4 sounds good but maybe with a little less dynamics...
For my ears the rest of the tracks are too boosted in the low end and sink the vocal in the busy parts.
#82
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Re: Take Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test" 2016/03/19 02:26:47 (permalink)
stevec
Soundwise
hueseph
if you had taken the time to match volumes you would have found that the transients were in fact more prominent in 2 and 4.

You can tell that just by looking at waveforms as well.




Exactly.     
 
I was listening on headphones, at work.  Level matching simply wasn't an option....    However, it was a real-world/outside the studio listening experience, as 99% of the target audience is likely to do.   
 


As a consumer, you turn up your player to a comfortable level. As a critical listener you should do the same for each individual track. Even then, you stated that you found the transients in 2 and 4 to be muted when clearly this is not the case.

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#83
Kev999
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Re: Take Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test" 2016/03/19 04:20:21 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby rtucker55 2016/03/19 10:27:37
hueseph
...the thwack of the snare is crushed into oblivion...

 
I find the snare drum in the choruses to be really irritating. The snare is least prominent in #1, so that's my favourite, even though it may fall short in other respects.

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#84
Starise
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Re: Take Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test" 2016/03/19 09:39:22 (permalink)
Very subjective to the individual. 
 
It sounds to me as if track 3 has had a more personal touch which I like. If it happens to be a LANDR track then I guess I've been LANDRED :)
 
 
To my ears it sounds like there has been personal attention to the bass and bringing out the mids. Like the mix has some human elements to it. 
 
 

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#85
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Re: Take Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test" 2016/03/19 22:35:34 (permalink)
I liked #4. 

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#86
Jeff M.
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Re: Take Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test" 2016/03/20 15:26:31 (permalink)
I liked version #3 the best.
#6 was my second fave, edging out #5 by a little bit.
 
 

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#87
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Re: Take Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test" 2016/03/20 18:21:23 (permalink)
Since it's open kimono time, I voted for #3 and commented (in the poll) that #5 was my second fav.
#88
ston
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Re: Take Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test" 2016/03/21 06:43:13 (permalink)
Another vote for the pre-master.
 
A very subjective test.  I'll be interested to find out which master was which though.
#89
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Re: Take Our Blind Mastering "Taste-Test" 2016/03/21 07:01:14 (permalink)
Close your kimono dude! Ha!

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