Take lane terminology for clips

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Splat
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2014/03/21 06:29:40 (permalink)

Take lane terminology for clips

Hi folks...
 
Please check this example... (nothing wrong with this behaviour just the way it's being indicated I think):
 
New Project
Add a new soft synth track.
Press record (in comp mode) and loop a part five times
View the take lanes
Comp the parts you want over the take lanes by highlighting several take lanes.
On the comp track, right click + Delete Muted takes
Observe the muted CLIPS are deleted, not muted takes.
 
Now...
 
What actually happens is the clips get deleted.
This behaviour seems reasonable enough as a facility, but shouldn't this be called on the menu: "Delete muted takelane clips?", we are not deleting takelanes :)
 
Or does a clip = a Take? How would "takes" be created after editing, a take is when you press record, and then press stop (or when a loop begins). It's sort of confusing in my view and needs to be clarified.
 
Or am I missing something?
 
Thanks
post edited by CakeAlexS - 2014/03/21 06:35:52

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    icontakt
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    Re: Take lane terminology for clips 2014/03/21 07:58:03 (permalink)
    Well, if asked to choose from....
     
    1. Delete muted take lanes
    2. Delete muted lanes
    3. Delete muted takes
    4. Delete muted take lane clips
    5. Delete muted clips
     
    I'd say #5 is probably the best (simplest and yet appropriate).
     
    (#1 and #2 are obviously wrong)

    Tak T.
     
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    Splat
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    Re: Take lane terminology for clips 2014/03/21 10:03:40 (permalink)
    I think #3 is obviously wrong as well. So toss up between #4 and #5.
     
    Well from my perspective is it should be specified that it's something to do with takelanes otherwise similar confusion could occur :) You need to link it to the functionality, so I vote #4.

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    neirbod
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    Re: Take lane terminology for clips 2014/03/21 10:09:10 (permalink)
    CakeAlexSThis behaviour seems reasonable enough as a facility, but shouldn't this be called on the menu: "Delete muted takelane clips?", we are not deleting takelanes :)
     
    Or does a clip = a Take? How would "takes" be created after editing, a take is when you press record, and then press stop (or when a loop begins). It's sort of confusing in my view and needs to be clarified.
     
    Or am I missing something?



    In the context of comping, I think "takes" and "clips" are essentially synonymous.  The menu item reads delete muted "takes" (i.e., clips), not "take lanes."  This seems accurate and logical to me, although it requires a slightly different way of thinking about what constitute a "take" in that one recording pass may be chopped into multiple clip segments that are then considered to be individual takes.
     
    In any event, it doesn't take long to figure out what Sonar means, so this is at worst a minor semantic issue.  
     

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    Splat
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    Re: Take lane terminology for clips 2014/03/21 16:26:38 (permalink)
    neirbod
    CakeAlexSThis behaviour seems reasonable enough as a facility, but shouldn't this be called on the menu: "Delete muted takelane clips?", we are not deleting takelanes :)
     
    Or does a clip = a Take? How would "takes" be created after editing, a take is when you press record, and then press stop (or when a loop begins). It's sort of confusing in my view and needs to be clarified.
     
    Or am I missing something?



    In the context of comping, I think "takes" and "clips" are essentially synonymous.  The menu item reads delete muted "takes" (i.e., clips), not "take lanes."  This seems accurate and logical to me, although it requires a slightly different way of thinking about what constitute a "take" in that one recording pass may be chopped into multiple clip segments that are then considered to be individual takes.
     
    In any event, it doesn't take long to figure out what Sonar means, so this is at worst a minor semantic issue.  
     


     
    A "take" is not a clip :).
     
    A take is:
     
    1) In between when you press start and when you press stop
    OR
    2) If you are looping multiple takes are created between loop began and end points.
     
    If a take were a clip, then everytime you edit a clip to create another clip, you would be creating another take?
    And everytime you do a comp you are creating more takes?
    And everytime you copy and paste a clip you are creating more takes...
    None of those make any sense whatsoever .
    A clip is a clip. A take is collections of clips during any one pass. A new take is created everytime a new takelane is made (see 1+2). 
     
    I think any way to give clarity to take lane functionality which can be confusing to some is important. The menu is misleading IMHO, it implies actual take lanes, or the full content of the take lanes will be deleted (maybe the take lanes with the mute button pressed). Total clarity avoids confusion, and there's been quite some confusion with takelanes in the past. Anything to simplify the understanding of the process around takeslanes should help people trying to get a grip of the functionality.
     
    Cheers...
    post edited by CakeAlexS - 2014/03/21 16:34:48

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    neirbod
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    Re: Take lane terminology for clips 2014/03/21 17:34:54 (permalink)
    CakeAlexS
    A "take" is not a clip :).
     
    A take is:
     
    1) In between when you press start and when you press stop
    OR
    2) If you are looping multiple takes are created between loop began and end points.
     



    In the general sense I agree. However specifically in the context of comping (as I noted earlier) I find it helpful to consider them as essentially the same thing.  Or more precisely, that all overlapping clips are individual takes of the same phrase regardless of whether they were tracked continuously or not.  Obviously two clips in different parts of the song are not different takes.
     
    Bottom line is that while "deleted muted take lane clips" may be slightly more accurate, the current phrasing does in no way interfere with my workflow.

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    stevec
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    Re: Take lane terminology for clips 2014/03/21 18:53:16 (permalink)
    ^^^^   what he said.
     
    In the context of takes & comping, the clips are where you actually see those takes on screen when you're finished. 
     
    Sure, after extensive editing each clip may no longer represent the original take.  But does it matter at that point?  I would think one would just delete the unneeded material and move on. 
     

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    Splat
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    Re: Take lane terminology for clips 2014/03/22 06:50:00 (permalink)
    neirbod
    CakeAlexS
    A "take" is not a clip :).
     
    A take is:
     
    1) In between when you press start and when you press stop
    OR
    2) If you are looping multiple takes are created between loop began and end points.
     



    In the general sense I agree. However specifically in the context of comping (as I noted earlier) I find it helpful to consider them as essentially the same thing.  Or more precisely, that all overlapping clips are individual takes of the same phrase regardless of whether they were tracked continuously or not.  Obviously two clips in different parts of the song are not different takes.
     
    Bottom line is that while "deleted muted take lane clips" may be slightly more accurate, the current phrasing does in no way interfere with my workflow.




    There's a difference between a take and a comp, and even different lanes for these :)
    Also a take lane is purely a container for a take that could end up having clips from elsewhere (not even from actual takes).
    Whilst I understand some people might be happy with what they have, I'm suggesting this is changed for clarity of documentation and for newbies who may be confused. I don't think what I'm suggesting is slightly more accurate, it's accurate. The other terminology is misleading....
     
    i.e. A banana skin is on the outside of a banana (takelane), inside is the flesh (clip). Bananas are picked or collected (take). The flesh can be sliced within, lined up in a straight line, and the slices can be arranged into a different order (comp).
     
    But at least it isn't destructive and yes people do notice what it does after they've done it. Cheers..
    post edited by CakeAlexS - 2014/03/22 15:27:02

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    stevec
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    Re: Take lane terminology for clips 2014/03/22 12:52:17 (permalink)
    http://www.cakewalk.com/support/contact/featurerequest.aspx
     
     
     
     


    SteveC
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    tacman7
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    Re: Take lane terminology for clips 2014/03/22 13:13:26 (permalink)
    I've seen a lot of vids about comping on X3 (and S1), but I don't see what to do when you're finished.
     
    So I would want to delete all the audio that was recorded making the takes and only keep the finished comp.
     
    Just to keep the pool clean and disk in order.
     
    What do you do to clean up after comping?
     
    Thanks
     
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    pghboemike
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    Re: Take lane terminology for clips 2014/03/22 15:24:21 (permalink)
    tacman7
    I've seen a lot of vids about comping on X3 (and S1), but I don't see what to do when you're finished.
     
     
    What do you do to clean up after comping?
     
    Thanks
     




    does this help from Cakewalk - Documentation & Help - SONAR X3 - Comping
    Finalizing the comp
    Removing all unused takes and empty Take lanes
     

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    icontakt
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    Re: Take lane terminology for clips 2014/04/26 02:40:53 (permalink)
    Reading the X3 reference guide, I came across this:
     
    "A take is any new data brought into a track. It can be recorded audio or MIDI, dragged-in loops, or imported files."
     
    http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation/default.aspx?Doc=SONAR%20X3&Lang=EN&Req=Arranging.43.html
     
    Hope that helps

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