Take lanes + VST3 functionality request

So, rebuild function on take lanes missing - makes them almost unusable {the purpose of rebuild is to separate doubled clips in one take lane and TO DELETE EMPTY TAKE LANE, it takes enormous time in big projects to search for empty take lanes and consolide graphical view}, it seems that CW doesnt listen to customers needs anymore.
 
Another fail is that you forgot to implement multiple MIDI input ports for VST3 based instruments - one of the most important features {must have for Vienna Instruments for example}
 
So for now, I dont know for what I really paid, some unusable NOMAD and XLN stuff? Thank you, I dont want this and please fix at least this important workflow issues.

stevec

BluerecordingStudios
So, rebuild function on take lanes missing - makes them almost unusable {the purpose of rebuild is to separate doubled clips in one take lane and TO DELETE EMPTY TAKE LANE, it takes enormous time in big projects to search for empty take lanes and consolide graphical view}, it seems that CW doesnt listen to customers needs anymore.
 

The comp video showed a "remove empty lanes" feature, so there should be no need to search for them.   Have you tried it?
 

If I'm reading the OP correctly I think what he (she?) expected was a Rebuild where clips that did not overlap end up in a single lane (like layers in X1) and what is happening is it is only removing empty lanes. Not sure I'd want to revisit the chaotic way Rebuild used to work but I could see his point. A proper rebuild function should probably work like this:
 
Hit rebuild.
 
Top lane is loaded with all the clips that do not overlap closest to the beginning of the timeline.
 
Once an overlap occurs they appear in the second lane and then any overlapping clips from that point forward (until another overlap occurs) get moved to this second lane.
 
Then it follows that throughout the project and any empty lanes produced by the process are removed.
 
Edited to remove derp... I think.

Beepster

stevec

BluerecordingStudios
So, rebuild function on take lanes missing - makes them almost unusable {the purpose of rebuild is to separate doubled clips in one take lane and TO DELETE EMPTY TAKE LANE, it takes enormous time in big projects to search for empty take lanes and consolide graphical view}, it seems that CW doesnt listen to customers needs anymore.
 

The comp video showed a "remove empty lanes" feature, so there should be no need to search for them.   Have you tried it?
 

If I'm reading the OP correctly I think what he (she?) expected was a Rebuild where clips that did not overlap end up in a single lane (like layers in X1) and what is happening is it is only removing empty lanes. Not sure I'd want to revisit the chaotic way Rebuild used to work but I could see his point. A proper rebuild function should probably work like this:
 
Hit rebuild.
 
Top lane is loaded all the clips that do not overlap closest to the beginning of the timeline.
 
Once an overlap occurs they appear in the second lane and then any none overlapping clips from that point forward (until another overlap occurs) get moved to this second lane.
 
Then it follows that throughout the project and any empty lanes produced by the process are removed.

Sonar X1 has this implemented as you remember and it was one of the best function in whole soft...
 

BluerecordingStudios
 
Sonar X1 has this implemented as you remember and it was one of the best function in whole soft...
 

 
Except it didn't work in an organized way like I described. It tossed non overlapping clips all over the place randomly and without maintaining the sequence in which the takes were recorded making it very difficult to figure out what take was what (no notes so you had to audition it all which was very time consuming).
 
And layers themselves were a bear simply because once you got to a certain number of them they took up the whole screen and got so small you could not edit them properly or even use the Solo/Mute buttons. At first I liked Layers until I started really using them then they drove me nuts. Lanes have thier problems (in X2) but I just find them much easier to work with despite the lack of a rebuild option.
 
I would however like to see a rebuild similar to what I described. The only drawback would be organizing the notes on Lanes that contained multiple takes but that could be fixed with some kind of Notes menu that allowed you to choose the note of specific clips within the lane.
 
There are other issues I'm starting to visualize with my method but they could be resolved as well with a little thought into implementation which I'm not going to theorize about today.
 
Either way thank you for letting us know about how the Lanes are working. Cheers.

So you're basically looking for a "consolidate lanes" command. Where, for each clip not on the top-most lane, if enough empty space is available in the lane above to accommodate that clip, it moves into that space. Correct?

Having watched the video on take lanes, I would say several important improvements have been made.  To start with, it looks like in a collapsed track the visible audio data will be that which is actual audible, rather than the impenetrable hodge-podge of yore.
 
For comping the new functionality looks very deep and well-considered.  God willing there will be no bugs. "Consolidate lanes" sounds like a move in the right direction.
 
I did not use track layers merely for comping, but also found other techniques which allowed for creative possibilities and simplified workflow.  Hopefully the more-developed iteration of take lanes will provide new possibilities outside of comping.
 
The idea of an "intended workflow" bothers me - I would prefer to have powerful tools with which I can develop techniques.  To an extent the designer's preconceptions necessarily drive the design, so that a hammer, for example, has a heavy flat nail-hitting part, and a stick, and a removing-nails part.  But hammers are hugely useful in all sorts of other cases - as a wedge, a lever, a club, a toy, etc.  A nail-gun, on the other hand, may well fasten things with nails very well, but it's fairly limited outside of that one purpose.

Bill Jackson [Cakewalk]
So you're basically looking for a "consolidate lanes" command. Where, for each clip not on the top-most lane, if enough empty space is available in the lane above to accommodate that clip, it moves into that space. Correct?

Wouldn't that (in the background of the cleanup pahse) be a bounce to clip like function?

"consolidate lanes" is a classic case of what I'm talking about.  For the specific workflow of comping takes it may not be necessary, since once the compositing is done the lanes can be collapsed and that's it.
 
However, if you're doing something else with those clips, it could be convenient to have all the clips in as few lanes as possible.  If you have a clip in each of a dozen lanes, it might be impossible to see them all at once, for example.

brian brock
For example, with the new clip envelope behavior (which I assume is unchanged in X3), clip envelopes are activated for every clip in a lane.  Perhaps you want to do something with those envelopes - independently of an already well crafted track envelope.  Collapsing the clips to one lane would enable that more easily.
 
I'm just thinking of random use scenarios here - the real benefit is in "unforeseen synergies".
 
I can't see any way that something like "consolidate lanes" would be a negative as an option.
 

 
One way it's negative: It takes dev time away from the implementation of other features and fixes :).  The real question is not "Is it harmful?," but "is it worth prioritizing?"
 
Keep the use case scenarios coming.  Definitely helps us establish priorities.
 
Thanks!

After watching the video, the new lanes implementation looks quite intuitive, actually. What could be easier than seeing both the clip take lanes and the comped master track together with coloration of the selected clips? Naturally, some will be put off because they're used to a certain manner of working, but I'll bet the rest will welcome the faster workflow. Tape and razor blades are still available for those who need them.

well, another thing I have done is add clip effects to manage certain things.  For example, sometimes a particular vocal phoneme has a problem, such as "wh" being overly aspirated.  I might split out syllable, and add a low pass filter just to tame that aspiration.  This kind of adjustment of clips was very easily done in the old "layers" implementation.  Rebuilding track layers was a part of that toolkit, and it allowed one in this type of case to easily see the clips all at once, and then perhaps to modify the crossfade.  I have for example made the fade-out of the effected clip overlap more than just the fade-in of the following clip.  That behavior is best enabled by expanding the layers or lanes, and without rebuilding or consolidating the clips may be far apart and need to be moved close to each other.
 
I'm not familiar with software development, but I would think that something like this wouldn't be terribly complicated to implement.  It's not new functionality, really, just a sort of "macro", isn't it?  As a former feature which was lost, it seems that at least the basic concepts of the programming for implementing rebuilding must be floating around at Cakewalk, right?

Bill Jackson [Cakewalk]

Beepster
 
 
Audiosnap 3.0
 
That is all.
 
;-)

That's a good idea ;) ...thinking...

That would be spectacular. Cheers.