Tannoy Ellipse speakers compressing?

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caminitic
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2016/05/28 17:10:20 (permalink)

Tannoy Ellipse speakers compressing?

I recently played tunes at a major A&R label in Nashville and the rep had a pair of amazing Tannoy Ellipse 10 speakers, that for lack of a better word, "compressed"...like big time...music at higher peaks/more bassy parts.  It was super annoying.  I'm trying to figure out what in the world would cause that...I'm pretty sure it's not the monitors. 
 
Best way to describe it was when the music hit a certain peak/volume/level...the ENTIRE volume dropped a whole bunch of dbs and it took a while for it to come back up to full volume.  Hard to make out the lead vocal, and the songs (which I've listened to on multiple sources and sound totally fine) were a complete mess.  It almost sounded like just the center channel was being dipped if I had to guess.
 
Any theories as to what could cause this?  Low end stuff seemed to trigger the unwanted effect the most.  I'm not sure what's going on with his computer/iTunes/soundcard, but I know him personally and wanted to help.  And selfishly help my songs and possibly others....  ;)
 
I'm hoping it's something as simple as a preset on his desktop or similar that's turned on accidentally.
 
Let the theories commence!!!  Thanks.
 
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    Jeff Evans
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    Re: Tannoy Ellipse speakers compressing? 2016/05/28 17:53:52 (permalink)
    I doubt it was the monitors. That is not their job. Sounds like some form of inappropriate processing that the signal was being forced through on its way to the monitors.

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    bitflipper
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    Re: Tannoy Ellipse speakers compressing? 2016/05/29 10:13:32 (permalink)
    Most small powered speakers have a built-in limiter to prevent damage. It could be they were simply driving the units too hard, to the point where the limiter was engaging. Although the speakers are rated at an impressive 118 dBSPL, so you should be able push them until your ears bleed.


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    caminitic
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    Re: Tannoy Ellipse speakers compressing? 2016/05/29 10:54:25 (permalink)
    Yeah this "limiting" or whatever was going on was so extreme that it made the songs almost unlistenable. It didn't dip everything evenly...I swear it sounded like just the center channel. Which of course swallowed the vocal.

    I may try to plug my phone or computer directly in next time I'm there to try and rule out the speakers. Definitely a strange occurrence.
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    tlw
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    Re: Tannoy Ellipse speakers compressing? 2016/05/29 12:38:30 (permalink)
    Any idea what the software playing the files was?

    If there was an automated limiter/volume leveller doing its thing it makes sense that the central part of the mix suffers most - the bass frequencies contain the most energy so trigger they limiter, which if it's overdone will then squish flat the higher central frequencies like the vocals. Too much limiting can remove punch rather than add it as well of course.

    While in theory the limiting on playback, done properly, should affect all frequencies equally, as we all know it doesn't if overdone.

    It occurs to me that maybe the playback system is hard limited to avoid the risk to employee's hearing of long exposure to high sound levels, and to reduce the effect of hearing fatigue. Especially for people who spend a lot of their work time listening to music.

    Or maybe they just want to hear what your tracks sound like when played through a really poor system when turned up to 11 with a built-in the graphic equaliser set to the traditional "everyone knows this makes music sound better" disk-jockey V with no mids in it at all.

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    Jeff Evans
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    Re: Tannoy Ellipse speakers compressing? 2016/05/29 13:50:43 (permalink)
    I am with Bit on this.  My Mackie HR 824's have a limiter but I am afraid it is as Dave says.  Your ears will bleed before it comes on and when it does the sound is not effected in any audible way.  It just keeps you happily at the ear bleeding level, won't let you go over it and it sounds terrific while doing so.  Tannoy would not have anything less.
     
    The bass end of the mix effects limiter baviour in powered studio monitors for sure though.  It is more likely to come on a little sooner if the low end is excessive and you have got them up loud.  But even so things are still very loud when this is going on in most decent monitors.

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    caminitic
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    Re: Tannoy Ellipse speakers compressing? 2016/05/29 18:14:56 (permalink)
    I didn't wanna snoop around the guy's PC but he literally popped a regular CD into his drive and pushed play. I don't know if iTunes was the player or some other PC player.

    Forgot to mention that he had a small Mackie mixer in between the computer and the speakers...I presume to offer more inputs for playback since a lot of writers play from their phone output and iPad etc. It was a cheesy 4-channel board with no onboard effects so I know that wasn't a factor.

    The suspense is killing me. Lol. Thanks for all the responses so far.
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re: Tannoy Ellipse speakers compressing? 2016/05/30 09:28:27 (permalink)
    He could very well have had either a hardware or a software limiter/compressor in the chain and had it set totally wrong. 
     
    Forgot to mention that he had a small Mackie mixer in between the computer and the speakers...I presume to offer more inputs for playback since a lot of writers play from their phone output and iPad etc. It was a cheesy 4-channel board with no onboard effects so I know that wasn't a factor.
     
    WHat do you mean it wasn't a factor...?  It was very likely the MAIN reason.
     
    The other point is ( and might be a moot point due to his mixer) .....  the fact that your song was triggering it so that the music was a mess.... I would  have to wonder why.   Are you using compression or some other things to kind of tame the peaks at all?  Is the song itself a hot mess of peaks or is it relatively even?  I understand the concept of dynamics and really try to keep my music vibrant in that respect, but by the same token, I seek consistency in the levels so that nothing is out of kilter in the music and on any given system, I'm not ripping subs out of their baskets or frying the high end tweeters.  Ideally, you wouldn't want the music to trigger the limiter so drastically.
     
    But of course, you could be doing everything absolutely right.... and it's just that the guy you saw was clueless on compressors and limiters and was doing what he thought he saw some studio engineer do or say in a recording/mixing session he happened to be attending. Just because he has an office and works with a major Nashville A&R firm doesn't mean he knows what he's doing in this respect. 
     
    It would be worth looking into to find out what went wrong because those A&R guys tend to go on what they hear and feel.... meaning, if the song doesn't sound good..... either poor recording or even if he has his playback system set wrong, your good song gets passed on.

    In the future.... don't rely on the A&R guy's rig.  Carry your own playback system that YOU KNOW and know for a fact sounds good.   A simply MP3 player, with the song cued up, and a nice little portable but decent sounding playback amp/speaker combo.... something that fits in a small back pack.... or can be easily carried. No huge boom box needed......  That way, you know the song will sound good and can be presented in it's best light.  Have a CD for the guy if he likes the song so he can listen again later..... but since first impressions count..... make sure it's a good one.


    Note: at our songwriter meetings, I always bring my own player. More then one time I have seen the leader's player not work right.... songs don't play, don't sound good, skip, you name it, and me, as a listener, well... I'm listening to the distractions and not focusing on the song. The A&R guy will be doing the same. So be sure you bring your own player from this point on. Getting into the A&R guys office is a big thing so don't blow it with a crappy playback on his computer. Many will not give you a second chance.

    good luck

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