bitflipper
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Teal and Orange
I ran across this 4-year-old blog entry recently, and it's ruined movie-watching for me. Except for extreme cases (e.g. Three Kings, The Matrix, Oh Brother Where Art Thou) I'd never really paid much attention to color manipulation. Now I see it everywhere, how digital TV and movie production has drifted further and further from reality. Of course there's an obvious analogy here to the evolution of music production in the digital age.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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craigb
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Re: Teal and Orange
2014/03/16 13:10:53
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I wonder how they would film St. Paddy's Day... Sad stuff. No wonder I never watch movies anymore!
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yorolpal
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Re: Teal and Orange
2014/03/16 13:25:32
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So that's why I love them two colors so dang much. I'll swan!
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sharke
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Re: Teal and Orange
2014/03/16 14:01:08
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I remember sometime in the mid to late 90's remarking that almost every music video had this kind of deep bottle green tinge to it. You can see an example in the video for Cher's "Believe" from 1998. I've also noticed that virtually all movie posters have the same kind of Photoshop processing. It's a kind of gold shimmer which makes everyone look like a wax dummy. In fact this generic processing on everything is part of what made me become so thoroughly bored of mainstream media.
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spacey
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Re: Teal and Orange
2014/03/16 14:46:17
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I watch mostly sci-fi ...not "real" color and auto tune soundtracks...why not? I get enough "real" 10 hours a day and get paid for that because it sucks so bad.
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Rain
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Re: Teal and Orange
2014/03/16 15:36:04
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I'd noticed, and it became even more obvious after I watched the making of Underworld - where it made sense to use this kind of colour treatment, imho. But yeah, they now systematically abuse it. Monkey see monkey do.
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paulo
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Re: Teal and Orange
2014/03/16 15:37:25
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The most obvious one being.... I'd never really noticed tbh, but then again I can't remember the last "new" film I felt compelled to watch.
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Rain
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Re: Teal and Orange
2014/03/16 15:40:59
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Just wait till someone has an idea to fake Eastman Color... We'll be in for 30 years of abuse of that.
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slartabartfast
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Re: Teal and Orange
2014/03/16 17:44:43
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This fooling with color is the least of it. Films like "The Three Hundred: have lifted the Photoshop effect brushes to create a gouache comic book presentation with hybrid human/cybernetic actors. And more and more real actors are starring with a cybernetic cast. "The Life of Pi" is not the end of the trend that started with "Who Framed Roger Rabbit." This kind of "visual wizardry" has begun to take on the instant cliché quality of the Cher vocal distortion effect in popular vocal music. On the other hand, why should a movie made for entertainment look "realistic." When all film makers had was black and white they did some amazingly inventive things with plain old light bulbs. The luminous quality of some of the most respected black and white films is highly praised by people who never felt the need to ask, "Where the heck is that light coming from?" And this stuff goes back to the Renaissance masters, whose paintings clearly did not always depict the source of light accurately.
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Old55
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Re: Teal and Orange
2014/03/16 18:01:39
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If it's a choice that the director and cinematogropher make, I'm usually OK with it. Just like they may also choose to go with monochrome if it fits the story. If it's just another gimmick like some films use 3-D, I'll probably hate it.
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Rain
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Re: Teal and Orange
2014/03/16 18:09:48
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slartabartfast On the other hand, why should a movie made for entertainment look "realistic." When all film makers had was black and white they did some amazingly inventive things with plain old light bulbs. The luminous quality of some of the most respected black and white films is highly praised by people who never felt the need to ask, "Where the heck is that light coming from?"
I absolutely agree that realism isn't the only option, nor is it mandatory. The problem is that most of the time it's not so much a matter of creativity as it is a simple matter of applying a formula. As long as it's part of a statement, I'm okay with it - but when it becomes a fashion, with no other purpose than to conform to the current trends, it becomes an automatism and a mere question of tools and processing power. We're so saturated that there's nothing inventive about it. That's not to mention that the largest part of the movies coming out these days seem to consist of re-boots of series that were re-booted not even 10 years ago, and spin-offs and remakes. I feel like I've been hearing about "the new X-Men movie" for 15 years now - there's always one. They're constantly remaking the same darn bunch of movies. And most of the time, the only thing new is that CGI allows to "improve" special effects. They mistake technical means and special effects for actual ideas.
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spacey
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Re: Teal and Orange
2014/03/16 18:30:44
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I can say without doubt that visual entertainment is amazing. I don't know how they do what they do, or care, but I know they've been blowing me away with one fantastic movie after another. ( my movie collection is probably three times bigger than my audio...sheesh...I remember when audio was great and video sucked) Their abilities and the quality have been amazing me for years. I'm glad that for a relatively small investment my family can enjoy a fantastic movie experience anytime we choose. Maybe liking orange and teal helps me in ways I never imagined :)
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slartabartfast
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Re: Teal and Orange
2014/03/16 19:12:30
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Rain I absolutely agree that realism isn't the only option, nor is it mandatory. The problem is that most of the time it's not so much a matter of creativity as it is a simple matter of applying a formula. As long as it's part of a statement, I'm okay with it - but when it becomes a fashion, with no other purpose than to conform to the current trends, it becomes an automatism and a mere question of tools and processing power. We're so saturated that there's nothing inventive about it.
I expect that most of what comes out of contemporary music studios could also be characterized as a rendering of a fashionable distortion of reality. When was the last time you heard a pop song without compression, reverb or equalization. We may not agree with the decisions made in tweaking the colors of video, but it is highly unlikely that the directors and effects specialists who have created this stuff consider themselves to be just applying a formula.
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craigb
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Re: Teal and Orange
2014/03/16 19:43:39
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So this is also why Christmas colors pop, ya? Green's opposite is red...
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drewfx1
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Re: Teal and Orange
2014/03/16 19:45:14
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 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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Old55
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Re: Teal and Orange
2014/03/16 19:56:43
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If you're looking for realism, you may want to check out films that are part of the Dogme 95 movement. They're minimalist in nature and mostly from Danish directors. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogme_95
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soens
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Re: Teal and Orange
2014/03/16 22:05:24
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See?! If they'd just stayed with B&W like I insisted they should 50 years ago, none of this would have happened! 
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Moshkiae
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Re: Teal and Orange
2014/03/17 10:05:56
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bitflipper I ran across this 4-year-old blog entry recently, and it's ruined movie-watching for me. ... Now I see it everywhere, how digital TV and movie production has drifted further and further from reality. ... an obvious analogy here to the evolution of music production in the digital age.
See a film called "Visions of Light". It is a documentary featuring several Oscar winning cinematographers, and then you will re-evaluate things a bit. The better film makers and folks that are in the history of film, DID use some coloring and such, but it was not exactly haphazard and neither was it, just another DAW and you make sure you make your song not miss a single beat in 78906454 measures of music! That's perfection, I guess! Color, is no different than "light" or "dark", in its ability to tell you something, and has been a part of stage design for hundreds of years, but this is not something that we are familiar with here in America, because we don't have a Beyruth, with some incredible sets, and the only thing we know is the crap that Broadway constantly re-hashes in musicals! You do not get to see some really far out and experimental stuff that gives you some nifty views into other worlds. This is what a lot of foreign music does for me, that some folks, I am not sure they are capable of handling as well, and get defensive about their favorite "method" or "style", when music itself, has less to do with that when created than it did anything else, up to and including how much breakfast you had or not! The further extent of this, will always be Jean Luc Godard, who does not do things with colors as much as he does with camera movements that throw you for a loop. Hollywood uses a shot/crossshot for conversations (look at soap operas), you see him, you see her, you see him, you see her (always twice!), and this is impractical from a literary point of view because YOU are the 3rd person on the outside, and you can't be one of those people. Therefore/thus, the camera is creating an ILLUSION that makes you think that you are supposed to feel like this and like that and have this emotional response. Now, after that exercise, you realize that Hollywood manipulates you even better, than the so-called artsy film makers and their work. But those film makers, specially in Europe, are much more aligned and aware of literature and the history of the arts, than people are in America, and that makes a difference! There they have a history of arts that is thousands of years old, and is very visible in many buildings. Here, they have nothing! The indian culture was nearly all wiped out, the black culture was almost all wiped out, and the culture that the new westerners brought was already a left over thing from Europe, that had been rejected by many people's there because of their own history! How is that for different "color"? Now comes the best one, and what's his name that likes Godard, and always copies him, Uma looked like Anna Karina for example, but he is not man enough to play around with the camera that Godard does, which displaces you even more. All of a sudden you go ... what am I supposed to pay attention to? AND THAT IS THE POINT! If you don't know, or care, now things are even more confusing! One famous example is his "pendulum" done from behind a guy and a girl discussing their relationship sitting on a bar in the stools, and the camera behind them. The camera doesn't bother with them, and does a complete tracking to the far left, and you see other folks and such, and then to the far right and you see other folks, and you realize, how much the film manipulates you. All of a sudden ... wait a minute! ... I didn't pay attention to their conversation ... I was watching whatever else was going on, which was nothing, of course! Now, you can see why "color" alone, is not the "only" thing that tricks you. And by the time you see a Gaspar Noe film, you are either going to throw up 3 times, or you gonna think that guy is insane and amazing at the same time! "Je Suis Seul" was an utter assault on your senses complete with sound effects out of place that sent people away from the theater, and "Irreversible" is the ultimate acid trip and then some. But these films are NOT RECOMMENDED to people that are used to top ten and popular pulp crap! If you are discussing the artisitc merits of Harry Potter, or King Kong, or Godzilla, then leave the rest of film alone! IT WILL NOT HELP YOU!
As a wise Guy once stated from his holy chapala ... none of the hits, none of the time ... prevents you from becoming just another turkey in the middle of all the other turkeys!
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Moshkiae
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Re: Teal and Orange
2014/03/17 10:14:05
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Rain ... That's not to mention that the largest part of the movies coming out these days seem to consist of re-boots of series that were re-booted not even 10 years ago, and spin-offs and remakes. I feel like I've been hearing about "the new X-Men movie" for 15 years now - there's always one. They're constantly remaking the same darn bunch of movies. ...
Rain, now you know why I tell you guys to check out different things! Because everything else you are hearing and seeing is exactly the same format, just a different note and lyric! There is so much out there in foreign film, and not one sees it! It's the same thing in music, art and literature! Sometimes, this country is no different than Putin and his own. It's top ten only for the good of the idea of the country and nothing else matters!
post edited by Moshkiae - 2014/03/17 10:15:25
As a wise Guy once stated from his holy chapala ... none of the hits, none of the time ... prevents you from becoming just another turkey in the middle of all the other turkeys!
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bitflipper
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Re: Teal and Orange
2014/03/17 11:51:00
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+1 for foreign films! They're more likely to not follow North American / European norms. Plots and characters are less-predictable, and cinematography relies more on technique than post-production gimmickry. I especially love Chinese, Japanese and Korean films for that reason. Unfortunately, foreign films are becoming more and more alike as the market for them becomes more global. Everybody wants to emulate the American style, even the French. The biggest moneymakers in French cinema have been American-style movies such as The Fifth Element (talk about your bright contrasting colors!). A Thai or Korean movie can only make so much money in the domestic market (the Korean film Shiri made more money in Korea than Titanic, but chances are you haven't seen it). Sometimes that cultural cross-polonization works. Check out some of the Chinese and Korean Westerns such as "The Good, the Bad, and the Weird" (Korea) and "A Woman, A Gun and a Noodle Shop" (China). Two of my favorites and highly entertaining. Both feature classic cinematography techniques from both Asian and American influences.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Guitarhacker
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Re: Teal and Orange
2014/03/17 12:12:27
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Me thinks it's all to set the mood... the teal is dark and ominous .... such films as batman/matrix/ sci-fi flicks like alien, predator, etc, and other along that line use very dark scenes.... the orange.... well, that imparts the old timey feel. Quite appropriate for Oh Brother.... but maybe not all the way through..... use it sparingly to give the feel of age, and in other flicks to denote time periods past when the plot jumps back and forth through time..... but that would be common sense.... and is Hollywood known for that attribute?
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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Rain
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Re: Teal and Orange
2014/03/17 23:25:03
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Moshkiae Rain, now you know why I tell you guys to check out different things! Because everything else you are hearing and seeing is exactly the same format, just a different note and lyric!
As a matter of fact Mosh, coming from the only French speaking province in North America, and one with a very singular culture, I was exposed to a different kind of culture by default, and one that's been exclusive to us in 90% of the cases. Some of that stuff sucked, but some of it is amazing and I feel bad for anyone who wasn't born in the right place to appreciate that. It also means that French (from France) cinema and culture have been part of my daily life almost from birth. I can read La Chanson de Roland in Old French just as well as I can read the Sweetwater catalogue. I studied French literature - and on my own time, I'd study "foreign" authors - Russian poets, German philosophers or the Beat Poets, etc - anything I could put my hands on. I was also an avid reader of anything related to art and painting, psychology and mythology - especially Greek mythology. I also took a few cinema classes. In fact, like Bit, I too am a die hard fan of Korean/Chinese/Japanese movies. So it's not a matter of awareness...
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craigb
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Re: Teal and Orange
2014/03/18 00:23:57
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I know I enjoyed Pan's Labyrinth, subtitles and all!
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