Technical description of synthesizers

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todd@withglee.com
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2012/06/20 18:36:57 (permalink)

Technical description of synthesizers

I just sent this message to customer support. I really don't expect a response, but if anyone reading this forum can help, I would appreciate it. I learned about the book "Cakewalk Synthesizers From Presets to Power Users" here ... but am really disappointed in it so far. My message to customer support: I'm trying to master Cakewalk's various synthesizers packed with Sonar X1 Producer. I'm not finding adequate documentation (e.g. what does each knob do and how are stages interconnected implicitly and explicitly). I bought the book "Cakewalk Synthesizers From Presets to Power User". I'm finding it coming up short as well. For example, he starts by describing the "obsolete" Triangle II synth and just drops very important information in asides. He says "With the PWM function operational the Filter LFO is used." If you don't read that one sentence you remain clueless about the operation of the synth. Also he says "turn the detune knob in the osc1 Multi section which has effect even if that section is not turned on" or "turn the multi detune knob which only has effect if the osc1 multi section is turned on and which gives you 8 oscillators instead of one". This is pretty key technical information. I should not have to find it through a criminal investigative process. Can you please point me to flow diagrams or something that shows how these synthesizers are put together. Without such a diagram and description, how am I supposed to learn how to use them? Trial and error is not an option nor is taking existing programs and tweeking them. Thanks for your attention to this matter. Regards Todd Marshall Plantersville, TX  
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    AT
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    Re:Technical description of synthesizers 2012/06/20 22:29:52 (permalink)
    What instrument do you play?  And synthesizers are a class of instruments - more like woodwinds or brass or strings since there are very many iterations included under the name synthesizer.

    There are so many possiblities it is impossible to say this is how a specific synth works.  And what you are asking is very technical.  It is almost impossible for a tech writer to run through all the permutations.  Most of the newer Cake synths (Rapture and Dimpro) have a pretty easy to follow scheme.  I would start w/ them.  The Triangle is an old, free synth.  But even on it (maybe esp. on it) a signal flow diagram would be pretty dang impressive.

    If you have the basics down of VA, sampling, FM and Additive, then it becomes a matter of trial and error.  Or just use the presets.

    @

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    todd@withglee.com
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    Re:Technical description of synthesizers 2012/06/21 10:00:24 (permalink)
     What instrument do you play? I play acoustic guitar. Am learning piano and lead guitar. I am learning MIDI and synthesizers because I don't play very well but know when something is well played. "There are so many possiblities it is impossible to say this is how a specific synth works." Well, so far it looks like they have oscillators, EG's, filters, and LGO's, delays, chorus, etc. Those aren't hard to explain individually. "And what you are asking is very technical." I have a degree in EE and have programmed since 1970. I have created a programming language (see WithGLEE.com) which may be applicable to music generation. I can do technical. "It is almost impossible for a tech writer to run through all the permutations." This is exactly my issue. Show me the components and how they are implicitly and explicitly connected and I can know the possible combinations and permutations. "But even on it (maybe esp. on it) a signal flow diagram would be pretty dang impressive." Exactly, and for someone who can read a flow diagram it would save a lot of words and misunderstanding. Are you saying it doesn't exist? Surely the guy who created it had a flow diagram. "If you have the basics down of VA, sampling, FM and Additive, then it becomes a matter of trial and error. Or just use the presets." One could say a person could learn a computer language by trial and error (it's called reverse engineering), but it's very very expensive and always leaves the possibility that you didn't get it right. The PC was cloned by Compaq through trial and error. Most of us just want to use the PC, not clone it. Thanks for taking the time to reply.
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    daveny5
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    Re:Technical description of synthesizers 2012/06/21 11:53:26 (permalink)
    Did you check the Help menu for the specific softsynth you're interested in? For example, if you click on the words "Dimension Pro" on the Dimension Pro properties screen and then press F1, you'll get the Dimension Pro manual. It does have a description of the interface and a signal flow diagram. That's about as much as you're going to get. 

    Dave
    Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F
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    todd@withglee.com
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    Re:Technical description of synthesizers 2012/06/21 12:45:16 (permalink)
    Finding documentation for Cakewalk products is a treasure hunt. Following the process you describe brings me nothing for Dimension Pro (though it acts like it's trying ... displays the animated processing icon for about a second or so). With Rapture LE it does work. With Pentagon it does not. With Z3TA+1 it works. Regardless, when I do find the documentation I read one paragraph and it creates two paragraphs of questions. A flow chart would answer many questions. Re Dimension Pro: The most useful help seems to be "C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\Dimension Pro\Documentation\DimensionPro.chm" Cakewalk seems to scatter things all over the place so I have to search my entire disk when I want to find something. Searching their website never returns anything worthwhile. And while I'm objecting, their documentation is marketing oriented (i.e. you "can" do this). It's not user oriented (i.e. here's "how" you do this and here's how we have laid out things). I have this objection with most software (e.g. Photoshop, Band-in-a-box). But I never cease to marvel at how good the software is once I finish my detective work.
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    Brando
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    Re:Technical description of synthesizers 2012/06/21 12:53:28 (permalink)
    The book you are referring to is excellent IMO. It is intended to encourage experimentation rather than to provide a cookbook methodology. 
    Learning synths is like that - 
    Personally I don't think there is a substitute - it's going to take a lot of time. I agree with all of the advice you've received so far. Read and experiment. (Have fun!)

    Brando
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    John
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    Re:Technical description of synthesizers 2012/06/21 13:18:14 (permalink)
    todd@withglee.com


    Finding documentation for Cakewalk products is a treasure hunt. Following the process you describe brings me nothing for Dimension Pro (though it acts like it's trying ... displays the animated processing icon for about a second or so). With Rapture LE it does work. With Pentagon it does not. With Z3TA+1 it works. Regardless, when I do find the documentation I read one paragraph and it creates two paragraphs of questions. A flow chart would answer many questions. Re Dimension Pro: The most useful help seems to be "C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\Dimension Pro\Documentation\DimensionPro.chm" Cakewalk seems to scatter things all over the place so I have to search my entire disk when I want to find something. Searching their website never returns anything worthwhile. And while I'm objecting, their documentation is marketing oriented (i.e. you "can" do this). It's not user oriented (i.e. here's "how" you do this and here's how we have laid out things). I have this objection with most software (e.g. Photoshop, Band-in-a-box). But I never cease to marvel at how good the software is once I finish my detective work.

    Make sure the synth is in focus and than press F1. Its help file will appear.  This is true for all CW plugins and synths.


    The documentation for CW products on the whole is outstanding. 


    Plus try the Cake TV listed up in the sticky section to view videos on various aspects of their products. 

    Best
    John
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    AT
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    Re:Technical description of synthesizers 2012/06/22 11:58:30 (permalink)
    Soundsource, Filter, Amp (x LFO + Envelope).




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    Mystic38
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    Re:Technical description of synthesizers 2012/06/22 12:57:22 (permalink)
    there is no chance that you will learn how to program all the cakewalk free synths...unless you want no time for music, or practice or any other aspect of life for several years... it takes people MONTHS to learn the intricacies of a single synth?.. yet every VA synth is the same and every VA synth is different... the block diagram IS as easy as AT indicates above.. but books wont help you.

    I suggest you pick one or two synths of current good repute, say Z3ta+ and dimension pro.. and focus on those...both have great help files, but no help file will help you program... and its not an unreasonable comment that if you cannot make the sound you want in one of those two... then your step is omnisphere or a Virus


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    A1MixMan
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    Re:Technical description of synthesizers 2012/06/22 13:22:21 (permalink)
    I've loaded several Cake vst's and none of them show the help file when I put them in focus and press F1. Why is that?

    A1
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    daveny5
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    Re:Technical description of synthesizers 2012/06/22 14:37:16 (permalink)

    It's not user oriented (i.e. here's "how" you do this and here's how we have laid out things). I have this objection with most software (e.g. Photoshop, Band-in-a-box). But I never cease to marvel at how good the software is once I finish my detective work.



    I agree that most companies don't spend enough time documenting their products. Usually there are 3rd parties that provide additional documentation, such as Scott Garrigus with Sonar. They pretty much give you basic instruction and then its up to you to learn by experimentation. 


    Even with classical instruments, like a trumpet, they will tell you what valves to press to get the notes, but a lot of other techniques you have to figure out or learn from someone else. There is no manual that says "here's how to play like Wynton Marsalis". 

    Dave
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    Mystic38
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    Re:Technical description of synthesizers 2012/06/22 15:17:37 (permalink)
    +1
     
    ..and its the same for synths... know the list of sources and destinations for a modulation matrix does not a good sound make :)
    There is no manual that says "here's how to play like Wynton Marsalis".


    HPE-580T with i7-950, 8G, 1.5T, ATI6850, Win7/64, Motu 828 III Hybrid, Motu Midi Express, Sonar Platinum, Komplete 9, Ableton Live 9 & Push 2, Melodyne Editor and other stuff, KRK VXT8 Monitors
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