SiberianKhatru59
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Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
I am being seduced by these Holiday bundles (who doesn't love a sale?) currently being offered as they seem like great deals -- especially the mixing and mastering bundle. But I am just really a self-taught and learning hobbyist with SONAR Platinum as a home studio moonlighter in my spare time. I did spring for the TH3 full version a while back because I am primarily a guitarist and I really do like it and I use that stand alone a lot. But it seems like SPLAT is chock full of features and plug-ins already at the same time. Does it have everything I need to get better at recording, mixing and mastering straight out of the box? I ask this in all seriousness because if you hang around audio forums long enough, people seem to just love after market plug-ins it seems to me! So is that because they've (generally speaking) reached the point of having outgrown what's included "out of the box" and need more specialized gear for specific applications, or is the included fare somehow not up to snuff? Would it be a good idea to think about getting this bundle for "one day down the road when I get better at this", or might it be better to wait until the need arises and possibly the tech gets even better?
Thanks.
SONAR Platinum, Win7 Home Premium 64bit, Sweetwater Creation Station CS250v21 (Ivy Bridge Core i5 3.4Ghz CPU, 12GB DDR3/1600Mhz RAM, 500GB/1TB Seagate Barracuda system/audio drives, SATA 6.0, USB 3.0), M-Audio Fast Track Pro USB, 2x KRK Rokit 5's, Yamaha MO8
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BobF
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/18 16:31:08
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☄ Helpfulby Zargg 2016/12/18 16:54:51
You will never have all of the plug-ins you need  What comes with Platinum can carry you quite far for a very, very long time. But why limit yourself? 
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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dwardzala
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/18 16:32:33
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The plug-ins included with Sonar are good. You can get pro sounding recordings using them if you know what you are doing.
Some of the third party plugins are great, but you still have to know what you are doing to get pro sounding recordings out of them.
In other words, you don't need to buy any additional plug-ins to get started. You may decide in the future that you want to, but Sonar Platinum has everything you need.
Also, even though you didn't ask, the same is generally true with their included virtual instruments.
DaveMain Studio- Core i5 @2.67GHz, 16Gb Ram, (2) 500Gb HDs, (1) 360 Gb HD MotU Ultralite AVB, Axiom 49 Midi Controller, Akai MPD18 Midi Controller Win10 x64 Home Sonar 2017.06 Platinum (and X3e, X2c, X1d) Mobile Studio - Sager NP8677 (i7-6700HQ @2.67MHz, 16G Ram, 250G SSD, 1T HD) M-Box Mini v. 2 Win 10 x64 Home Sonar 2016.10 Platinum Check out my original music: https://soundcloud.com/d-wardzala/sets/d-wardzala-original-music
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bapu
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/18 16:56:15
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☄ Helpfulby BobF 2016/12/18 19:09:40
BobF
You will never have all of the plug-ins you need
YaBoyHowdy.
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bitman
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/18 17:14:12
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All DAWS are fundamentally equal today with sugar here and sugar there.
If you need to get a handle on audio engineering SONAR will certainly suffice.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/18 17:22:22
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If you can't get a GREAT result using just the bundled plugins then it's not the software that's lacking.....
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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eikelbijter
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/18 17:38:47
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The bundled plugins are excellent as a matter of fact. One could make hit records all day long with just the Pro Channel plugs in Platinum, between the superb EQ, Tape SIM, Tube Sim, Console Emulator. I would suggest adding the CA-2A just because it's so easy to use!
R
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slartabartfast
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/18 17:47:25
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☄ Helpfulby SiberianKhatru59 2016/12/18 19:08:58
SiberianKhatru59
Does it have everything I need to get better at recording, mixing and mastering straight out of the box?
Therein lies the key. You can purchase a gazillion items of audio software in an effort to make your recordings perfect. Each will have its unique advantages, but most will fall into a standard category. If you do not learn how to use each basic category into which each plugin falls, then, owning a gazillion representatives of the category is not very useful. If you have not mastered the use of the plugins that come with Platinum, then absolutely, there is everything you need in platinum to make yourself better. Maybe not everything you need to turn out the best state of the art recording that can come from any professional recording, mixing or mastering studio, or enough so that you can walk into such a studio and function without learning anything new, but enough to make your own efforts in these areas better than it is now. If you have mastered all the stuff that comes with Platinum, then you might need to look elsewhere for a challenge. You do not buy more stuff to make you better, you buy more stuff to make your product better, and until they invent a plug that fully automates the process, you will still have to learn the use of anything you buy. When you have exhausted the learning opportunities in SONAR...
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SiberianKhatru59
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/18 17:54:02
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eikelbijter
The bundled plugins are excellent as a matter of fact. One could make hit records all day long with just the Pro Channel plugs in Platinum, between the superb EQ, Tape SIM, Tube Sim, Console Emulator. I would suggest adding the CA-2A just because it's so easy to use!
R
Actually I got the CA-2A a while back when it was free. Thanks again Cakewalk! I was using the mixing tutorial project that comes with SONAR this weekend, and I had a blast with that. I even added a Rapture session pad task to it, bounced it to audio and mixed it in as well. I created both a Reverb and Delay bus and used sends from a few channels for that, as well as bussing all the drum tracks together. All very educational and for the first time, I felt life it all clicked home a bit. And the mix sounded pretty good really, I thought. It's good to know I'll be set fit a while apparently.
SONAR Platinum, Win7 Home Premium 64bit, Sweetwater Creation Station CS250v21 (Ivy Bridge Core i5 3.4Ghz CPU, 12GB DDR3/1600Mhz RAM, 500GB/1TB Seagate Barracuda system/audio drives, SATA 6.0, USB 3.0), M-Audio Fast Track Pro USB, 2x KRK Rokit 5's, Yamaha MO8
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/18 17:56:24
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☄ Helpfulby SiberianKhatru59 2016/12/18 19:08:33
Hear, hear!
There are certainly "better" (or sometimes just different) plugins available than what comes with SPLAT, but if you don't really know why you need them, then you don't. Once you have a good handle on how, say, compressors work, start trying the different ones you have on your source material. It takes time to learn what their strengths and weaknesses are and even after years sometimes you can be surprised. Once you feel you can confidently pick one of your compressors for a specific job is when you might want to shop for others that offer specialized uses or just sound different. Same for other plugins. If you know how the reverb plugins work and you still can't get the sound you need you might want to shop, not before.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/18 18:10:41
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It's not just the plug ins in my opinion.
Its the Region FX. I use all 3 of them and often. those 3 Region FX right there is what makes sonar unique from the other DAW's.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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KingsMix
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/18 18:35:51
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dwardzala
The plug-ins included with Sonar are good. You can get pro sounding recordings using them if you know what you are doing.
Some of the third party plugins are great, but you still have to know what you are doing to get pro sounding recordings out of them.
In other words, you don't need to buy any additional plug-ins to get started. You may decide in the future that you want to, but Sonar Platinum has everything you need.
Also, even though you didn't ask, the same is generally true with their included virtual instruments.
+1 Well put.
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Anderton
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/18 19:02:06
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☄ Helpfulby SiberianKhatru59 2016/12/18 19:08:01
The only plug-in I find lacking in SONAR is a good multi-band maximizer, but if you're willing to make the effort, you can fashion one out of multiple LP MBs with each one followed by a Concrete Limiter (a ProChannel module I highly recommend).
As to your original question, no less a luminary than Mick Jagger himself answered this question many years ago...apparently he could see into the future, and saw what SONAR would become:
"You can't always get what you want.
But if you try sometimes
Well you just might find...
You get what you need."
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SiberianKhatru59
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/18 19:17:57
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Such great answers, thanks folks. I guess I'll just sit tight, dig in and learn all I can with what I have already. Heck, I still don't really know all I've got at my fingertips as it is
Are there by any chance any other tutorial or freeware SONAR projects out there on the net to home my mixing and mastering skills on?
SONAR Platinum, Win7 Home Premium 64bit, Sweetwater Creation Station CS250v21 (Ivy Bridge Core i5 3.4Ghz CPU, 12GB DDR3/1600Mhz RAM, 500GB/1TB Seagate Barracuda system/audio drives, SATA 6.0, USB 3.0), M-Audio Fast Track Pro USB, 2x KRK Rokit 5's, Yamaha MO8
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Anderton
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/18 19:27:46
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☄ Helpfulby SiberianKhatru59 2016/12/18 22:27:17
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chuckebaby
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/18 19:29:59
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Groove 3 has a decent video on mixing in Sonar (I think its even for X1, most of it still applies).its got some great fundamental tips. It goes through and mixes a whole song (Rock) 1 track at a time.
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SiberianKhatru59
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/18 19:31:22
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Thank you for this, much appreciated.
SONAR Platinum, Win7 Home Premium 64bit, Sweetwater Creation Station CS250v21 (Ivy Bridge Core i5 3.4Ghz CPU, 12GB DDR3/1600Mhz RAM, 500GB/1TB Seagate Barracuda system/audio drives, SATA 6.0, USB 3.0), M-Audio Fast Track Pro USB, 2x KRK Rokit 5's, Yamaha MO8
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SiberianKhatru59
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/18 19:37:41
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All to be fair, I know how to mix - I just don't know how to mix if that makes sense. I took the X2 course out at Lynda.com by Garrick Chow and it gave me the lay of the land pretty well. I understand things like panning, EQ and levels but the tricks are in the best ways to use these things. This is where I am at present and at least it's a fun journey lol
SONAR Platinum, Win7 Home Premium 64bit, Sweetwater Creation Station CS250v21 (Ivy Bridge Core i5 3.4Ghz CPU, 12GB DDR3/1600Mhz RAM, 500GB/1TB Seagate Barracuda system/audio drives, SATA 6.0, USB 3.0), M-Audio Fast Track Pro USB, 2x KRK Rokit 5's, Yamaha MO8
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bapu
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/18 19:50:10
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☄ Helpfulby tlw 2016/12/19 13:00:03
"how to mix" is something I hope to continue to learn until I'm no longer walking the earth.
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SiberianKhatru59
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/18 21:29:27
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This is interesting. I always kind of thought a compressor was a compressor was a compressor, except for layout and so called workflow. I hear you saying they sound different and that one may be better than another for a certain sound. I've got a lot to learn!
SONAR Platinum, Win7 Home Premium 64bit, Sweetwater Creation Station CS250v21 (Ivy Bridge Core i5 3.4Ghz CPU, 12GB DDR3/1600Mhz RAM, 500GB/1TB Seagate Barracuda system/audio drives, SATA 6.0, USB 3.0), M-Audio Fast Track Pro USB, 2x KRK Rokit 5's, Yamaha MO8
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JohanSebatianGremlin
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/18 21:32:14
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☼ Best Answerby SiberianKhatru59 2016/12/18 22:26:21
All the responses above answer you question completely. Everything required to make great recordings is included with Sonar except talent. You have to bring that.
All that being said, chances are you are like most other Sonar/DAW users out there which means the following will most likely apply to you. You don't NEED any plugins not already included with Sonar. That being said, you WILL end up adding more. You won't need them, but you will buy them and you will appreciate them once you have them.
The most important thing to remember that every bit of marketing every music software and equipment vendor puts out there is designed from the ground up to convince you that your output is suffering from a lack of quality that can only be improved by use of their product. You had no idea you needed the Led Brick Limiter Plus until you saw the ads. And now when you listen to all your recordings, they are all clearly lacking that magic sonic glue that only the Led Brick Limiter Plus can bring. And if you act now, you can get Led Brick Limiter Plus along with The Phil Spector Hair Compressor and the Abby Road Invoicer for the bargain price of $299 yada yada yada. Don't get sucked in.
Only add plugs when they bring real benefit. That benefit can be sonic or it can just improve workflow. The point is don't get sucked in to the hype. If you add a plug, make sure it earns its keep and does something useful.
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SiberianKhatru59
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/18 22:25:28
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JohanSebatianGremlin
All the responses above answer you question completely. Everything required to make great recordings is included with Sonar except talent. You have to bring that.
All that being said, chances are you are like most other Sonar/DAW users out there which means the following will most likely apply to you. You don't NEED any plugins not already included with Sonar. That being said, you WILL end up adding more. You won't need them, but you will buy them and you will appreciate them once you have them.
The most important thing to remember that every bit of marketing every music software and equipment vendor puts out there is designed from the ground up to convince you that your output is suffering from a lack of quality that can only be improved by use of their product. You had no idea you needed the Led Brick Limiter Plus until you saw the ads. And now when you listen to all your recordings, they are all clearly lacking that magic sonic glue that only the Led Brick Limiter Plus can bring. And if you act now, you can get Led Brick Limiter Plus along with The Phil Spector Hair Compressor and the Abby Road Invoicer for the bargain price of $299 yada yada yada. Don't get sucked in.
Only add plugs when they bring real benefit. That benefit can be sonic or it can just improve workflow. The point is don't get sucked in to the hype. If you add a plug, make sure it earns its keep and does something useful.
Man this is timely. I am at my heart a minimalist and I just watched a documentary on minimalism that spoke in detail about marketing and the way people are wired. Marketing is strong motivator, no doubt. But I don't like buying stuff for the sake of buying stuff anyway. We all try to catch lightning in a bottle, but I'd really rather learn methods and techniques that would allow me to do a decent job with any gear I have at hand than to wander down a path of buying, failing rinse and repeat.
SONAR Platinum, Win7 Home Premium 64bit, Sweetwater Creation Station CS250v21 (Ivy Bridge Core i5 3.4Ghz CPU, 12GB DDR3/1600Mhz RAM, 500GB/1TB Seagate Barracuda system/audio drives, SATA 6.0, USB 3.0), M-Audio Fast Track Pro USB, 2x KRK Rokit 5's, Yamaha MO8
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microapp
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/19 04:50:36
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☄ Helpfulby JohanSebatianGremlin 2016/12/19 06:49:04
Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?No, you have to add unbending intent, unquenchable desire and a lot of blood, sweat and tears. LOL.
JohanSebatianGremlin is 100% spot on. Learn to use the Cake plugs inside out.
Concentrate on methods and techiques as you said.
You will know when you need something more.
If gear was the determining factor, we would all have a shelf full of Grammies and a pocket full of change.
Sonar Platinum, Cubase Pro 8.5, Reaper 5, Studio One 2Melodyne Studio 4, Finale 2012I7-5820K 4.5GHz, 32 GB DDR4-2800,3 monitors,Win 10 ProToshiba P75-A7100,l7-4900 2.4 Ghz/8MB Win 8.1 ProTascam FW-1884, Emu 0404USB, CMC-AI,Axiom 61Yamaha HS-50's, Sony SA-W2500, Sennheiser RS170's, ATH-M50Ibanez Jem7VWH, RG-1570Jackson DK2-S(Sustainiac),Les Paul CustomDigitech Valve-FX, GFX-1,TSR-24,RP-90
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JohanSebatianGremlin
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/19 06:47:50
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microappIf gear was the determining factor, we would all have a shelf full of Grammies and a pocket full of change.
I am stealing this for my sig line. Thanks!
If gear was the determining factor, we would all have a shelf full of Grammies and a pocket full of change. -microapp i7, 32gb RAM, Win10 64bit, RME UFX
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/19 10:47:10
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As far as a SPlat minimalist approach goes, I got on board with that idea last year pretty much by accident when I decided to pick up a secondary lap top during a B F sale ...
This machine did not have various SONAR upgrades on it , nor did it have a lot of 3 rd party plugs and synths installed because I decided to keep it totally lean and mean...( my main computer had all that stuff on it anyway )
A very interesting thing started happening to me .
Since I didn't have a bunch of clutter on the secondary machine I didn't have to wade through what seemed like thousands of other distracting things and choices just to get something happening ...
From my point of view it seemed like much less of an energy drain was taking place....
At the very least it gave me the opportunity to get more familiar with some of the new features and tools that come w SONAR ...
Now I won't say that I was magically transformed into some sort of a power user or anything like that ...
For me to make any sort of progress I have to treat SONAR as if it's a musical instrument where I'm sitting down consciously sitting there in the woodshed learning SONAR as if I was learning how to play a new tune that has a lot of changes to blow over ...
I did get a little better in a couple of areas and I still have a long ways to go ..
all the best,
Kenny
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thedukewestern
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/19 11:02:19
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Be the first one who thinks that you can Sonar Platinum, Windows 7 64 bit - clean install January 2016, Focusrite Pro 40, Outboard Pres, Native Instruments Komplete, Izotope, PSP, Melodyne, Vegetarian
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aspenleaf
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/19 11:46:10
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No.
All the plugins in the world won't make a poorly recorded track sound good. Start with the basics. Learn to use your mics to make recordings that sound good without any plugins, then you can learn to use plugins or external processors in a creative way, not as a way to fix a poor recording.
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microapp
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/19 12:06:18
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JohanSebatianGremlin
microappIf gear was the determining factor, we would all have a shelf full of Grammies and a pocket full of change.
I am stealing this for my sig line. Thanks!
No problem, I'll make more. I do appreciate the credit in the sig.
Sonar Platinum, Cubase Pro 8.5, Reaper 5, Studio One 2Melodyne Studio 4, Finale 2012I7-5820K 4.5GHz, 32 GB DDR4-2800,3 monitors,Win 10 ProToshiba P75-A7100,l7-4900 2.4 Ghz/8MB Win 8.1 ProTascam FW-1884, Emu 0404USB, CMC-AI,Axiom 61Yamaha HS-50's, Sony SA-W2500, Sennheiser RS170's, ATH-M50Ibanez Jem7VWH, RG-1570Jackson DK2-S(Sustainiac),Les Paul CustomDigitech Valve-FX, GFX-1,TSR-24,RP-90
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dwardzala
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/19 12:55:52
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aspenleaf
No.
All the plugins in the world won't make a poorly recorded track sound good. Start with the basics. Learn to use your mics to make recordings that sound good without any plugins, then you can learn to use plugins or external processors in a creative way, not as a way to fix a poor recording.
What else should Sonar include to make it so that someone could get a handle on audio engineering? Sonar has all the tools and it makes no promise that what you record into it or produce out of it will be great. Like all tools, knowledge and experience are needed to make something of quality using them. And while getting it right at the source is important, it is only one step is a long chain. It starts with the song. If the song sucks, a great performance isn't going to make it great. And if the performance sucks, the best mic's and recording techniques are not going to make it great. And if the recording sucks, no amount of plug ins, barking dogs or car horns are going to make it great. And if the mix sucks, no amount of mastering is going to make it great. And if the finished, mastered track sucks, no amount of marketing is going to make it great (but it might make it a lot of money.)
DaveMain Studio- Core i5 @2.67GHz, 16Gb Ram, (2) 500Gb HDs, (1) 360 Gb HD MotU Ultralite AVB, Axiom 49 Midi Controller, Akai MPD18 Midi Controller Win10 x64 Home Sonar 2017.06 Platinum (and X3e, X2c, X1d) Mobile Studio - Sager NP8677 (i7-6700HQ @2.67MHz, 16G Ram, 250G SSD, 1T HD) M-Box Mini v. 2 Win 10 x64 Home Sonar 2016.10 Platinum Check out my original music: https://soundcloud.com/d-wardzala/sets/d-wardzala-original-music
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aspenleaf
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/19 13:07:55
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The OP wanted to know if Sonar Platinum comes with everything needed to get a handle on audio engineering. No, it doesn't.
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