Tempo, meter, 1-bar detection problems using Set Project Tempo From Clip.

 
Sonar Professional
Problem: Can’t sync up my measures correctly and have Sonar sense correct tempo and meter using Set Project Tempo From Clip.
 
First: I apologize for the long post and request. I’m fairly new to Sonar and the technology (although I have a lot of analog engineering and recording background), and the Cakewalk Support People have been MIA.  Also, FYI - I’ve read, studied, and tried the manual info.
 
Background: 24 track recording were done on Alesis HD24 a while back.  Used HD24 Tools to convert tracks/songs to wave files, and made available to Sonar (no problems in that regard).  Note: No Midi was used on these tracks/songs.  I have been dubbing/recording and premixing with effects and processing without issue, but the tempo Sonar is displaying, and the track orientation to the 1-beat, and the actual bar meter in reference to the tracks, is incorrect.
 
Objective: To use the Set Project Tempo from Clip (or any other function needed) to get a song’s correct measure sync, meter, and tempo.
 
I had a phone/go-to-meeting session with the Support People, and they/he tried, but could not solve the problem.  They were going to research and get back to me.  He did let me know that he had a solution, but didn’t call me back on the appt time we booked, and they have not responded since to my other inquiries in regard to the case #’s.
 
All the songs have 4 beats per measure click tracks (generated in the original HD24 recording), so that is what we used to Set Project Tempo From Clip (we also tried the snare track when the click track didn't work).  The result was 60 bpm, instead of the actual 120 bpm, and the beats per measure were off, and measures were not aligned to the 1-beat.
We did get the tempo correct in one instance (120 bpm), but on all the other tries, it would only interpret 60 bpm, also the beats per measure and 1-beat were still off.
 
Support said it may be because there was blank space at the beginning of the track before the click and count starts.  He rushed thru the process to globally delete this space on all the tracks/clips, but he blasted thru it and did give explanation of what he was doing, and I didn’t get the process down.
 
Request: Can anyone give me some specific, detailed suggestions to: 1) Globally delete the blank space at the beginning of the song tracks (if you think that is the issue), 2) Deal with the Set Project Tempo From Clip process (or any other available process), so that I get the 4/4 meter, with the 1-beat lined up correctly, with the correct tempo?  Thanks for your help.

Great.  Thanks Ken. I'll let you know the result when I get a chance to try your suggestion.  Any ideas on why the Project Tempo to Clip is not doing the job it was created to do?  It seems that if it can't interpret a 4 beat click track's tempo correctly, there is something lacking in that tools design.

clegs
Great.  Thanks Ken. I'll let you know the result when I get a chance to try your suggestion.  Any ideas on why the Project Tempo to Clip is not doing the job it was created to do?  It seems that if it can't interpret a 4 beat click track's tempo correctly, there is something lacking in that tools design.

The process of tempo detection that Ken describes is a much more recent and functionally richer feature than project tempo from clip. Saying that something is lackling in the original tool is a bit like saying the wheel was poorly invented because it was not immediately attached to a Porsche 911:)

brundlefly
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I can't really agree with 'functionally richer' in general, and it's definitely not the case if you haven't upgraded Melodyne from the Essential version bundled with Sonar.

 
You are right Brundlefly - I expressed that poorly, but I do find it easier to get a good result quickly, out of the gate with melodyne's new tempo mapping.

Give us some feedback as to how it goes.
All the best.

Wow, sorry to wait a year to get back to you . . . very busy with other stuff.  FYI - I upgraded to Platinum from Professional.
 
I was only able to get an accurate tempo calculation from Ken's Melodyne suggestion.  It was 124 B PMdead on.  Actually, I only had 4 bars of click at the beginning of this particular song (the rest of the click trk was recorded over when I only had 24 trks on my HD24). I selected that clip section, then click Region FX>Melodyne, and without dragging the clip to the Time Ruler, Melodyne did it's thing and gave me the correct tempo, which I input in the Tempo View and it was all good, perfect, all the measures lined up.  However, a post HD24 vocal track that was recorded in Sonar was out of sync and I have to manually correct it's position. Anybody have ideas on why this happened? It's like Sonar didn't didn't treat it as part of the other tracks.  This also happened anytime I tried to use the Set Measure Beat to Now Time trick.
 
I had another related problem, which was not being able to correct Beat 1 (Sonar was showing beat 1 as beat 2). I was getting error and can't-do messages.  Ken's Karl Rose Video suggestion  cleared that part up. You have to use the Audio Snap Pallet Edit Clip Map on a solid track like the snare or kick (or click), then at the beginning of the song, drag Measure 1 Beat 1 (1:1) marker to the actual first beat of the song.  Then, you must correct the beats before 1:1 (the count or whatever section) to be in the correct order (Ex: 0:1, 0:4, 0.3, 0:2, etc., to 0:1, 0:2, 0:3, 0:4); then you won't get error messages when you try to use the Set Measure Beat to Now Time.  Once that's done, (if you don't have the correct tempo for the song calculated or the tempo varies) you can go thru the song from beginning to end and watch the transients and if they drift off the measures, stop and drag the drifted transient (all the measures following it will also move) and allow it to Snap To Grid to the correct measure.  As you progress thru the song, you'll see that the tempo will show changes, but if the song tempo is fairly consistant, will show as more accurate, and all the measures and beats will line up correctly.  After you're through, go to the Tempo View and review the tempo throughout the song.
 
I think this is only going to be a problem on projects recorded out of Sonar (like my HD24 converted to wav files with a program called HD24 Tools, and imported into Sonar, or projects recorded without a click track or proper beginning (dead time) and count.  Note, Scott Garrigus's Sonar book is amazing and a must have, a great reference; however the solutions he suggested in the book did not work for me or cover the other things I discovered, but more likely they were just not understood well enough by me (probably the latter Scott).  
 
Thanks for your help and let me know what you think about the orphan track out of sync problem I mentioned in the first part of this post.  Thanks. :) -colin in Calif.

The Post-HDR vocal didn't move with the rest of the clips. Before setting the project tempo, either drag the beginning of that clip to the very beginning of the timeline, or right click and Lock the clip position.