ProMusic27

Jind


As was stated, the ProChannel modules are VSTs under the hood, Cakewalk has simply wrapped them in a console like emulation GUI to provide the ease of use features that many of us, that like the idea, find a welcome workflow enhancement.  It's not a replacement for VST support, it's an alternative (completely optional) tool.  I can't see any reason why it has to be an either/or proposition as many people are painting it to be.  A DAW is just a DAW, we choose our DAW products not for their similarities in most cases, but for how their features (not related to the core functionality of recording either MIDI or audio) impact our use of the product - I look at ProChannel as a workflow feature that Cakewalk offers to differentiate themselves in a large pack of competing products, nothing more, nothing less.  At least its optional - meaning you don't have to buy into it or even like it - they have a version of their product without it if you have issues with it - the core product is still the core product. 

If you do like the workflow of using them - are you locked into Sonar?  I guess so, but you knew that the moment you bought into it, no one forced anyone down this path.  Is it proprietary?  Yes, but I don't look at it in the same light as VST which is a current standard, ProChannel is more of a Cakewalk only feature - one expects VST support in a fully functional DAW they use these days, that's what a standard is; one does not have to have ProChannel support - it's a something Cakewalk has offered Sonar users as a tool that differentiates them from another DAW.  If it weren't for different features what would make you choose one product over another - essentially a DAW is just a product to capture recordings, it's the features that make you select one over another.  Cakewalk wants you to choose them - so they add things to the mix that they think will make different.  

No one chooses a product for it's sameness - if we did we would all be driving one model of a car, or eating the same meal every day.  

Agreed... But,lets pretend I am cooking some chicken in my oven and you are making some pasta in your microwaves... Different meals, different metods... But I can use salt on both... s-pice can be used on both... And thats what I imagened would be the future of the DAWs...Like you said, we gor for the tools we like the most... But, for me, the more interaction, the better... 


Then, maybe Reason would be no longer "rewireable" in the future... I would like to Rewire Sonar in Cubase or vice/versa...


Looks like Reason is going for a more close than open structure...Even with this RE's feature... They are going for independence.


Maybe CWs too... And everybody else...

I see this as a smart business decision by Cake. Users have requested a slower development/release cycle for SONAR (the old annual upgrade appears to be a thing of the past) and more free upgrades to the basic functionality of SONAR itself. I think this is exactly what Cake has been doing. By releasing the PC modules they are providing themselves with a steady source of revenue, and by "crippling" - (I don't feel that way as I like the PC approach in general - but this term has been used more than once) the modules to be available only in SONAR, they are at the same time encouraging users to stay within the SONAR product line. (something that I think happens naturally through a new product release cycle via the excitement that comes along with it).
I don't see how anyone can't see this as a win-win. If people don't want to partake in the PC approach, they benefit from Cake's stated (and demonstrated) intention to make SONAR the best it possibly can be - more stable, improved workflow-  at no additional cost during the existing product's life span - whatever that ultimately ends up being.
The small price to pay for those who do go the PC route, is the fact that you are locking yourself into the SONAR product line. Not really any different that other DAW supplier's who tie their VSTs to exclusive use in their DAW.

stevec

And where is this notion that they are VSTs coming from?

 
I think it was Noel who at some point stated just that.   Plus, when you add a new PC module, the VST scan must be run.  
 

 

well put...

Let's be realistic... it'd be downright silly to not package them up as VST widgets in singles and bundles somewhere down the road. That's what happened w/ the sonitus plugs, right? Implementing them as VST at the core just makes business sense.

 
Hmmm... that's not a bad business plan.   
 
Whether it ever happens... Who knows.  But if the FX have the right quality/price combination they would probably do well as standard VSTs.  Or, perhaps they (at some point) choose select PC modules for this concept, those that have the best potential.  Like the new LA2A -  it seens to be doing pretty well for itself already, even in a "me-too" market.
 

So please, CW, keep making it "worse".   Some of us actually like it that way.   

I couldn't agree more, analyser next please, pretty please...

My biggest concern w/ the ProChannel is that I really believe they need to come up w/ a routing system that allows you to have flexible routing options between ProChannel and plugs in the fx bin. If they do that then the sky's the limit imo.

PC = Optional

Enough said

Not optional if you're a fanboi, Lance. FBB and his clones will buy anything that's put in the Cake store.

'Yet' - I admire your 'pretend' iron will but you'll be in there buying two just because Cakey wakey baked it.

I mustn't let on that I bought Z3TA+2 when it came out and an expansion pack and I tend to play rock music.

John

Isn't the 64bit Sonar plugs all VSTs? The Perc/vocal channel, etc...?

No some are DX.

Sometimes a brand name becomes the generic name for a class of like things.  Often people here call all plugins VSTs. X1 producer supports VST and DX and now the PC standard.

X1 Studio supports VST and DX.

Actually it's only SONAR X1 Producer Expanded that supports additional (to the basic collection) PC plugins

PC modules are indeed VST's at heart. They however have extra hooks (vendor specific API's in VSTspeak) that allow the enhanced functionality to allow them to reside in the PC bin and tightly integrate with SONAR. The original set of PC components prior to expanded were UI less VST's - i.e, the UI is drawn by SONAR itself. 
The other modules in Expanded have their own UI but draw into SONAR's PC area rather than having their own window. 
The general design for PC modules allows for them also being "dual mode". i.e. they can ALSO act as regular windowed VST's. The Softube PC suite is an example of these.

Why don't our PC modules work like normal VST's? These modules were specifically designed to work exclusively inside our PC channel strip, be tightly integrated and have a small set of parameters to make them easily tweakable unlike many other VST's. Its also not that unusual for plugins to be locked to a host - reasons can include contractual/licensing issues as well as for competitive advantage.
We haven't built any dual mode PC modules yet but that doesn't mean there won't be any in the future...

 Hope this clarifies some questions..

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]

PC modules are indeed VST's at heart. They however have extra hooks (vendor specific API's in VSTspeak) that allow the enhanced functionality to allow them to reside in the PC bin and tightly integrate with SONAR. The original set of PC components prior to expanded were UI less VST's - i.e, the UI is drawn by SONAR itself. 
The other modules in Expanded have their own UI but draw into SONAR's PC area rather than having their own window. 
The general design for PC modules allows for them also being "dual mode". i.e. they can ALSO act as regular windowed VST's. The Softube PC suite is an example of these.

Why don't our PC modules work like normal VST's? These modules were specifically designed to work exclusively inside our PC channel strip, be tightly integrated and have a small set of parameters to make them easily tweakable unlike many other VST's. Its also not that unusual for plugins to be locked to a host - reasons can include contractual/licensing issues as well as for competitive advantage.
We haven't built any dual mode PC modules yet but that doesn't mean there won't be any in the future...

Hope this clarifies some questions..

Shure it does... Specially the "bold-italic-underlined" parts. 

Anyway, as I said... I am lovin this PC thing... The only thing got me surprised is how exclusive things are becoming instead of inclusive... But I totally understand it from a business perspective...

Well, the first post in this thread was mentioning Propellerhead new technologie Rack Extensions, wich will let other companies to do Reason components wich will work ONLY inside of reason. Just like CW did with SofTube... Thats why the word "trend" is in topic subject...

Understand this is not a wheel invention, it is an old practice, etc... Just found it more agressive than never.

"Please don't leave me" strategy.

Peace.

FastBikerBoy


Of course it's better here, I'm here..... although I'm also over at Steinberg but not for a long time and certainly not often..... but where else would you expect to find an untalented, fanboi troll who makes boring videos?

STOP saing this PLEASE! I don't like to hear this stupid comments again about yourself...sounds disturbing.
I know you joking but its not funny. First of all you are talent and same goes for you videos too my friend!
 
Have a great weekend!

Sorry Freddie, just my sense of humour....... of course I realise that I am an extremely talented, handsome, hung like a horse, bike riding God, babe magnet that Steven Spielberg has every right to be jealous of.......

EDIT: I should also point out that I don't actually use Cakewalk products my main DAW is cubase and I just hang around here to annoy people.

FastBikerBoy


Sorry Freddie, just my sense of humour....... of course I realise that I am an extremely talented, handsome, hung like a horse, bike riding God, babe magnet that Steven Spielberg has every right to be jealous of.......

Couldn't agree more. You are lucky you are not a girl, you could consider yourself married and taken by me!