The Problem with Live

I happen to love Ableton Live - with or without gagdets, but I don't think v9 will wipe out Pro Tools.   Pro Tools is still basically the industry standard.

Have you ever tried to shake an industry loose of something?   That's not an easy trick

But it is interesting to see the Ableton bandwagon out there be so robust, the Presonus line is becoming very credible, etc.   I just don't think CW gives too much of a hoot about all that though.

I think they have a market target they stick to - and that's good enough for them.  Any peripheral sales they won't throw away, but I think they just have a very focused view of their particular market segment that works for them and doesn't put too much pressure to come up with all these other things (like being a MAC program, or iPAD, Android apps, etc).

Less is sometimes more, as they say.

Just my opinion, of course.

Having forced myself to sit through the recording on the Channel5 website:

http://fwd.channel5.com/gadget-show/blog/series-16-episode-1-the-gadget-show-theme-tune-remixed

if anyone has cause to worry, I'd say it's Ableton, if that's the best their product can do. In fact, Live can do far better....
 
Bear in mind the idea was for two presenters to each create and mix a theme using what was described as "consumer tech". The reason one presenter gives for choosing Live is that he's done a bit of DJing and it felt more like what he was used to.

The other software that gets approval is Garagebend running on a tablet.

The version of Sonar involved is X1 Essential by the way, not producer.  Live looks like the full version, not LE. Neither Reason nor Sonar were "rubbished" - they were simply tossed aside a very few seconds after mentioning them when the hyper-excited presenter said he chose Live because it appealed to him as a budding DJ. More "hands on" at first glance apparently. :-/

The whole thing boils down to "buy a few cool gadgets and you can string the loops that come with the software together - how cool is that?"

As a "review", it's no use to anyone, is intended merely for entertainment, and should not be taken seriously or worried about too much.

As for Ableton becoming the industry leading DAW and replacement for the DAWs like PT, Sonar, Cubase etc., it had better learn to handle all 128 MIDI CCs first. Then add in sensible NRPN handling, drum maps, layers and a few other things as well. :-)

yeah... but what if Roland truly steped up to the plate(like it should) they have the bankroll, technology and reputation to change the game in a major way...Roland could checkmate the DAW market. if Yamaha steps it up GAME OVER

Pro Tools is the norm for the recording studio industry, but I wonder what the adoption of Pro Tools is for new users. Ableton is everywhere here, we run a monthly new producer night here in Perth and it's close to 100% Ableton Live (some people use hardware), even DJ's are heading over to Live for their performance.

Recording and production in general is becomming more accessable and portable, people no longer need to go and use big studios to record their albums. No doubt a bunch of users here have produced amazing records with Sonar, it's a killer peice of software.

Sonar and Cakewalk seem to be going in the right direction as both a fantastic tool for people who use the traditional methods of music productiona and for those more interested in pattern based sequencing and performance. Live is the only other DAW with a Scene/Matrix view now we just need to see out Matrix evolve.
 
The bottom line is that there is a market out there for people who need both the spotenaity of the scene/matrix view and those who need that really solid linear way of sequencing. If we get some good Matrix based updated in X2 (or whatever it is called) Cakewalk should work with Novation on making the launchpad compatible with Sonar it will then be opened up to a whole new audience.

Well - that's the reason I am still using Project5, altough this software is abandoned now. I think Project 5 is showing his age by now, but I still prefer it above Ableton Live.

Yes - parts of project 5 seem to be incorporated in Sonar now (think about the matrix view), but unfortunately there is still a lot of work to do before these parts in Sonar becomes as easy to use as in Project 5 itself (editing MIDI is in my opinion better in Project 5 - and Sonar also don't let you edit data directly in matrix cells.. as far as I know). Until then I keep my copy of Project 5 side by side with Sonar.

MIDI editing could use some improvement in Sonar too. As an example - double clicking a clip does takes you to the PRV, but NOT to the clip, but instead of that to the place where the now time is positioned. If the now-time is positioned at the start of the project, and the clip is half-way the project, double-clicking the clip "pulls" you to the start of the project in PRV view. Also the clip "borders" are not shown (like it is done in Cubase), making editing sometimes cumbersome (could be I am too stupid to do it right tough).

Still - if the matrix view would be improved (without sacrificing the other parts of Sonar) together with MIDI editing, Sonar could take a part of that market too. Make no mistake - I still prefer the X1/Project5 combination above what is available at the market at this moment. I do not think that is going to change very soon..

Just had a play with Live and it sure is different but not enticing enough to jump across to after getting a grip on X1 Producer. Nice to play with though! You will never be able to compare Sonar to PT either at a pro level IMO while PT has such a vast array of professional hardware available to it. Two VERY different worlds... the 700C is great but does confine Sonar to the smaller pro levels or serious hobbyists (the target market/majority)... if I was building a serious commercial (digital) facility with a requirement for a large desk (bling!) then PT immediately becomes a serious integrated option. Cheers.

I totally agree with Mully Identity, or being able to identify your market is integral as you could be firing at a market that you are not ready for. Ableton Live has been strategic in their marketing and it seems to be working.

Pro Tools has always had a market and that seems to be working too!

Saying that I am wondering what and who CakeWalk are marketing to?

I'm trying not to be naive or damning either because I believe all three have their priorities straight.

I agree that you are never going to knock Pro Tools of its perch! It's been around for too long.

Studio One have done the right thing Fresh Code...there is a market for them a BIG market. Keeping things humming in a world where people are getting less patient and waiting in never neverland is becoming more of a nightmare than a dream.

Roland I think need to take the Bull by the Horns as there rep when it comes to hardware is very very good. Just go into any music store and call out the names and most likely they will give you there opinions and what they think of Sonar (the most complaints you get about it is its workflow (you guys call it gapless audio) but that aside if it works there is nothing else you can say aslong as it all works and fits in to your work ethic.

Thats the main thing.

I haven't played with Live much, but one very cool thing about the latest version is that it integrates with Max from Cycling '74, which allows you to create and program your own Live devices... http://cycling74.com/

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - http://garrigus.com
* Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series: http://garrigus.com/?PowerBooks
* Author of the Cakewalk Sonar ProAudioTutor video tutorial series: http://garrigus.com/?ProAudioTutor
* Publisher of the DigiFreq free music technology newsletter: http://digifreq.com/?DigiFreq
* Publisher of the NewTechReview free consumer technology newsletter: http://newtechreview.com/?NewTechReview

What is this Max 6 sounds interesting?

I have been using Live since 2004. As others have pointed out here correctly, Live can be more than just a DAW it is an instrument also. The reason there are so many third party hardware controllers for it is because of it's unparalleled flexibility.
It has now leapfrogged into the realm of software controllers via the iPad. I use TouchAble on my iPad 2. And am keen on getting Konkreet Performer.
Do yourself a favor and attend one of the remaining Ableton SAE Fall Tour dates.
Pro Tools is dominant because it has a large installed base in pro studios. But that will not be the case in the future.