***The Sonar x64/Windows 7 x64 Install, Tweaks & Compatibility Thread***

Thanks a lot. I will try it out!

Wilko

FYI – I retrieved this from Gigablast search engine.  It was cached to February 19, 2010.  I’ve added the changes currently on the Cakewalk forum that were updated February 22, 2010 (when the crash occurred to Jose7822 original post – i.e. part if item 4 onwards to item 10).
 
Jose 7822 posted the following:
Note: The following tweaks are used on my system and may not apply to yours do to software/hardware/workflow differences.  Most of these tweaks are harmless and can be reverted back to their original state at any time.  However, you assume all risks involved in performing them, as I will not be held responsible for any harm they may cause.  Hope this is not the case though, so good luck!
 
Before we begin though, I want to clarify that these tweaks are not limited to the 64 bit version of either Sonar nor Windows 7.  The purpose of this thread is mainly to aid those of you who want/plan to make the transition to a 64 bit system on Windows 7 in the near future, as well as to make this transition as painless as possible.  At the very least, it should serve to warn you about possible plugin incompatibility issues that you may encounter along the way.  Additionally, I wanted to conglomerate all of the tweaks that apply to the way we work in a DAW environment into one thread.  That way you get the whole story instead of just bits & pieces here and there.  Just skip to the end of this thread for a list of incompatible plugins in case the tweaks don't interest you.  Anyways, let's get started, shall we?
 
1- Windows 7 Upgrade Advisor:
Please, make sure you have the appropriate drivers for all you hardware before venturing into the 64 bit world.  Otherwise, your hardware will NOT work, and this includes everything from your audio interface all the way to your integrated network card.  This is why the best place to start is by installing the Windows 7 Upgrade Advisor found here:
 
http://www.microsoft.com/...t/upgrade-advisor.aspx
 
With this tool, you'll find out if your PC is ready for Windows 7 or not.  It does this by pointing out which drivers are compatible with Windows 7 and which ones need to be upgraded.  Sometimes it may even tell you that Windows 7 drivers are available at the hardware manufacture's website if they're not already installed in your system.  In the cases where it does not find a compatible driver, you may have to either find them yourself by visiting the appropriate website to get them, or use Vista drivers for your hardware.  Usually, the latter case should work without any issues.  But, in cases where the Vista driver doesn't install properly, you'll need to install them in Vista compatibility mode by right-clicking on the driver's installer file and selecting "Properties".  In the "Compatibility" tab, put a check mark on "Run this program in compatibility mode for:" and choose "Windows Vista". Click "OK" and run the installer.  Also, it is a good idea to save all of your system drivers in either a thumb drive or an external HDD (Hard Disk Drive) before installing the OS.  That way you'll have everything needed in case you are later not able to log online to find them.
 
2- Backup All Your Data:
This should be a given by now, but always back-up all of your data before installing an OS.  This includes Project Files, Audio files, Plugins presets, Color presets, MIDI Tool presets, Key Bindings, Track Templates, Project Templates and anything that applies.  In these cases is good to have an imaging tool like Acronis True Image so you can always go back to a previous state or even a previous OS in a flash.  By the way, you should ALWAYS do a fresh Operating Systems install, no upgrades.  This prevents having to reinstall the OS in case of file or system corruption.  A good reason why an imaging software is your friend :-)
 
3- System Reserved Partition:
Windows 7 creates a 100MB System Reserved partition on the main drive when it installs.  It does this whenever you're installing the OS into an unallocated disk space, or when you create a new partition out of an empty HDD.  You probably don't have this System Reserved partition if you already had partitions in your main drive, or if you formated the HDD before installing Windows 7.  Just go to Disk Management (Right-click "My Computer" and select "Manage") to verify if you have it.  Don't get me wrong though, this is actually a nice feature since it lets you troubleshoot the OS using a recovery environment called (WinRE) in case there is no OS disk available.  But some people may not want/need it.  If you already have Windows 7 installed in your system and didn't notice anything wrong, then don't worry about this.  I'm a very, VERY picky guy, which is why I insisted on getting rid of this System Reserved partition.  However, if you are about to install Windows 7 and don't want this partition to show up on your system drive then here's what to do:
 
http://www.mydigitallife....-installing-windows-7/
 
There are a few methods outlined in that link that can get rid of it after installation, but the easiest and most reliable way is the 3rd method before installing Windows 7.  Selecting "Cancel" when asked if you want to create a System Reserved partition does NOT avoid it.  Windows 7 still creates the System Reserved partition anyways.  The only way to avoid it is as outlines in the above link.  My advice is to do it before installing Windows 7.  I personally wouldn't try it after the fact.
 
Warning:  It has been reported that the System Partition will install on another of your drives if the main HDD is already partitioned.  You can avoid this by disabling all other drives from the BIOS before installing Windows 7.  Also, if you have a HDD docking station, the "System Reserved" partition will steal the drive letter normally associated with the docking station and move the partition with the content on it out to the next drive letter!  So be aware of that.
[Thanks to Fret Wiz for providing this info!]
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4- Driver Installation:
 
Now that Windows 7 has been installed in your system, we proceed to install all the drivers.  Remember to always start with the chipset drivers first before installing the rest.  After the chipset is installed, I personally follow with the video drivers, and go from there in no particular order.  However, and this is very important for those of you using FireWire interfaces. If you're experiencing any performance issues with your FireWire interface after installing Windows 7, then the following tweak may help you.  Before installing your interface's driver though, you'll need to enable the Windows Legacy FW driver first.  To do this, follow these steps (paraphrased from the RME website):
 
    * In Device Manager, double-click the 'IEEE 1394 Bus host controllers'
    * Right-click your FW 1394 controller and select 'Update Driver Software...'
    * Choose "Browse my Computer for driver software"
    * Choose "Let me pick from a list of device drivers on my computer".  A list pops up that shows three entries:
 
............OHCI-compliant 1394 Host controller
............OHCI-compliant 1394 Host controller (legacy)
............OHCI-compliant Texas Instruments 1394-Host controller
 
    * From these three select: 'OHCI-compliant 1394 Host controller (legacy)'
    * Proceed to install the latest FW drivers for your audio interface 
 
In some cases, there are performance issues when using the new Windows 7 native FW driver, which is why it is recommened to use the old (legacy) one.  This issue is NOT present in any flavor of Windows Vista.
 
Note to FireFace 400/800 users:  This tweak is no longer necessary with the latest FireFace drivers v.2.998.  You'll also need the latest firmware for your device.  For more information, please go to the RME website and read post #26 of this thread: http://www.rme-audio.de/f...lt;/a></font>
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5- Black Viper's Windows 7 Super Tweaks:
 
This is one of the best website for Windows tweaks on the net.  However, being that it is a general tweak site, there are some tweaks that don't apply to our way of working.  For example, I find that most of the Service Configuration tweaks don't apply to modern DAWs.  If you want to go for it, that's cool.  There is a comprehensive list of all the Windows Services that can be shut down, including profiles for "Safe", Tweaked and Bare-bones service tweaks here: 
  
[link=http://www.blackviper.com/Windows_7/servicecfg.htm%3C/a%3E]http://www.blackviper.com...servicecfg.htm%3C/a%3E
 
But, again, I really didn't notice any difference in performance when I tried them.  On the contrary, I thought it made the system unstable (at least in my experience).  Plus, sometimes there's an application that you may use which may need a specific service (or services) to be ON.  Then you have to go back to enable it (them) again.
 
However, the ones that I do recommend are the following tweaks, with the exceptions of turning off the Aero Themes.  Number Five is basically covered above and Number Eight is a "do at your own risk" type of deal.  Here are the tweaks: 
  
http://www.blackviper.com.indows_7/supertweaks.htm
 
UAC or User Account Control is an optional tweak.  Actually, all of these tweaks are optional.  But some people find UAC useful.  I personally don't.  I don't put my DAW at risk and only go online to places I know such as the Cakewalk forum or to update my drivers and register software.  I've never had any problems having this feature OFF the entire year I was using Vista, so I just turn it OFF.  Just read what Viper says about what you're actually doing to your system and then make a decision based on that.  You may actually want to keep some of these features.
 
6- Other tweaks:
Besides the tweaks outlined in the Viper site, I also perform some extra ones and I'll go through them one by one:
- Disk Write-Caching:  You can improve disk write speeds by enabling the write-caching policy in Windows.  This is actually already enabled by default, but I suggest disabling it unless you have proper battery back-up, a.k.a. UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply).  The reason is you may lose data or get data corruption if you lose power while information is being written to the disk (i.e. during tracking/recording).  
 
To enable/disable write-caching, right-click "My Computer" and select "Manage". Click on "Device Manager" on the left.  Now double-click where it says "Disk drives".  Right-click the first drive and choose "Properties".  You'll see the option to enable/disable write caching under the "Policies" tab.  Notice there's another option below to "Turn off Windows write-cache buffer flushing on the device".  This will further improve disk write speeds at the cost of further data loss.  This is why it is very important to use a UPS if you want to use this feature.  A UPS is a required device if you use computers for serious work.  Repeat the above steps for all other disk drives in the system.
.
- Disk Allocation Unit Size:  I set this to 64K for my Audio/Video/Sample drives while the system drive is left at the default setting of 4K.  Note that you only do this before putting any data in the HDD since this usually requires reformatting the disk, thus you will lose all your data.  This tweak is used to minimize disk head movements on your HDD, which improves performance.  This tweak obviously does not apply to Solid State drives.
. 
- Disk Indexing:  This feature slows down disk performance since it runs continuously in the background, degrading disk speeds.  The Viper site showed you how to remove it from the Add/Remove Windows Component Panel applet, but you'll still need to disable it directly from the HDD by clicking on "My Computer" and going to Disk Properties.  Uncheck "Allow files on this device to have contents indexed in addition to file properties".  Click "OK" and then click on "Ignore All".  Repeat for all HDD in the system.
. 
- Power Schemes:  Windows 7 is set to default to a Balanced power setting that automatically manages power consumption on your PC.  However, this detriments performance by shutting down system components when idle in order to save power.  To disable this, you'll need to go to the Control Panel and click on "System and Security".  Then go to "Power Options" and select "High Performance" (you may need to unhide additional plans to see it).
 
But, we're not done yet.  Now you need to click on "Change plan settings", make sure everything is set to "Never", and then click on "Change advanced power settings".  In here you'll see all the options included in this plan.  However, notice that under "Hard disk" it is still programmed to shut down after some time.  You'll want to set this to "0", which turns to "Never" when you click on an empty space.  Make sure everything else is set the way you want it to be.  I believe the "Display" is the other thing that's set to turn off after a while.  When you're done, click the "Save Changes" button.
 
- Core Parking:  Is a new features in Windows 7 that may be very handy for laptop computers, but not very convenient for systems where high performance is needed at all times.  You can google it if you want to learn more about it.  But, to disable it, you'll need to do the following (skip this if you're not comfortable editing the Registry):
 
Go to Regedit and find the following key (use the "Find..." command under "Edit" to make this easier):
 
0cc5b647-c1df-4637-891a-dec35c318583
 
Within this key, change the values called "Value Min" and "ValueMax" to 0.  You'll have to find the key a few times (press F3) and adjust the values each time.  The number of instances depends on the number of power profiles in your system.  When you're done, do a cold shutdown/power on.
  
[Thanks to TomG and sky60234 for providing this awesome tweak] 
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- Windows Fault Tolerant Heap:
 
This is another new feature in Windows 7.  More information can be found in Post #37 of this thread: http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.ashx?m=1878539
  
These are the steps to turn it OFF:
 
* Set the registry key value HKLM\Software\Microsoft\FTH\Enabled to 0
 
* After changing this value, restart the system.
 
[Big thanks to jamescarter for this tip!]
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- Custome Page File Size:  I don't like Windows managing this dynamically by allocating HDD space for the Page File as it pleases, so I just set this to a custome size.  You do this by right-clicking on "My Computer" and choosing "Properties".  Click the "Advanced system settings" option on the left.  In the "Advanced" tab, click the "Settings" button under "Performance".  Now go to the "Advanced" tab and click "Change..." under "Virtual memory".  Uncheck "Automatically manage paging file size for all drives".  Select the "No paging file" on all drives except the main drive where the OS is installed.  You want to set the OS drive to a "Custome size" and enter the value shown below under "Recommended".  Click the "Set" button and then click "OK".  You'll be required to restart the computer for the changes to take effect.  If you're not asked to restart the computer, then the changes were not applied, so go back to make sure.
. 
- Remote Assistance:  I never ever use this, so I disable it completely (including the services which I'll get to later).  Again, go to "My Computer", "Properties" and click the "Advanced system settings" option on the left.  This time, click on the "Remote" tab and uncheck "Allow Remote Assistance connections to this computer".  Also make sure that "Don't allow connections to this computer" is selected, and then click "OK". 
. 
- No Sounds:  This one is probably one of the most important tweaks for an audio recording workstation.  What makes it so important is that Windows' sounds may interfere with the sample rate of your audio interface by changing at will whenever it plays a windows sound.  This is because Windows' sounds playback at a lower sample rate (around 11KHz), so it is important to change this setting.  To do this, go to the Control Panel and click on "Hardware and Sound".  Go to "Sound" and then the "Sound" tab.  Here, change the "Sound Scheme:" to "No Sounds" and click "OK".  You'll get a warning about saving the previous sound scheme, just continue without saving it.  Now go to the "Communications" tab and select the "Do nothing" radio button.  While in here, might as well make sure that you have the correct playback device by going into the "Playback" tab, selecting the device you Windows to use with Windows Media Player (or other player) and then selecting the "Set Default" button below. Now click "OK".
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- Video Card: Although this is NVIDIA based, it goes without saying that you can do the same for ATI based cards also:
 
1. Right-Click on the desktop > NVIDIA Control Panel > Manage 3D settings > program settings
2. Add sonar if it's not already in the list.
3. basically set everything to off and these are the important ones...
 
Threaded optimization = on
texture filtering quality = high performance
vertical sync = force off
 
[Tweak provided by Buddy110, thanks!]
.  
7- Turning OFF Windows Services:
 
I only shut down the services I know I will never use, so make sure you know what you're turning OFF before attempting this.  Please keep in mind that the following method completely shuts down a service.  Though it can be turned back on, doing this may prevent you from performing some tasks.  Usually Windows lets you know which service(s) you need to turn back on, but sometimes it doesn't (i.e. if it's a 3rd party application that needs such service).  You may also skip this step if you don't feel comfortable doing this.
 
Go to "Run..." and type "msconfig". There are some services you may wish to disable in the "Startup" tab, but I usually need all of them so I leave it alone.  Now go to the "Services" tab and uncheck the following (notice some of these may not apply to the version of Windows 7 you have):
[font=""ms mincho""]　
* Bluetooth Support Service
* Windows Media Center Receiver Service
* Windows Media Center Scheduler Service
* Windows CardSpace
* Peer Networking Identity Manager
* Peer Networking Grouping
* Remote access Auto Connection Manager
* Remote Access Connection Manager
* Remote Registry
* Smart Card  
* Smart Card Removal Policy
* Remote Desktop Configuration
* Print Spooler
* Tablet PC Input Service
* Telephony
* Remote Desktop Services
* Remote Desktop Services UserMode Port Redirector
* Windows Defender
* Windows Remote Management (WS-Management)
* Windows Media Player Network Sharing Service
* Parental Controls
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8- HDD Assingments:
 
Preferably, you'll want to have separate HDD for different types of files (i.e. Audio, Video, etc).  By doing this, you minimize disk head movements which prolongs HDD life and overall disk performance.  For example, writing recorded audio to disk while the OS searches for files is one scenario that decreases disk performance.  For this reason, I have set up my HDD the following way:
 
1- OS/Program Files
 
2- Sonar Projects (including respective Audio folder).
 
3- Sample Data Drive
 
4- Video Drive
 
You may have a different setup, but the idea still applies.  Adding a RAID 0 array is a good idea if you were planning on playing back +100 tracks, or when working with HD video editing in the same system.  Sometimes you can get away with storing your sample data in the OS/Program Files drive.  But I wouldn't recommend doing this if you use big sample libraries such as PLAY, Kontakt/Kompakt based libraries or VSL where samples are being streamed through the hard drive.  In this case, a dedicated HDD for samples is a must.  Some people go as far as using multiple HDD, each for a section of the orchestra, to store their samples.  Again, it just depends on your needs and your setup.
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9- Sonar Tweaks:
 
* Improved Multi-Core load balancing  [From Noel's SONAR 8.3 Log]
 
Since all systems are not made equal we decided to make this new scheduling mode configurable.
From the help file, the new aud.ini option to control this is:
 
ThreadSchedulingModel=<0 - 2> 
Type Integer 
Default 1
 
This variable goes in the [Wave] section and controls the interaction of the main audio thread and worker threads on multiprocessor systems when the Use Multiprocessing Engine option is enabled. Depending on the system, a particular model may result in less glitching and better overall performance. The values are as follows:
 
............0 = Same as previous versions of SONAR.
............1 = (default) Better thread balance. Model is more efficient and can provide cycles for other tasks.
............2 = Additional worker thread is created. This may result in improvement with Quad processor systems or higher. Not recommended for Dual processor systems. 
 
To change this go to Options::Audio::Advanced Tab in Sonar and click on the "Edit Config File" button.  This opens up the AUD.INI file in NotePad where you'll find the above entry (ThreadSchedulingModel) under the [WAVE] section.  Change it to a value of 2 (for Quad Core CPUs and higher only) and then Save the file.  Now close it and click on the "Reload Config Settings" button, click "OK" and restart Sonar.  Now enjoy even core loadings :-)
 
NOTE:  Sometimes you may not find this variable even though you're using Sonar v.8.3 or higher.  In this case, you'll need to manually delete the AUD.INI file so that Sonar can recreate it and include all the new entries.  Just navigate to the Sonar folder (usually found under Program Files/Cakewalk/[inser your version of Sonar here] and you'll see a shortcut to the "Cakewalk User Data" folder.  Double-click it and then go to the Sonar folder.  There you will see the file named AUD, which you can delete.  Obviously, you want to do this will Sonar is closed.  The next time you open Sonar, all the new variables will now show up.
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. 10- Incompatible Plugins in Sonar x64/Windows 7 x64:
 
This portion of the thread is dedicated to listing the plugins that are known to be incompatible in Sonar 8.5 under Windows 7 x64.  This may include work-arounds that shall be pointed out when applicable.  As a reminder, note that 32 bit DX and DXi plugins/synths are not supported in the 64 bit version of Sonar.  Moreover, Rewire devices such as Reason and Project 5 are not capable of Rewiring to Sonar, or any other 64 bit software for that matter.  MPEX timestretching and the native REX file support introduced in Sonar 8.5 are also not supported in the 64 bit version.  Lastly, for those working with video, QuickTime formats such as .mov and H.264 cannot be imported into Sonar 64 bit.  
 
Here are the one's we know about so far:
 
* Timeworks and old Cakewalk FX plugins with the exception of FX2 Tape Simulator and Amp Simulator plugs
* Cakewalk Studioverb 2.0
* Cakewalk Dreamstation
* Cakewalk Rapture Full/LE 64 bit (many crashes)
* FabFilter plugins/all (requires a special JBridge build)
* Arturia MiniMoog
* Tootrack Superior Drummer 2.2 (64 bit beta version available now)
* Toontrack EZDrummer (64 bit beta version available now)
* Garritan Jazz and Big Band
* Garritan Personal Orchestra
* Kontakt Player 2 (version 3 works)
* Korg Legacy Cell (various issues) 
* Submersible Music KitCore (works w/JBridge)
   
    
 [I will keep updating the list as we go]
 

Oh thats great! I'm sure Jose will be chuffed! xD

Jose ... it's amazing the collective support you inspired by your good intentions. Give and others give back by having yours.

Cool. Very cool.

Kev-

It was mentioned here earlier, and although Wave's plugs are not on the list of plug ins that don't work in x64 ... I've sadly been unable to get mine to work. I've done everything suggested in the forum, including wrapping them in the dxshell in their own folder etc ...

When the CW plug in manager is run, errors occur on the Waves VST waveshell ... that report the plug ins cannot be found ... and check later when I actually do have them installed (they are installed).

Is there a simpler method of getting them to work in x64?

In x86 it's no problem ... they work fine in DX mode.

Still ... x64 is my goal, and I'd love to gain function of them again.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

Kev-

Hey guys!

I want to say a big THANK YOU! to rrr.lewis for being able to bring back the OP of this thread.  That is nothing short of miraculous, so I'm forever in debt with him.  Thanks a lot my friend!  You really deserve a medal.  However, the forum software is still being gay and not letting me edit the OP as much as I'd like to.  I believe there's an auto-update feature that's screwing with the formatting and making things disappear or not show correctly.  I really don't know what's going on, but I did try (like 4 times) to make it look like before and more readable to no avail.  I just totally gave up on it, so excuse the crappy job.

Anyways, the important thing is that now all of the info is back and people can hopefully benefit from it.  Thanks again to everyone who have so far shared their knowledge of tweaks in this thread.  The list wouldn't be as complete without you, that's for sure.  Richard, you are my hero :-)

Take care everyone!

K dub


Jose ... it's amazing the collective support you inspired by your good intentions. Give and others give back by having yours.

Cool. Very cool.

Kev-

 
Hey Kev!
 
Thanks for the kind words!  I'm just giving a little back to the forum that has taught me so much throughout the years.  I truly believe this to be the best forum on the net (minus the forum software of course).  As far as your problem with Waves plugins, have you tried turning X-Ray OFF, or excluding them from X-Ray?  Not sure if that would work but it may be worth a try.  Otherwise, it could be that Waves doesn't actually work in Sonar 64 bit as I was told before.  If that's the case, then I will immediately include Waves in the incompatible plug list.  Hope that's not the case though.
 
HTH
 
 

No I haven't, J. I'll give it a go. I thought that wrapping them was the solution. If it's that easy, I owe you a bottle.

Thanks!

K-

One quick thing ...

When I tried to install Sonar 8.5 (and the other upgrades/patches) I was getting the "blue screen of death" right at the end of the install when it came to registering the files. After a lot of work and research I found that it was PC Tools Spyware Doctor with Antivirus that was causing the problem. You have to completely uninstall the program to get Sonar (and a lot of other software) to install properly - disabling it does NOT work. Seems that a part of the PC Tools app called Threatfire only supports 32 bit. Time for a new antivirus methinks.

mickbrit55


One quick thing ...

When I tried to install Sonar 8.5 (and the other upgrades/patches) I was getting the "blue screen of death" right at the end of the install when it came to registering the files. After a lot of work and research I found that it was PC Tools Spyware Doctor with Antivirus that was causing the problem. You have to completely uninstall the program to get Sonar (and a lot of other software) to install properly - disabling it does NOT work. Seems that a part of the PC Tools app called Threatfire only supports 32 bit. Time for a new antivirus methinks.

 
I personally don't use any anti-virus software on my DAW because of these problems you mentioned and also because I find them more intrusive than helpful (at least in my case).  Having said that, not everyone uses their DAWs the same way I do so I understand why some people do use anti-virus software.  A lot of the forum members here use AVG Antivirus and it supports the 64 bit versions of XP, Vista and 7.  Give it a try and see how it works for you.
 
HTH
 
 

Yeah, I used to use AVG but it didn't detect a keylogger that infected my system and someone hijacked my World of Warcraft account. Since I installed PC Tools it's been fine. What I do now is have Win XP 32 bit on one drive to run games and apps, which is connected to the internet. On another drive I have Win 7 64-bit solely for music and not connected to the net.

 
I'm currently setting up Sonar 8.53 on a i7 920 with Windows 7 64 bit (12 GB DDR3)
 Frontier Design Dakota I/O PCI ADAT Card.  
 
I'm getting some strange lockups when loading some 32 bit vsti using bitbribge or jbridge.
There appears to be a hidden popup message behind the initial vsti dialogbox that locks up
 the dialogbox (you can not move the dialogbox to answer the question) and it locks up Sonar.
 When I use task manager to close out Sonar I get a BSOD.
BTW, you can noty access the hidden messagebox...Tried everything -- alt/tab  etc...
 
Oddly, some of these 32bit vsti when they do load a messagebox comes up and mentions it's low on memory?
Very odd since I have 12GB of memory!
 
WTF is going on here?
 
 

WTFOVER,
 
I've had some luck using a program called unhider to access hidden popups in Sonar 8.3.1 (64 bit version). The ones I've seen tended to be authorization/registration type popups. The program works okay, but it hangs or freezes a lot for me when I pick certain windows in the list (you kind of have to guess which window in the list corresponds to your hidden popup). When this happens, I just force it closed by ending the process and restart it. Also, if the popup IS an authorization or registration type of popup, then you could also try authorizing the plugin with the 32 bit version of Sonar which can be installed alongside the 64 bit version. This only seems to be a problem when BitBridge is involved.
 
Here is a link to the program:
 
http://download.cnet.com/Unhider/3000-2094_4-10817765.html
 
I have not tried this program since I moved to Windows 7, but it worked with Vista Home Premium x64.
 
Best Regards,
Don

Alternatively, sometimes you can also go down to the Task Bar and right-click the hidden window's tab.  Then select "Move" and your mouse should get automatically redirected to the title bar of the hidden window so that you can move it out of the way.  This doesn't always work though, but the problem is with Bitbridge enabled plugins as Don mentioned.

HTH

Don and Jose, thanks for the reponses.

I'll have to check out the unhider program.
I did try the "move" command, but the window covering it was locked up frozen along with Sonar showing a "not responding" on the top titlebar.

Since it was a clean install to Sonar x64 on a new PC, it probably is the 32 bit vsti authorization that's causing this sh*t.

When this happens, all I can do is close Sonar in task manager and then I get a BSOD!
This is really driving me nuts.

I've already had to postpone a couple tracking sessions!

Maybe, loading the 32 bit Sonar in Windows 7 x64 along with Sonar x64 i'm currently seeing this issue may be a good idea.

WTF OVER

K dub


It was mentioned here earlier, and although Wave's plugs are not on the list of plug ins that don't work in x64 ... I've sadly been unable to get mine to work. I've done everything suggested in the forum, including wrapping them in the dxshell in their own folder etc ...

When the CW plug in manager is run, errors occur on the Waves VST waveshell ... that report the plug ins cannot be found ... and check later when I actually do have them installed (they are installed).

Is there a simpler method of getting them to work in x64?

In x86 it's no problem ... they work fine in DX mode.

Still ... x64 is my goal, and I'd love to gain function of them again.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

Kev-

 
Hey K dub,
 
Just making the transition to win 7 64 bit ( going pretty well so far) so I have been researching this great thread (great  stuff and a real service to the community Jose - thank you!)
 
Anyway K-dub - if you are still having problems getting waves to work under 64 bit there is a workaround (bit of a pain) that I am using and it does work - Let me know and I  maybe can help if needed..
 
thanks again Jose7822.... 

Awesome thread!  Lots of useful information here. 

One question:  I run my SONAR PC with a D-Link Wireless card, to communicate upstairs to the wireless network, and share files across all PC's in the house. 

I read somewhere in this thread that a wireless network / card can cause problems with a DAW? 

Can someone elaborate?  Severity?  Specific conflicts?

Before I jump on Newegg and order a 50 foot cat5e cable haha.

A wireless card certainly messed me up, but that was many years ago.  Haven't wanted to try it again.

You can see the effect by running the DPC latency Checker.  If anything causes a spike, you're in for trouble.

Ahhh perhaps I will try this utility.

If "anything" causes a spike, will this "anything" be defined?

Not exactly, but the website with the DPC Latency Checker gives you instructions and ideas to check.  Basically, you turn off services until the problem stops.  And if you look at Task Manager and sort on the  CPU column, you can often see it.

Thanks rio, I will check it out!

Spikes seen in the DPC Latency checker means you can get audio, pops, clicks, and drop outs when you run your DAW software.

riojazz -

Under what conditions should I run the DPC checker?
No other programs open?
SONAR open?
 -sitting still?
 -recording?
 -playback?

Bumpity Bump bump

As always, thanks Jose!

Also, wanted to get subscribed to this link... nothing to see hear, move along.

Under what conditions should I run the DPC checker? No other programs open?

 
Yes, that is correct.
 
You want to run it to see if there are spikes into the yellow area. If you get spikes into yellow or higher, that means some driver is behaving badly. And then you would want to disable things from Device Manager to pin point what device driver is the culprit.
 
Any readings in the green is OK, but for stable performance at low latency settings readings below 100usec in the DPC Latency Checker is desireable.
 
When you see stable readings within the green area, you can run SONAR and the DPC Latency Checker and still see the reading in the green area when SONAR is playing back a heavy project. :)

riojazz + thomasabarnes -

Awesome!  This worked out great.  I ran the program for about two minutes, at a steady 90usec.  Then a huge red spike lit up the graph.  I disabled the wireless card, and the Creative Audigy soundcard and it sat perfectly still for a good half hour.  Much thanks!  I am going to leave those devices disabled unless they are needed. 

Wireless network cards are the problem a lot with those who have them enabled, so they are disabled and it's helpful a lot of the times. You probably can enable the Creative sound card, or you can check for updated drivers for it if you haven't. You might want to use that sound card when you do some gaming.:)
 
For that Creative Audigy card, you might want to try the kX Project Audio Driver at DriverHeaven.

Glad you found the culprit.  Yes, that DPC utility is invaluable.

Hey Rootdogg,

Sorry I wasn't able to respond sooner.  Thankfully, there are many helpful people in this forum and they were able to help you solve the problem.  Thanks guys for chiming in.

Have a great weekend everyone!

Would someone help me out here real quick....  If plugins are NOT compatible with BitBridge, do they still show up in the list of VSTs?

harikaram


Would someone help me out here real quick....  If plugins are NOT compatible with BitBridge, do they still show up in the list of VSTs?

 
Yes, they'll still show up in the plugin's list.  You could try using JBridge in these cases were Bitbridge doesn't work.
 
The ones that won't show up in your plugin's list are the 32 bit DX and DXi plugins (i.e. the old FX plugin suite, Dreamstation and the new Studioverb 2 from Cakewalk).
 
 
HTH

Jose7822


Just wanted to bump this thread since I see a few people could benefit from the information provided (especially points 3, 4 and 9). 
 
If you have a FireWire interface, point (4) will be of GREAT benefit.

HTH

Does anyone know if this is relevant with the Presonus Firebox?

....and is it essential to do this procedure BEFORE you install the 64bit Firebox drivers?

I don't know about the Firebox, but you do need to perform these steps before installing its drivers.  If you find out that you do need to use the Windows legacy FW drivers and the Firebox drivers are already installed, then un-install them (reboot the computer afterwards), enable the legacy FW drivers in Windows (as shown in step 4 in the OP) and then re-install the Firebox drivers (re-boot again).

HTH

From what I gather the problem with the drivers is that when writing to disc/ recording takes the W7 firewire drivers are not doing the trick...you might get dropouts and failures...is that correct? So going to the Legacy drivers is the thing to do that fixes it...

thanks Jose

Montezuma,

I can't speak from experience, but this is what RME developer Matthias Carstens had to say about them:

"This (Fireface 2.98) driver is also directly compatible to Windows 7. BUT: it seems the new Microsoft FireWire driver included in 7 suffers from unexpected bad performance when used with audio. Performance is really bad, operation limited, behavior unexpected - in short: lots of problems at this time. We are in contact with MS about these issues to fix them on either our or their side."


This was later fixed with driver v.2.998 and firmware 2.77 and 1.70 on the Fireface interfaces.  Other FW interfaces may not need to use the legacy FW driver in Windows, but that's something each person needs to research themselves.  You got it right though.  If you're experiencing poor performance with your FireWire interface after switching to Windows 7, then using the legacy FW drivers may solve the problem.


Take care!

Hey Guys!!!!

First off thanks to Jose for starting such an awesome thread!:D

I was hopeing some one could help me out with my problem ?

I have been haveing latency problems Useing the dpc checker I had done a buch of tweeks beore I was linked to this thread to day the results were ....
In windows 165 max average about 90 and in sonar it was 617 max/150 average It was going up and down lots and I had ben told that wasnt right so anyway

I just finished doing all the tweeks at the begining of the forum and I now have a better reading it is in windows 138 max/average100 so looks not bad its not jumping up and down as bad
In sonar its 294max/122 average and again it looks almost like a gren line across the screen rather than jumping al over the place.

I have just noticed though that.....

Me being a dum ass just noticed when I was installing the drivers I added all the utillitys from the disk

Do you think It could be them causeing the problem ?
I also still have the 100MB System Reserved partition on the main drive could this be causeing the latency to be at this level aswell ?

Tomorrow I am going to do another clean Install of windows 7 home x64 and Just follow everything on the thread bit by bit and not have the System reserve or install any of the utillitys from the drivers disk

I just need to figure out what exactly I have to install from the Disk so I dont mess up again.

One last question I hope a few people could clear up for me ?
What should I be aiming for in the dpc checker I was told with my system specs I should be exspecting a max of around 20 average about 10 ?

If this is the case its still far to high ;(

Could any one confurm if this is true ?

Thanks again for a great thread and I hope some of you can jump in and answer my questions

Sorry about the long post though guys

Take care

Norrie

Hi Norrie,

I think you're already getting a good reading on the DPC Latency Tool.  As long as you don't have readings in the red, or jumping all over, you're good.  Don't dwell too much on it.  You can try experimenting with eliminating the System Reserved partition to see if it makes things better, since I honestly couldn't tell you.  I didn't like having it on my machine from the start, so I got rid of it immediately.  Ditto for the utilities.

You got a bad ass system there, btw.  Enjoy!

Thanks man! Finaly so encorageing words from some one :D

I have just started my fresh in stall then I will be be going through this thread from the start

It should be happy daus after that

I will post how I get on

Thanks again :D

Norrie

The latest Presonus Firebox drivers from their site seem ok on W7 64bit...if anyone's interested.

You can try experimenting with eliminating the System Reserved partition to see if it makes things better,

I take the approach - if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it (corollary: because you'll end up screwing it up worse than when you started).
IMHO, So many people make these unnecessary "tweaks" and later post to this forum that Sonar sucks because they have some arcane problem.
 
My strong advice to anyone is:
Buy the best high-quality engineered computer & audio interface you can afford, put full Sonar on it, avoid where possible adding other toys and "free" things (of course, free is only in name - you WILL pay for this with you time and unproductivity), and then "shut your mouth :-O, open your ears" as you produce incredible music!

Hey guys could You al take a look at this and tell me if this is about right for my system ?

I Did a fresh windows7x64 install again today!
Did all the tweeks at the begining of this thread.
Updated all drivers etc (made sure I didnt install all the crap that came with the mother board
Disabled everything I can

My DPC in windows is reading 119 Max and about 100 average.

Ive loaded Sonar and played the track that comes with it called ment to be.

My DCP With the track playing is reading Max 263 and average about 150

Is this about right or what should I be aiming for ?

Thanks again

Norrie

Sijel

You can try experimenting with eliminating the System Reserved partition to see if it makes things better,
I take the approach - if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it (corollary: because you'll end up screwing it up worse than when you started).
IMHO, So many people make these unnecessary "tweaks" and later post to this forum that Sonar sucks because they have some arcane problem.

 
I don't need the System Reserved partition and it certainly didn't harm my system.  It's been almost a year since I created this thread, and so far no problems at all.
 

My strong advice to anyone is:
Buy the best high-quality engineered computer & audio interface you can afford, put full Sonar on it, avoid where possible adding other toys and "free" things (of course, free is only in name - you WILL pay for this with you time and unproductivity), and then "shut your mouth :-O, open your ears" as you produce incredible music!

 
I agree that modern systems don't benefit as much from the tweaks we used to perform on Windows XP and earlier.  But the same warnings still apply (and I did start the thread with one).  If you don't feel competent performing some (or any) of the tweaks shown in here then don't do 'em, cause you're on your own if anything goes wrong.  It used to be marked in bright red font, but the forum software is not letting me add formating anymore.  I actually lost a big chunk of information (as you could see in earlier posts) trying to make the OP more readable.  Fortunately, I was able to get all of it back thanks to a few helpful people who were kind enough to retrieve or store the information elsewhere.  In any case, tweaking a system can still yield benefits, as Norrie has shown.  He's system's latency was peaking all over the place and it's now is stable after performing some tweaks ;-)
 
 
Take care!

Norrie,

That looks good.  Like I said, don't weat it too much unless the system is not able to perform well with a moderate project at ultra low latencies (64 or 32 samples @ 44.1KHz).  Your readings sound normal to me.

Take care!

Jose!

You are a star!

Thanks I am so glad some one could finaly tell me if what I had was ok or if I should keep trying to get it lower

To be honest ive done so much that I dont feel there is anything else I could do

Some one on another thread I cant remember where though did tell me I should be exspecting about !15/10 in windows and about 80/50 with sonar playing and there speks were a lot lower than mine so it had me very confused (I think they might have been trying to confuse me or there very lucky to have such low levels)

I chose all the parts for my computer specificaly wantin the best performance and I have enough room for another 4 X 4GB strips of ocz gold that will give me a total of 24 gig of ram haha

I know its a bit over kill but I use all the superior drummer programs and they are ram based

I just feel if the computer can take it then do it :D

Sorry I was way off track there!

Anyway as Sijel said......

My strong advice to anyone is:
Buy the best high-quality engineered computer & audio interface you can afford, put full Sonar on it, avoid where possible adding other toys and "free" things (of course, free is only in name - you WILL pay for this with you time and unproductivity), and then "shut your mouth :-O, open your ears" as you produce incredible music!


I can agree with him on this buy the best you can aford but in my case I did that and look what happend to me nothing but problems this is now my 3rd cleen reinstall of everything and I followed everything on this thread that Jose said!

Luck for me this time I am bing told my readings are good.

My point I was trying to make was just becasue you can aford somethin good isnt going to insure 100% performance.

If it wasnt for this thread I would still be pulling my hair out now I am siting here realxed at 3 oclock in the morning looking forward to sleep and a nice day of mixing on an awesome system tomorow with no problems.

The only advice I could offer anyone would be If they are haveing problems try all the steps Jose stated at the top of the thread....... Back your stuff up!

Whats the worst that could happen ? You could spend a day like I did carefully checking things and have a fantastic system

Dont be scared Nothing is ever so bad it cant be fixed just make sure you back up anything important.

Sorry guys I am rambleing now I will leave the guys who know what there talking about to talk now.

Once again thanks for the thread Jose its awesome and really has helped me out like you say if the readings I am geting are good!!!!!

Thank you

Norrie

Oh one quick question for everyone if you dont mind

As I was saying I use the superior drummer 2 with allthe addons IT works great in 64 bit!!!!

I was thinking of buying ez mik from the same company tomorow its only about £45 and looks like a good tool for some one like me who is learning all the time

Is there any one who uses it who can tell me if it has any problems In sonar or 64bit ?

Thanks again guys

No problem Norrie.

Let us know how the system is behaving when you do actually run it through its paces.  I'm sure you'll be happy :-)


Take care!


P.S.  I think one of the few people who can get readings that low is Jim Roseberry from Studio Cat (But he's a Pro DAW builder).  It's really hard otherwise, unless you're on XP.

Jose7822


No problem Norrie.

Let us know how the system is behaving when you do actually run it through its paces.  I'm sure you'll be happy :-)


Take care!


P.S.  I think one of the few people who can get readings that low is Jim Roseberry from Studio Cat (But he's a Pro DAW builder).  It's really hard otherwise, unless you're on XP.

Ahhhhhh

Wel that makes sence then the people never said what OS they were useing well mine pritty much looks like a straight green line across the screen so if nothing else it looks ok haha

I am mixing a track tomorow and have a track to do some guitar work on aswell so I will get back to you and let you know how I get on:)

BTw What Bufer setings would you recomend for my system I think its set default 256 play back and 256 record and I am not sure about the asio setings

As you can tell I am very new to recording and I started out with pro tools but I am geting there slowly thanks to people lke you willing to help me

Thanks again for everything

Norrie

Norrie

Some one on another thread I cant remember where though did tell me I should be exspecting about !15/10 in windows and about 80/50 with sonar playing and there speks were a lot lower than mine so it had me very confused (I think they might have been trying to confuse me or there very lucky to have such low levels)

Norrie,
That was me and I didn't say you should expect, I said I would expect and I quote:
Mine is an I7 860 and my spikes are at 84 with average around 10 in Win7-64 and spikes at 102 with average around 20 in WinXP-32

That is what I'm getting and I wasn't trying to confuse you so please don't accuse me of that, after all, I'm the one who turned you on to this thread and helped you with your midi extraction from your pt (keep us safe) project. I've also done additional things/tweaks like turn off network crawling in XP (since I have my network card enabled). I've learned a quite a few things about tuning a DAW in XP to squeeze performance out of it because I was using a Pentium D for quite awhile before building my I7 860. Win 7 is something I'm slowly getting into and I haven't done much to tune that because I'm getting great performance right from the start.

Double post, sorry!

Haha I do double posts all the time by accidents

Hey man sorry If you took it as If I was acusing you of sonfuseing me some times I dont get my words right I have just been geting realy confused by it al and had no Idea what to aim for

Norrie

Does Pentagon I not work in Sonar 8.5 PE 64-bit? Whenever I try to insert a track with it, I just get the message: "Failed to insert softsynth. The synth may not be properly installed." But I've tried reinstalling it several times, both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions, to no avail. What's the deal??

For any one Interested Toontracks EZ Mix works great in 64 bit I bought it today :D

dimelives1:

Make sure "user account control" is off and try installing and running Pentagon I again. Also, try to run it using SONAR 32 bit version.

Is the 64-bit version of Sonar just all full of trouble? Should I just reinstall everything in 32-bit and forget 64-bit? What are the cons? Loss of quality?

Half of DropZone's .prog files don't play (unless missing the wavs has something to do with that... customer service has yet to give a satisfactory answer to that conundrum), Pentagon won't insert the synth... Is 64-bit worth the hassel at all?

Thomas gave you a good advice.  Make sure you're running Sonar as the administrator.

I'm able to use both DropZone and Pentagon I (though the former has some GUI issues here).

There's no loss in quality from Sonar 64 to 32 bit, btw.

Jose or any one could you help answer this question.

Its about my DPC checker

I have noticed in windows its siting a max of 80! then in task manager under prosseses a crss.exe file comes up twice and causes the DPS to go up to about 120

The description of the CRSS.exe is Client services

Could any one tell me what this is ? If I need it and If I dont how to get rid of it please ?

Thanks to every one :)

Norrie

There are two versions of this process.  One is the legit process from M$ and the other is a virus.  Since you just installed Windows 7, I will assume yours is the former and not the latter (the virus).  Here's more information about it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Client/Server_Runtime_Subsystem

In short, you want to keep this process active or else you may experience system instability.


HTH

Jose7822


Thomas gave you a good advice.  Make sure you're running Sonar as the administrator.

I'm able to use both DropZone and Pentagon I (though the former has some GUI issues here).

There's no loss in quality from Sonar 64 to 32 bit, btw.

Running as admin did the trick. Hmmm... why?

Is there a way to disable the "Do you want to allow the following program to make changes to this computer?" pop-up so I don't have to confirm every single time I fire up Sonar?

dimelives1

Jose7822


Thomas gave you a good advice.  Make sure you're running Sonar as the administrator.

I'm able to use both DropZone and Pentagon I (though the former has some GUI issues here).

There's no loss in quality from Sonar 64 to 32 bit, btw.

Running as admin did the trick. Hmmm... why?

Is there a way to disable the "Do you want to allow the following program to make changes to this computer?" pop-up so I don't have to confirm every single time I fire up Sonar?

Hey there yes there is this will sort you out :)

1. Head to Start
2. Select Control Panel
3. Select System and Security
4. Select Change User Account Control settings under Action Center header
5. Select the Continue button (if UAC is active)
6. Select the slider on the left and drag it down to "Never notify"
7. Select the Ok button to close the panel   
8. Close the window            

This Is also a very very very good tweek for lowering your latency level in windows :)

Hope this helps

Happy recording :D

Norrie

Does anyone know of any tweaking that can be done that can make quiet a hard drive? It seems my hd is active more often than not. Not clicking whining loud action...just gentle reading type sounds...lots of posts on the net about it. Few solutions. I'd love to know what is going on there. I've disabled all the usual suspects...so anyone have this issue and resolve it?