my comment about the hate was a general one.  I've never had a problem w/ X1.  I definately didn't use it for any projects from at the begining.  One look said it was a different critter and would take time to learn - like any new software.  I also expected that it would have some teething problems.  If you think about it the GUI is entangled in everything, and X1 had a new GUI.  I figured that Cake would sort a lot of them out, not because I get downloads from Hendershot's mind, but I've been through many upgrades and they get most of it right sooner or later.  Fortunately I'm in a position where I don't need to use the latest and greatest but can play with it until I'm ready to use it for real work. 

From the beginning I liked the workflow of X1 and could see it would be speedy - once I got up to speed.  I liked PC - esp. the EQ.  I wasn't sold on the comp as much, but still have all my old favorites.  And I figured they'd add more emulations to it.  I didn't realize they would add new modules, tho that makes perfect sense.

As far as the "fixes" in expanded - I imagine they'll worm their way into the next free upgrade.  Not because I have some special source of information, but it makes business sense.  You don't piss off your base - or Cakewalk hasn't in the past.  I don't expect to see a free softube or scrolling PC or gate/limiter, tho some of that will make it to X2 Producer or Y1 or whatever is the next version of SONAR is called.  That is what they've done in the past, and even tho it pisses off those that bought them separate we can justify it as the price of getting it early.

Basically I didn't have faith in Cakewalk so much as they've always improved SONAR - in my opinion.  Jumping to a new version is always tricky and I figured there would be more problems to work out.  Some of the problems were just learning a new piece of software, but many complaints were justified and some stuff still needs to get worked out.  Still, it is good to see people writing about how they use SONAR X1, rather than how it is different than SONAR 8.5 or it should work like this or it should make toast, too, while bouncing

Overall, X1 is pretty good.  Today I was messing with a personal project that I had already step-sequenced a little drum loop, bass and main synth riff.  I froze the sequences, acifided them and rolled the loops out to 16 bars.  One of the drum hits was hitting red and I fixed it in the acid process using the gain on the splice vol. Then I thought "how easy" when I  hit M for marker (just like Vegas) and wrote in the 16 measures start and ends to keep me from counting bars again.  I learned drum programming on a yamaha RX series and a note pad to program in all the little parts.  God help you if you changed the structure with that.  Then I played a keyboard part, cleaned it up with the piano roll in a different screenset, and it worked with the rhythm.  That was most of the verse section.  So it was on to the chorus.  I do wish, among other things, the file creation/naming in SONAR was better.  I have a bunch of unused sequenced loops (audio now) that need to be deleted but don't trust the audio cleaner in SONAR to do it and housecleaning is not one of my favorite things to do when I fire up the ole daw.  One of the acidizing files turned out bad - but the next processing worked fine.  Damned if I know why or who to blame (likely operator error) but it was easy enough to plow on.  So working on the song was a realitively painless procedure and X1 is a great tool.  It has taken me a while, but it pretty much gets out of the way these days. 

I guess I should have put little smiley/winky faces with my first post, so people would have known I was kidding.  As I said above, I'm glad people are getting work done on X1 and giving tips on how they are using it.  Much better than complaining ;-)

AT:

If anyone didn't understand you were kidding around in your first post of this thread, they are slow or just want to invite the negativity that's been going on since the X1 release.

There are always those that just tend to spread negativity around here, but that's certainly not you.:)

Cya around.

This thread is more like it. It starts off happy. I like it. I'm happy too.

Charlie - not needing any third party plug ins to get above average mixes? You then mention brick wall limiters - wouldn't a limiter be used in mastering not mixing?

It would be a lot more convenient if the PC were imbued with a little less voodoo.

We KNOW what a compressor/limiter is supposed to do. Digital implementations (can) do it perfectly. So why would I want to have two imperfect analog emulations thrust in-my-face every day? And EQ? Why not label those features for what they really do instead of making them mysterious?

I prefer to know where my sounds are coming from.

For this reason, PLEASE put the elements that make up the PC in separate selectable plugs for those who want them.

My personal choice would be some of the options from Channel Tools...  just enough to better control basic track width and pan (vs balance).  That way Channel Tools would still serve its purpose for more esoteric needs, and for M/S processing.
 

JazzSinger


It would be a lot more convenient if the PC were imbued with a little less voodoo.

We KNOW what a compressor/limiter is supposed to do. Digital implementations (can) do it perfectly. So why would I want to have two imperfect analog emulations thrust in-my-face every day? And EQ? Why not label those features for what they really do instead of making them mysterious?

I prefer to know where my sounds are coming from.

For this reason, PLEASE put the elements that make up the PC in separate selectable plugs for those who want them.

I like having access to various types of compression. That's one of the reasons why Logic's own compressor is my absolute favorites: it emulates all those behaviors and also offers modern/digital compression. It may not have the fancy knobs and the large VU, but just put that on the channel and you have access to any of that analog mojo if that's what you are after OR then, you can opt for a more modern approach. But it'll do anything. The sound is there. I have yet to find a situation where it doesn't work. 

This always reminds me how Native Instrument started with a modular system with which you could do everything and then started packaging and reselling the individual components (synths) w/ a nice GUI. That was their golden ticket...


The Sonitus compressor - though it could be improved - was also like that. One plug-in, various behaviors. I don't see a reason why a compressor has to be limited to one type of behavior/emulation. Of course, if you start selling a plug-in which has a GUI that looks like a LA-2A, it will prevent you from implementing other behaviors because of the GUI layout. But besides the ergonomics (and that part isn't an issue with a modern design) there is no reason why a single plug-in cannot do all those things. 


But can you imagine a software developer telling you you only need ONE plug-in? They have to keep the revenue coming in.


Interestingly enough, some small developers, like Valhalla DSP, keep on adding different types of algorithms in their plug-in (at no extra cost).  Their reverb is incredible and keeps on receiving upgrades. 


Maybe, hopefully, PC fills that gap - for a minimal fee, you can upgrade it with various types of algorithms. Though I still think a dedicated no-non sense GUI would be better.

ba_midi

yorolpal


Oh I agree 150% Billy, ol pal.  I don't mean to say at all that the PC is the be all and end all of channel strips or that there isn't much better stuff out there.  There is.  I own quite a bit of it;-) 

But, as you allude, I think Cake has done a bang up job of providing almost everything you'd need to produce a quality professional mix without the need to spend any more on 3rd party plugs.  Heck although I never use the synths or drums that come with Sonar either I betcha a dime to a donut I could produce out a project using only the included instruments and effects that would scare the beejeesus outta most of the sick and shut in and unwashed.  Honest.  No brag...just fact. 

That said, I won't be givin up ANY of my big ol colorin box full of third party plugs.  I ain't crazy!!

Yup - no question  one can produce a complete and professional product using just the CW supplied stuff.   And no question the sick, shut in and unwashed would be beejeesus-ing a lot LOL

I will add that even on the synth side of things there have been big improvements.   I was never a fan of Session Drummer, but SD3 is a marked improvement and very useable, very tweakable plugin now.   Z3ta+ was always great, but the new 2.1 is another leap forward.   Rapture and Dim Pro also are strong tools in the CW arsenal.

This is all the more reason I hope that -- along with all the kudos, we also keep pressure on CW to get the flagship app (SONAR) to be as stable as can be, and to bring us more tools/features like Expanded that give us the ability to do just about anything we need/want to do in a DAW.

I don't know if it's just me - but it seems like there's also a lot more "compatibility" going on in the entire DAW market.   I'm not seeing 3rd party stuff crash as often as some used to; and I'm seeing what appears to be better cooperation and involvement from all the players out there (ie, vendors).

In the end - ALL of this leads to us musicians and creative persons having a good ol time, eh ol pal? ;)

Agreed.  This is what I've been saying for a while now.  Most DAW's provide strong tools out of the box and Sonar is one of the strongest in this area imo.  There are more than adequate tools available even before Pro Channel, which is why I REALLY hope they take some time to focus their attention on making strides in some of the weaker areas of Sonar such as the audio engine, Audio Snap, etc. rather than focusing most of their efforts on bringing us a bunch of PC modules for which there are already several high quality alternatives in the vst world. 

Here I'm producing a lot and there is no time for blogging... X1e works very well! Perhaps expensive, but I think that CW guys must be supported!

Hi Rain- I bought the channel strip and buss comp. The low pass on the ChannelStrip doesn't always work for some reason in Sonar. Can't quite figure that out. Love the ChannelStrip though- can find a good sound very easily with it.

Totally agree that plugin people shouldn't keep replicating stuff.  Although who can blame SSL when they made the original! Fabfilter is a company who is holding the torch to show how modern plugins should be done- not ceaselessly emulating the past.

I authorised the SSL stuff on my Reason dongle- saved some bucks there... Can't participate in the beta because they only want RTAS testers on PC. Rats, such is life.

I have only demoed OldTimer (along with Vintage Warmer) and they are both terrific but I can't justify buying them. I wish companied like PSP and Voxengo could somehow be bought into the Cakewalk fold- maybe the ProChannel offers the possibility.

HAPPY THREAD +1

The program is suck, Ol Pal! That's all you need to know. And good luck!