The Unintended Christmas

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Starise
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2012/12/07 16:04:59 (permalink)

The Unintended Christmas

  
  This is a piece I have been recently working on. Used a model of an Epiphone Casino on variax JTV-69 using  pickups on the bridge.This is a remix of the original I made a week or so ago. I replaced the keys bass with real bass and adjusted the low end slightly to add tome more bass depth to the tune. I remixed the guitars so they would fit better in the overall mix as well.Lots of other small corrections made.  Crits welcome!
 
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https://soundcloud.com/starise/the-unintended-christmas
post edited by Starise - 2012/12/14 21:57:31

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    Lynn
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    Re:The Unintended Christmas 2012/12/07 16:23:56 (permalink)
    Yes, I agree with you that the gtr is a bit in front of the mix.  However, the song is very nice.  I never know what to expect from you, but each time it's something good!  Just one or two little changes to this mix and it will be a gem.

    All the best,
    Lynn

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    Starise
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    Re:The Unintended Christmas 2012/12/07 16:26:14 (permalink)
     Thanks Lynn. I'll work on that. I'm glad you can hear it there. I am having technical difficulty on my soundcloud. I only heard it if I went to Google and found my track that way. I can't get to my page.

     

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    daryl1968
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    Re:The Unintended Christmas 2012/12/07 16:30:17 (permalink)
    Agree with Lynn - gonna be a good 'un
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    Starise
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    Re:The Unintended Christmas 2012/12/07 16:31:03 (permalink)
     Thanks Daryl!

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    Old55
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    Re:The Unintended Christmas 2012/12/08 01:22:31 (permalink)
    Cool song, Starise.  

    Should auld acquaintance be forgot--hey, who the hell are you guys?  
     
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    The Band19
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    Re:The Unintended Christmas 2012/12/08 20:55:42 (permalink)
    I like it, it feels a little "hot?" Like you're pushing it a little too hard. I would pull that lead guitar down a little so it's not pushing so hard on the mains, or maybe keep it where it is, and pull the mains down a little? So they're not kicking the limiter's arse. But hey, everybody's a producer? And please keep in mind that any advice I give, may be, "and probably is" wrong.

    I liked the song. Merry Christmas!

    And I also enjoyed the fact that this wasn't posted originally by eko, or bumped by someone who only posts on his threads. And that you don't have like 20 songs on the 1st page of the forum? That means a lot to me as well. In fairness, we all like to be heard? And I could pepper the forum w/a bunch of my stuff? But a little restraint goes a long way.


    ME TALKING ABOUT RESTRAINT!! LOL!!!
    post edited by The Band19 - 2012/12/08 22:50:19

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    Beagle
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    Re:The Unintended Christmas 2012/12/09 14:23:28 (permalink)
    Tim - this is really cool! 

    I do think the guitar is a little too hot (but I understand from your references why you mixed it that way) and I think the piano is a little "muddy" sounding at the beginning (but not at the break)

    but I do love this and hope you continue to develop it! 

    really cool!

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    Scottytunes
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    Re:The Unintended Christmas 2012/12/09 15:27:04 (permalink)
    Yikes! The guitar is a LOT too out front and hot! Made it impossible to hear the rest of the mix. I'm sure you'll tame this one down to come together in the next mix or three. Looking forward to the rework.

    String Jammer
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    notnat
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    Re:The Unintended Christmas 2012/12/10 13:08:25 (permalink)
    yeah, pull the guitars back a bit... the piano sounds so fine... what did you play that on... That is a great sounding piano...
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    Starise
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    Re:The Unintended Christmas 2012/12/10 22:46:14 (permalink)
     Lynn- Thanks for your comments here. I pulled the guitars back and re wrote a few of the parts. The Guitars are still up front but hopefully not as much. I also reworked the piano eqs.

     Old55- Thanks for listening!

    TheBand19- I appreciate the very useful advice you gave here. I attempted to do this and still keep things lively. I removed one of the guitar parts that were lagging to let the piano shine a little more as well.

    Beagle- Thanks for listening. I seen what you meant by the piano and shaped it a little more here in the remix.

    Scotty- I hope you have the volume down a little more if you listen again lol. Sorry man I didn't intend to make it that hot.

    notnat- Thanks for your input! I used a combination of piano track. and balanced them. One is a Roland hardware unit and another is Sampetekk white lady and yet another is Pianissimo.

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    Re:The Unintended Christmas 2012/12/11 07:49:47 (permalink)
    Hey Tim,

    Very cool tune.  I really like the instrument selection and layout.  Have to agree about the "hotness" of your guitar.  And one other crit... the whole mix sounds a tad bright and a little thin on my system (which is odd 'cuz it's usually the opposite...), as if a bit too much Enhancement/Exciter on it.  Maybe just me though.

    Great creativity my friend!  Merry Christmas!

    Cheers!

    Tony

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    Starise
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    Re:The Unintended Christmas 2012/12/11 09:09:00 (permalink)
    Tony- You have good ears my friend! I did in fact add some exciter to the pianos because they were recorded sounding a little bit too muffled. There is a lot of energy in the mid region on this tune and maybe I went a little overboard on that count as well. 

     I use a consumer  grade subwoofer tuned with ARC in my small studio because I worry about muddying the low end. I probably err in not putting enough of it out there and this might be making my mixes a little bit mid heavy too....Thanks for giving this a listen and for your comments.

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    #13
    Danny Danzi
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    Re:The Unintended Christmas 2012/12/11 10:24:20 (permalink)
    Hi Starise,

    This is a cool tune! Agree with what's been said already so I won't beat on that. I think for the most part, the mix seems a little bright to my ears and this is after working from 6 pm last night until about an hour ago. So my ears have definitely lost the highs in them about now and this is still a bit bright all through to my ears. I'd definitely low pass it a bit or maybe lighten up on the exciters. Loved what you did here though and you got some cool performances going on.

    I let a few of your other mixes sort of play while I was doing a few other things and now that I'm typing this, they all seem to have that same bright quality going on. Do you feel you're mixing just a little bright on your end? If so, you can maybe try reducing your sub a little bit which will make you mix a bit more bass heavy. Everything just sounds a little thin to me...like you're in need of good low end.

    Everything seems audible though, so your mixing skills are definitely going in the right direction. Lead guitars seem to be a bit loud at times in the tunes, but your mixes seem pretty balanced. We definitely have some high end going on that needs to be curbed a bit though in my opinion. Or we have to at least find out why you're not hearing it as lacking "meat" and see what you can alter on your end.

    It's not just lows though...you seem to be missing low mids and mids. Sort of like things are scooped. The more mids we take out, the smaller the music gets. I think you have some good sound source sizes here, but all the meat seems to be scooped out. Can you hear this at all when you compare your stuff to something that may be close to it in style?

    The good thing is, you're not mixing bass heavy and muddy....so hopefully there is an easy fix for this. You do turn ARC off when you export, right? I know...silly question, but I always ask because quite a few were under the impression they were supposed to leave it on. Also, are you using ARC 2 by chance? If so, have you done anything to the custom EQ? If you have, I'd be curious to hear a mix with it set to flat with just your basic correction so we can see what you're getting that way. Good stuff though brother...I hope you don't take any of this the wrong way. I'm honestly trying to help and enjoyed listening to your songs. :) Thanks for sharing.

    -Danny

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    #14
    Starise
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    Re:The Unintended Christmas 2012/12/11 11:38:25 (permalink)
     Danny- I appreciate your comments here,especially after a long night. Man you better get some rest there! I will never take anything said as anything but constructive so don't worry about that. I appreciate your insight.

     I think I am a little paranoid about muddy lows so I  slightly HP my bass around 50 hz. I usually put a little thin Q in the 200 range on bass bumped maybe 2  db to give some bump on a cheap speaker but I might scoop it  below 30hz.  For some of the things I have done this seemed to work well but as you know it isn't always the same. In this case my bass is around -8db. I could bring it up a few notches.Thanks for that tip. I tried parallel compression on my bass and decided it was too much. I'll revisit that again. 

     I have ARC 2 with settings for "door closed  sub off","door open sub off", "door open sub on" door closed sub on" and a few others with the 80hz filter engaged and not engaged on my mixer. My tendency without ARC is to mix  bass differently because of the standing waves.With ARC on I have a much better picture but I tend to forget that and mix the old way.I guess I need to add a little thud below that range. I need to remind myself that its ok to hear some thud with ARC on.Before I had ARC hearing loud bass wasn't necessarily a good thing in a small studio.I did remove ARC before I mixed down.No custom Eq going on.

     The guitars in this mix started out lethargic so I bussed all four of them to a main guitar volume which I compressed and added a reverb send to a master reverb buss from that buss. I automated the master volume so I could control all my guitars.I put Izotope Alloy in this buss as well and now I guess I need to back off it some ....no more skimpy guitars lol. I also added a little small mid. freq bump in the mids to the guitar eq. in the 5khz range. I knew the guits had some meat I got a little over zealous I guess.

     I did scoop the highs on this bass thinking it would leave more headroom for the other instruments. I'll look at changing that too.

     Thanks for your comments! I'll make some changes when I get the chance.

      

     

     



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    foxwolfen
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    Re:The Unintended Christmas 2012/12/11 23:31:23 (permalink)
    Well, I am going to be the voice of dissent here. In this sense the lead guitar is not just the lead guitar, its the lead voice. I like it out front and in your face. I did not hear any clipping like Robby, but I would try to bring a bit more energy into the low end. It sounds like you used the left hand on the piano for most of the lows, which I loved, but, low piano notes do not carry a deep tone (just resonance), which I feel this needs to round it out. - Cheers, Shad. - edit - just read Danny's reply and I am in agreement.
    post edited by foxwolfen - 2012/12/11 23:35:21

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    Danny Danzi
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    Re:The Unintended Christmas 2012/12/12 05:19:52 (permalink)
    Starise


     Danny- I appreciate your comments here,especially after a long night. Man you better get some rest there! I will never take anything said as anything but constructive so don't worry about that. I appreciate your insight.

    I think I am a little paranoid about muddy lows so I  slightly HP my bass around 50 hz. I usually put a little thin Q in the 200 range on bass bumped maybe 2  db to give some bump on a cheap speaker but I might scoop it  below 30hz.  For some of the things I have done this seemed to work well but as you know it isn't always the same. In this case my bass is around -8db. I could bring it up a few notches.Thanks for that tip. I tried parallel compression on my bass and decided it was too much. I'll revisit that again. 

    I have ARC 2 with settings for "door closed  sub off","door open sub off", "door open sub on" door closed sub on" and a few others with the 80hz filter engaged and not engaged on my mixer. My tendency without ARC is to mix  bass differently because of the standing waves.With ARC on I have a much better picture but I tend to forget that and mix the old way.I guess I need to add a little thud below that range. I need to remind myself that its ok to hear some thud with ARC on.Before I had ARC hearing loud bass wasn't necessarily a good thing in a small studio.I did remove ARC before I mixed down.No custom Eq going on.

    The guitars in this mix started out lethargic so I bussed all four of them to a main guitar volume which I compressed and added a reverb send to a master reverb buss from that buss. I automated the master volume so I could control all my guitars.I put Izotope Alloy in this buss as well and now I guess I need to back off it some ....no more skimpy guitars lol. I also added a little small mid. freq bump in the mids to the guitar eq. in the 5khz range. I knew the guits had some meat I got a little over zealous I guess.

    I did scoop the highs on this bass thinking it would leave more headroom for the other instruments. I'll look at changing that too.

    Thanks for your comments! I'll make some changes when I get the chance.

     




    Whew, glad I didn't offend you. :) I too was a bit reserved when I started using ARC. But it's safe to say, you have to learn to trust it and if you fail after trusting it, it might be time for a new correction procedure. Whatever is happening, you're definitely losing beef. Just curious Starise....when you listened to the song I did with Philip, did it sound too bassy to you on your end? I know our songs are different....but when you compare mine to yours side by side low end wise, does it leave you saying "wow, he's got way too much low end in that?"
     
    Then listen to something commercial and compare side by side with yours. Not for production values, just to test the low end. If it sounds like the commercial song is too bottomy, I would say you may need to do a new correction with ARC. Something is causing you to pull out the low end. If you try working with this mix again, let yourself go and push the bass to where it actually sounds good to you. Even if it's too much. Then, repost and I'll let you know what I'm hearing over here. If you post and don't see me, please send me a pm to let me know you posted it so I can give you some feedback.
     
    I think you'll be in good shape once we can figure out if it's your system or you just being overly cautious. Feel free to do this testing in private with me if you want to. Send me an email or a pm and we can work it out together if you want to, ok? :)
     
    -Danny

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    #17
    Guitarhacker
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    Re:The Unintended Christmas 2012/12/12 07:48:38 (permalink)
    cool project and well done...

    As a guitar player myself.... I must ask the question... Is a guitar ever too loud? 

    After shouting a firm "NO... turn it up to 11 and rip the knobs off!"

    the producer in me tempers that and says... yeah... perhaps. 

    nicely done. 

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    #18
    Starise
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    Re:The Unintended Christmas 2012/12/14 22:01:39 (permalink)
     Herb- Thanks for your comments.
     
     Shad- I totally agree that the guitar should be out in front here. Hopefully this time it is out front but not painfully out front. Thanks for listening.
     
    Danny- I re recorded the bass part here with my trusty ltd. I hope it makes a difference. I really appreciate your willing ness to listen and help me to get it right.

     I did make some critical adjustments to the guitars to make them fit better in the mix.I replaced the keys bass with a fuller tone from my acoustic bass and added a few vocal fill parts as well as some very low key percussion except for the cymbals. I did notice the bass holding over slightly on one place in the mix but I'll need to change that later.

     Here is the remix- https://soundcloud.com/starise/the-unintended-christmas
    post edited by Starise - 2012/12/14 22:15:06

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    CLEAN
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    Re:The Unintended Christmas 2012/12/14 22:08:39 (permalink)
    Love it.

    THE PUGTONES
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    Starise
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    Re:The Unintended Christmas 2012/12/14 22:16:30 (permalink)
     Thanks Mark for listening!

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    Re:The Unintended Christmas 2012/12/14 22:22:44 (permalink)
    The guitar does get a little loud in places for the style.  But not always.  I'd be careful w/ it.  And it does sound a little bass shy, but then on these computer speakers there ain't no bass and half the time what is there disappears so it is hard to judge.

    Good song, tho, and well done

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    Re:The Unintended Christmas 2012/12/14 22:37:57 (permalink)
    Hey Starise
    Excellent piece/arrangement. WOW . . . the performance on the piano/guitars are killer and sound like they are played with energy/dynamics.  The mix sounds good with a real nice high and low end.  IMO I would still pull the guitars back a smidge more. KUDOS!

    Kev
    post edited by drumstixkev - 2012/12/14 22:39:09

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    ABeautifulVirus
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    Re:The Unintended Christmas 2012/12/15 11:47:10 (permalink)
    hey Tim- 

    quite a gem u have here :)  a most beautiful blend of homages to the sounds of Elton John, Queen, a bit of Wings, and I'm hearing some King Crimson/Robert Fripp gtr too 

    i don't mind as much the gtr being kinda front and center being a guitar player and all lol 

    diggin' the staccato part as well that starts at 1:46 

    a most lovely noise, bro.  i feel like i've journeyed somewhere upon listening .... 

    -Daren
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    Re:The Unintended Christmas 2012/12/15 11:55:32 (permalink)
    Starise
     
     
     Note- Soundcloud no longer loads on windows explorer browsers 8 or before. 
    https://soundcloud.com/starise/the-unintended-christmas




    btw there is a work-around for this for anyone having browser issues w/ the new SC version --

    what you do is:

    1) copy the SC song page URL you want to listen to to your computer's clipboard 

    2) log-on to SC's mobile site via mobile login URL  { http://m.soundcloud.com  } 

    3) paste the URL into your browser web address bar and hit 'return' or 'enter' 

    you will then be viewing the SC song page on the old/classic site version, and can navigate around the rest of SC from there ....

    -Daren 



    #25
    Starise
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    Re:The Unintended Christmas 2012/12/19 21:29:20 (permalink)
      I have made probably the last changes to this mix pending any crits about the bass. I am still iffy on some of the bass in this but can't quite put a finger on what it is.

      I might add a continuation to this later on, sort of like a story in song. Thanks for all of the comments from the fine folks here on the forum!

     Mark- Thanks for listening! 

     AT- I appreciate your listening and comments here. I made a few tweaks on the mix.

    Kev- Thanks for your kind comments . I did as you said and made a few adjustments to the mix.. Thanks!

    Daren- Thanks man! That means a lot coming from a guitar player such as yourself. I am really digging your tracks! Thanks for the info on the browser too. Take care my friend.

    Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, ,
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    #26
    The Band19
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    Re:The Unintended Christmas 2012/12/19 22:05:50 (permalink)
    Listening again. Turned it up... There's something that sounds like a needle in a groove? In places, I'm not sure if this is intentional.  Those lead guitars are certainly much hotter than the surrounding material. They do sound good... That one that comes in at 1:14 is too dominant IMO, then again @ 2:30. 

    I like how it changes pace, like a Beatles song @ 1:44. This sounds better overall, I can tell it's been mixed. I listened 3 times... and at 31-33 seconds is an example of what I'm talking about. I'm hearing it as distortion in the high end? (like static) Happens again @ 1:31 and again at 1:37. I may be hearing things if no one else is hearing it :-(

    Merry Christmas, and don't get me wrong, great job!! Cool tune.

    Sittin downtown in a railway station one toke over the line.
    #27
    twisted6s
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    Re:The Unintended Christmas 2012/12/21 07:11:40 (permalink)
    Absolutely Lovely!!

    Core 2 Quad Q9650 3.0 ghz processor, 8 gig ram, 2.5Tb drives, Sonar Platinum, Lynx L22, FMR Audio RNP & RNC, Mackie HR824, Neumann tlm 103, Window 10 64
    https://soundcloud.com/twisted6s/sets/tony-pruden

     
          
    #28
    whack
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    Re:The Unintended Christmas 2012/12/21 07:38:11 (permalink)
    The intro melody certainly sounds "unintended" in a good way.

    Some fantastic performances here and classical melodies zipping everywhere.

    Yes those guitar lead sounds to condensed, dry and upfront in parts.

    Piano sounds good to me.

    Good job,

    Cian



    www.cmcgmusic.com

    Melody and Meaning
    #29
    Starise
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    Re:The Unintended Christmas 2012/12/24 12:13:56 (permalink)
     Thanks guys for listening and your comments.Special thanks to Band19 for pointing out the hiss. I found the source of the hiss. It was one of the Kontakt synths.

     I wish you all a wonderful Christmas!

    Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, ,
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    #30
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