The Value in X3

Just to put things in perspective, and I really wasn't happy about the upgrade price increase,
but, when all things are considered, this is the the intrinsic value of X3

Tape Emulator - most sell for about $100
QuadCurve w/Flyout - a good EQ sells for at least $100
Addictive Drums - Retails for $179 and usually sells for $149
Nomad Factory Blue Tubes Bundle - $399 retail and usually sells for about $299 and can be had for less when on sale but still...
Bifiliter 2 - Sells for $49 Retail
Melodyne Essential - Retail $99 AND you get a special upgrade price on Editor

Speed Comping - PRICELESS
ARA Integration - PRICELESS
AUDIO TO MIDI Drag and Drop - PRICELESS

So, when you REALLY look at this, this it IS a SUPER TREMENDOUS incredible value for the money....

Just thought I'd throw this out there and put things in perspective...

cclarry - after reading your post I was thinking back on some old I think MasterCard TV commercials that had the final tag line "Priceless".

But seriously, the whole experience of Sonar X3 Producer, working with it on songs and with the Cakewalk team being so communicative on the forum, my satisfaction for the price is batting a 1000. This going to be my most productive year for music for sure, and in many ways the best year, largely due to how great Sonar X3 is.

X3 Producer, isn't it?

tomixornot

Beepster
Which is why I still think they should offer a Producer version that has all those extras stripped out for $50 so people who waited patiently for an X2 patch can have access to the increased stability and design fixes. $100 for a version with Melodyne (to make up for Audiosnap being broken), Quad Curve and maybe the tape sim.
 
 

Totally agree. Cake should drop the basic version and make it bare bone X3 Pro Channel.

I was looking at Studio but it's a little too stripped out for the price ($100). I also found out last night that ANY Sonar owner gets that same price. Meaning someone who bought a version of X1 Essentials (and nothing else) can buy it for the exact same cost as I can who sprung for the Production Suite AND the X2 upgrade.
 
Crazy, man.
 
Sorry... still a little salty about that. I'll try to shut up now.

Beepster
Which is why I still think they should offer a Producer version that has all those extras stripped out for $50 so people who waited patiently for an X2 patch can have access to the increased stability and design fixes. $100 for a version with Melodyne (to make up for Audiosnap being broken), Quad Curve and maybe the tape sim.
 
 

Beeps...I hear you.  I already owned a lot of those things in Producer (AD and Melodyne)
But what I decided to do was sell my existing copy of AD and Melodyne and THEN do 
the upgrade, so for me it was a WIN WIN.  My suggestion when it first came out was to 
go back to Producer @$99 and Production Suite @ $149 Model, but, when you consider
everything that is included I still believe it is an incredible value.

No one (REALLY) is less happy about the lack of bug fixes (and communication) with
X2a then I was...I was quite vocal about it.  But, after doing the do, and doing the upgrade
I've found that inherently it is a superb value for money from every perspective.

If you already own the things contained in X3 P then sell them and defer the cost.
If you don't already own them then you're getting A LOT for the money.
 
I still have lot's of issues with it...and am hoping the X3c gets some of them resolved...
But, I seriously have to say...it IS a tremendous value...

Beepster

cclarry

Beepster
Which is why I still think they should offer a Producer version that has all those extras stripped out for $50 so people who waited patiently for an X2 patch can have access to the increased stability and design fixes. $100 for a version with Melodyne (to make up for Audiosnap being broken), Quad Curve and maybe the tape sim.
 
 

Beeps...I hear you.  I already owned a lot of those things in Producer (AD and Melodyne)
But what I decided to do was sell my existing copy of AD and Melodyne and THEN do 
the upgrade, so for me it was a WIN WIN.  My suggestion when it first came out was to 
go back to Producer @$99 and Production Suite @ $149 Model, but, when you consider
everything that is included I still believe it is an incredible value.

No one (REALLY) is less happy about the lack of bug fixes (and communication) with
X2a then I was...I was quite vocal about it.  But, after doing the do, and doing the upgrade
I've found that inherently it is a superb value for money from every perspective.

If you already own the things contained in X3 P then sell them and defer the cost.
If you don't already own them then you're getting A LOT for the money.
 
I still have lot's of issues with it...and am hoping the X3c gets some of them resolved...
But, I seriously have to say...it IS a tremendous value...

It is indeed an outstanding value. I do not argue that whatsoever. If you need or want those extra dealybobs it is really actually quite insane value... BUT I am not a man of luxury. I must be very cautious and chaste with my purchases because none of this is making me any money yet. I anticipated at this point with all the calculated investments I could stop hemorrhaging for a little while and get to work.
 
That's all I want is to get to work... and I am. It's just far more glitchy and annoying than I think I deserve after all the money I've forked over. I built my system based on Sonar recommended specs. I bought a new interface because support told me to. All the extra software I've bought had Sonar in mind. To have the actual host behave this way after all that is rather upsetting.
 
I would not continue beating this dead horse if I didn't think that maybe, somehow, someway it might make the powers that be see that there ARE people out there who would pay for something like things and have all disillusionment disappear with such a benevolent and mutually beneficial act on their part.
 
To quote Phillip J Fry "TAKE MY MONEY!!!"

All EXCELLENT points Beeps...I do agree with you...

@CClarry
 
We seem to have been on the mainpage for the most part throughout much of this and the support has been appreciated. As far as selling stuff the extras I've bought are a) better than what's included b) probably not transferable anyway c) likely wouldn't fetch me much money in the current economic climate (I would lose a LOT of money).
 
The only things that interest me are the Quad Curve (but the old one works fine and I've already got a buttload of other EQs... and EQ is an EQ if you know how to use them.) and Melodyne integration but only to replace Audiosnap which I'd be more than happy with if it worked properly and VVocal which I have even used yet so I don't know if I actually need something for pitch correction. I have however been more interested in Nectar for that kind of thing anyway because it comes bundled with some other Izotope stuff I want.
 
X1 PS and X2 gave me my third party plug value. If I hadn't already bought those packages and invested in my specific add ons X3 would be pretty darned slick. I'd be more inclined to buy it if they had included things I DO need/want like the Concrete Limiter or aligned themselves with Izotope and tossed in RX (to replace/improve on R-Mix) or some of their other mastering tools.
 
Seriously the final frontier of plug ins for my DAW are Mastering tools. It kind of cracks me up that Sonar doesn't include a stereo field analyzer. Maybe X3 does but it seems like the type of thing Cake could easily put together themselves as a PC module or something.
 
That's all very specific to my needs though and I certainly would expect packages to reflect what I personally want but that's why a stripped down Producer upgrade for a lower price would be extremely tantalizing for the guys who have it all already. An a la carte version would be even better. This would probably screw up cross promotion deals though which I know they rely on to keep prices down but that still shouldn't allow outside entities to dictate the price of the base program for the heavily invested customers.
 
Anyway... gotta check on an accidental bounce/freeze which should be done now. Cheers.

+1
 
X3 Producer's features and stability alone make the upgrade price more than fair to me. The plug-ins that an X1 user would not get by jumping to X3 would justify their price as well (losing R-MIX SONAR and V-Vocal would be a big deal to me). I have bought probably 6 plug-ins, and the rest have come from SONAR only, and I have 152 loaded (more than I will ever actually use).
 
From the perspective of "entertainment for your money"... for $150 you could do many things, and that investment "goes away" after a very short time and becomes just "money spent." For example, you could watch 10 movies (or less) and get about 20 hours of "use." X3 producer has as much "use" as you want to dedicate to using it.

Beepster
Which is why I still think they should offer a Producer version that has all those extras stripped out for $50 so people who waited patiently for an X2 patch can have access to the increased stability and design fixes. $100 for a version with Melodyne (to make up for Audiosnap being broken), Quad Curve and maybe the tape sim.
 
 

We do offer those...
 
It's call SONAR X3 for $49 (no ProChannel and additional plugins)
 
We also have SONAR X3 Studio for $99 (Includes Melodyne, Blue Tubes FX,  ProChannel plus you can use all your existing PC modules)
 
If you want Tape Sim and QuadCurve, you have to go up to the Producer. You have to remember that each version includes way more value than what you are paying for...I think we are being more than fair. Sorry you don't see it that way. The pricing is finalized so no matter how many times you post it, it's not going to change. Let's just move on.

Beepster

cclarry

Beepster
Which is why I still think they should offer a Producer version that has all those extras stripped out for $50 so people who waited patiently for an X2 patch can have access to the increased stability and design fixes. $100 for a version with Melodyne (to make up for Audiosnap being broken), Quad Curve and maybe the tape sim.
 
 

Beeps...I hear you.  I already owned a lot of those things in Producer (AD and Melodyne)
But what I decided to do was sell my existing copy of AD and Melodyne and THEN do 
the upgrade, so for me it was a WIN WIN.  My suggestion when it first came out was to 
go back to Producer @$99 and Production Suite @ $149 Model, but, when you consider
everything that is included I still believe it is an incredible value.

No one (REALLY) is less happy about the lack of bug fixes (and communication) with
X2a then I was...I was quite vocal about it.  But, after doing the do, and doing the upgrade
I've found that inherently it is a superb value for money from every perspective.

If you already own the things contained in X3 P then sell them and defer the cost.
If you don't already own them then you're getting A LOT for the money.
 
I still have lot's of issues with it...and am hoping the X3c gets some of them resolved...
But, I seriously have to say...it IS a tremendous value...

It is indeed an outstanding value. I do not argue that whatsoever. If you need or want those extra dealybobs it is really actually quite insane value... BUT I am not a man of luxury. I must be very cautious and chaste with my purchases because none of this is making me any money yet. I anticipated at this point with all the calculated investments I could stop hemorrhaging for a little while and get to work.
 
That's all I want is to get to work... and I am. It's just far more glitchy and annoying than I think I deserve after all the money I've forked over. I built my system based on Sonar recommended specs. I bought a new interface because support told me to. All the extra software I've bought had Sonar in mind. To have the actual host behave this way after all that is rather upsetting.
 
I would not continue beating this dead horse if I didn't think that maybe, somehow, someway it might make the powers that be see that there ARE people out there who would pay for something like things and have all disillusionment disappear with such a benevolent and mutually beneficial act on their part.
 
To quote Phillip J Fry "TAKE MY MONEY!!!"

Like I have said before, the value in each version is tremendous. Even with the $99 upgrade to SONAR X3 Studio, you get way way way more than $99 in functionality. I don't agree with you but I have read your posts and understand your position.

Beepster

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]

Beepster
Which is why I still think they should offer a Producer version that has all those extras stripped out for $50 so people who waited patiently for an X2 patch can have access to the increased stability and design fixes. $100 for a version with Melodyne (to make up for Audiosnap being broken), Quad Curve and maybe the tape sim.
 
 

We do offer those...
 
It's call SONAR X3 for $49 (no ProChannel and additional plugins)
 
We also have SONAR X3 Studio for $99 (Includes Melodyne, Blue Tubes FX,  ProChannel plus you can use all your existing PC modules)
 
If you want Tape Sim and QuadCurve, you have to go up to the Producer. You have to remember that each version includes way more value than what you are paying for...I think we are being more than fair. Sorry you don't see it that way. The pricing is finalized so no matter how many times you post it, it's not going to change. Let's just move on.

No Prochannel. I cannot use the Prochannel stuff I paid for. I bought Producer to use Prochannel and all the other professional features. If you allowed me to use the Prochannel stuff and keep my track count and other pro functionality that I have ALREADY PAID FOR in Essential we'd be cool. It is not a replacement for a patch. It is a MASSIVE downgrade. Seriously you guys aren't helping with comments like this. I know you guys have to stay positive about your product and I don't expect you to agree with my opinion publicly or privately but to deride me for being upset about the past year is not cool. I ONLY bring this up in threads that are specifically about these issues. I give you guys credit where credit is do. I stifle my disappointment and opinions about this 99% of the time for the sake of not threadcrapping or trashing Cakewalk/Sonar who I do believe for the most part to be a good company/product.
 
Seriously, if you cannot understand where I'm coming from I don't know what to tell ya but this is now the fourth time a baker has acted like I'm some kind of wackaloon for suggesting that X2 Producer users could be cut a bit of a break. It's salt in the wound and is really not helping nudge me towards any kind of upgrade.
 
Also how exactly is it fair that someone who has bought two of the latest flagship versions has to pay the same price for Essentials or Studio than those who have paid far less? I laid out the math last night. There is a $300 difference for me to downgrade to Studio compared to someone who bought X1 Essentials and nothing else.

Go for the $99 upgrade to SONAR X3 Studio which includes ProChannel. It's a great value and I think you'll be happy. I understand what you are saying but we aren't going to make a special $50 version for you where you can cherry pick the things you want and don't want. Let's move on...seriously.
 
In regards to someone who bought SONAR X1 Essential...they also didn't get the new features and tools we introduced in SONAR X2. Your comparison is seriously flawed. People who stay on the Producer upgrade path each year get the best value and best price, period. They also get to use the latest products longer. I said this before, but I think people who adopt early get the best value when they look at what the average cost of the product was for them over a year. 
 
Ok, now let's move on. Thanks for your feedback. It's been acknowledged and I have replied.

Beepster

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]

Beepster

cclarry

Beepster
Which is why I still think they should offer a Producer version that has all those extras stripped out for $50 so people who waited patiently for an X2 patch can have access to the increased stability and design fixes. $100 for a version with Melodyne (to make up for Audiosnap being broken), Quad Curve and maybe the tape sim.
 
 

Beeps...I hear you.  I already owned a lot of those things in Producer (AD and Melodyne)
But what I decided to do was sell my existing copy of AD and Melodyne and THEN do 
the upgrade, so for me it was a WIN WIN.  My suggestion when it first came out was to 
go back to Producer @$99 and Production Suite @ $149 Model, but, when you consider
everything that is included I still believe it is an incredible value.

No one (REALLY) is less happy about the lack of bug fixes (and communication) with
X2a then I was...I was quite vocal about it.  But, after doing the do, and doing the upgrade
I've found that inherently it is a superb value for money from every perspective.

If you already own the things contained in X3 P then sell them and defer the cost.
If you don't already own them then you're getting A LOT for the money.
 
I still have lot's of issues with it...and am hoping the X3c gets some of them resolved...
But, I seriously have to say...it IS a tremendous value...

It is indeed an outstanding value. I do not argue that whatsoever. If you need or want those extra dealybobs it is really actually quite insane value... BUT I am not a man of luxury. I must be very cautious and chaste with my purchases because none of this is making me any money yet. I anticipated at this point with all the calculated investments I could stop hemorrhaging for a little while and get to work.
 
That's all I want is to get to work... and I am. It's just far more glitchy and annoying than I think I deserve after all the money I've forked over. I built my system based on Sonar recommended specs. I bought a new interface because support told me to. All the extra software I've bought had Sonar in mind. To have the actual host behave this way after all that is rather upsetting.
 
I would not continue beating this dead horse if I didn't think that maybe, somehow, someway it might make the powers that be see that there ARE people out there who would pay for something like things and have all disillusionment disappear with such a benevolent and mutually beneficial act on their part.
 
To quote Phillip J Fry "TAKE MY MONEY!!!"

Like I have said before, the value in each version is tremendous. Even with the $99 upgrade to SONAR X3 Studio, you get way way way more than $99 in functionality. I don't agree with you but I have read your posts and understand your position.

Okay well you posted this while I was typing my other reply. This is a little more civil so thank you. I would have no problem with the pricing IF I could use X2 reliably while I save up but the lack of a patch or any kind of maintenance or communication PLUS a price increase justified by things I don't want or need AND having insinuations of me being a troll, malcontent or pirate is infuriating.
 
I will let this be for today but nothing has changed here. I still think you could scoop up a pile of upgrade dollars from loyal Producer users if you took Essentials, unlocked the track count and bit depth/samplerate counts and allowed us to use our Prochannel modules.
 
Cheers.

Just to be clear, there is no track limitation or fenced bit depth/sample rate on SONAR X3 (it's no longer called Essential). It's unlimited tracks, 64-bit mix engine, VST3, Gobbler, Comping, Color customizations, etc.
 
No you won't get ProChannel modules but for only $50 more you are going to get Melodyne Essential and Blue Tubes FX. Not a bad deal. Plus you can use all your ProChannel modules. 

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]

Beepster

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]

Beepster

cclarry

Beepster
Which is why I still think they should offer a Producer version that has all those extras stripped out for $50 so people who waited patiently for an X2 patch can have access to the increased stability and design fixes. $100 for a version with Melodyne (to make up for Audiosnap being broken), Quad Curve and maybe the tape sim.
 
 

Beeps...I hear you.  I already owned a lot of those things in Producer (AD and Melodyne)
But what I decided to do was sell my existing copy of AD and Melodyne and THEN do 
the upgrade, so for me it was a WIN WIN.  My suggestion when it first came out was to 
go back to Producer @$99 and Production Suite @ $149 Model, but, when you consider
everything that is included I still believe it is an incredible value.

No one (REALLY) is less happy about the lack of bug fixes (and communication) with
X2a then I was...I was quite vocal about it.  But, after doing the do, and doing the upgrade
I've found that inherently it is a superb value for money from every perspective.

If you already own the things contained in X3 P then sell them and defer the cost.
If you don't already own them then you're getting A LOT for the money.
 
I still have lot's of issues with it...and am hoping the X3c gets some of them resolved...
But, I seriously have to say...it IS a tremendous value...

It is indeed an outstanding value. I do not argue that whatsoever. If you need or want those extra dealybobs it is really actually quite insane value... BUT I am not a man of luxury. I must be very cautious and chaste with my purchases because none of this is making me any money yet. I anticipated at this point with all the calculated investments I could stop hemorrhaging for a little while and get to work.
 
That's all I want is to get to work... and I am. It's just far more glitchy and annoying than I think I deserve after all the money I've forked over. I built my system based on Sonar recommended specs. I bought a new interface because support told me to. All the extra software I've bought had Sonar in mind. To have the actual host behave this way after all that is rather upsetting.
 
I would not continue beating this dead horse if I didn't think that maybe, somehow, someway it might make the powers that be see that there ARE people out there who would pay for something like things and have all disillusionment disappear with such a benevolent and mutually beneficial act on their part.
 
To quote Phillip J Fry "TAKE MY MONEY!!!"

Like I have said before, the value in each version is tremendous. Even with the $99 upgrade to SONAR X3 Studio, you get way way way more than $99 in functionality. I don't agree with you but I have read your posts and understand your position.

Okay well you posted this while I was typing my other reply. This is a little more civil so thank you. I would have no problem with the pricing IF I could use X2 reliably while I save up but the lack of a patch or any kind of maintenance or communication PLUS a price increase justified by things I don't want or need AND having insinuations of me being a troll, malcontent or pirate is infuriating.
 
I will let this be for today but nothing has changed here. I still think you could scoop up a pile of upgrade dollars from loyal Producer users if you took Essentials, unlocked the track count and bit depth/samplerate counts and allowed us to use our Prochannel modules.
 
Cheers.

Just to be clear, there is no track limitation or fenced bit depth/sample rate on SONAR X3 (it's no longer called Essential). It's unlimited tracks, 64-bit mix engine, VST3, Gobbler, Comping, Color customizations, etc.
 
No you won't get ProChannel modules but for only $50 more you are going to get Melodyne Essential and Blue Tubes FX. Not a bad deal. Plus you can use all your ProChannel modules. 

Which is why I was looking at Studio. I was just very surprised to find out that just to get that functionality I'd be paying the same price as folks who had any old version AND I lose my Producer upgrade path.
 
And the only thing missing from X2 as far as I can tell is R-Mix and VVocal (which is more than replaced by Melodyne). It is faulty logic and it would have been better to just say "Sorry, man but we ain't changing the price". I had already accepted that was probably the case. I was merely expressing my thoughts on subject matter of this thread and yelling at clouds to release a little impotent rage.
 
Now if you'll excuse me I have to check on a bounce.

I consider it incredible value for money. Save up if you can't afford it now. Good luck.
 
Look at logic- everyone pays 200 to get the new build. Cubase from 6.5-7 is 200, Nuendo 250 (no NEK), Ableton 300. Yet there are guys who think, if I am understanding right, that Cakewalk should do a 50 buck upgrade with everything included apart from third party plugins- except do include Melodyne please. Even if Cakewalk did offer this deal some guys here would find something to cry about I'm certain.
 
As it stands- for 150 (50 less than the other big boys) you get just as much as an upgradeplus they throw in a couple of hundred dollars of third party software- which you may or may not choose to install.