luna004
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The biggest reason I left Sonar.
The most important aspect of the orchestra sequencing is the expression drawing, but the CC panel is strangely changed to Sonar Platinum. I have been protesting the forum for over a year, but the developers are silent, and users simply answer with track automation. The more tracks you have, the harder it takes and the CC editing takes two or three times as much. Sonar updates rolling every month, but the MIDI functions are not going to improve at all and are busy introducing only the audio side functions. It was not until I saw that Sonar, who was a strong editor of MIDI editing, was rather backward to the MIDI side. On the other hand, Cubase has been upgraded to 8 and 9, and has improved many MIDI functions. It features quantized CC data that allows you to adjust the position, length, and velocity of a note with just one click and draw it as if you were just drawing with the mouse. Cubase is reinforcing uncomfortable functions, while Sonar is reinforcing only those features that are lacking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeJ1JU1r-y8
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GLG
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Re: The biggest reason I left Sonar.
2017/01/01 22:55:00
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Good luck and all the best making music with whatever DAW you choose.
Sonar Platinum / Win 7 64bit / Kingston Hyper 1600 16GB / System Drive Kingston SH100S3120G 128GB SSD / Gigabyte Z68X-UD3H-B3 / i72600 3.4Ghz / RME Fireface UC
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luna004
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Re: The biggest reason I left Sonar.
2017/01/01 23:10:03
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But if Sonar has improved in its essential function, I am ready to come back anytime. I just choose DAW which is more convenient for me.
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brundlefly
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Re: The biggest reason I left Sonar.
2017/01/02 01:25:37
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Use the Draw tool to draw controllers.
SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424 (24-bit, 48kHz) Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
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ralf
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Re: The biggest reason I left Sonar.
2017/01/02 02:36:05
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Problem 1: Draw from right to left to end at the final CC.
Problem 2: Can't reproduce this, for me the freehand draw tool works as you want it.
Problem 3: Right, for thousands of CCs, Sonar becomes slow eventually. (Probably an inefficient calculation of the extension that is not limited to the actually visible area.) But only while the CC are shown in PRV. This can be avoided by using one track for playing CC and one for editing, where you move only those clips that you actually want to edit.
Best solution for problem 1 and 3 would be an option to turn off the horizontal CC extension and use vertical lines only (as it was in previous versions).
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luna004
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Re: The biggest reason I left Sonar.
2017/01/02 03:58:47
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The DRAW tool has been fixed? It is a remarkable development. Thank you.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: The biggest reason I left Sonar.
2017/01/02 06:10:45
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Honestly, Cubase's "note expression" is a feature I'm jealous of.
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Kamikaze
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Re: The biggest reason I left Sonar.
2017/01/02 07:12:18
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Yeah, but we got the paint roller Pattern Tool 
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Pragi
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Re: The biggest reason I left Sonar.
2017/01/02 07:33:00
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@ LUNA your statements confirms what I´m thinking about choosing a DAW . The Daws differ most in workflow, not in stability . The workflow is the reason most user like Sonar so much, sorry to hear that the midi workflow of Sonar doesn´t fit your needs. For me that´s perfect.
post edited by Pragi - 2017/08/09 06:16:06
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John
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Re: The biggest reason I left Sonar.
2017/01/02 07:39:24
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Sanderxpander
Honestly, Cubase's "note expression" is a feature I'm jealous of.
If I'm not mistaken it only works with Stainberg's own synths.
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luna004
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Re: The biggest reason I left Sonar.
2017/01/02 07:51:58
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I've been using Sonar for 14 years and I've had no problems until X3. By eliminating the option to turn off the CC panel's Value handle, Sonar completely ignored my way of learning for 10 years. That was a big mistake.
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bitflipper
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Re: The biggest reason I left Sonar.
2017/01/02 08:23:50
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☄ Helpfulby SteveTrotta 2017/01/03 19:26:39
I, too, prefer to hand-plant CCs and find that aspect of SONAR more awkward today than it was under 8.5. Automation is also less convenient now, and I've been waiting years to see some basic enhancements such as scaling and inversion.
Yet despite my complaints I remain a fan with no intention of switching DAWs. Experimentation with alternatives has shown that every one of them has their own strengths and weaknesses, and none offer a solution that's perfect in every regard.
Far more important is achieving a comfort level with a tool that allows you to forget about it, to let it fade into the background of the creative process. If Cubase (or Reaper or Studio One or Logic or a Studer) does that for you then that's the path you should take.
For this complainer, however, SONAR does the job it was hired to do, does it fairly elegantly and - most important - doesn't get in the way of the process.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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AllanH
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Re: The biggest reason I left Sonar.
2017/01/02 11:55:13
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☄ Helpfulby Loptec 2017/01/03 01:30:31
I unfortunately have to agree: automation editing is painful. Similarly, tempo map editing is rudimentary (e.g. cant even see the "nodes"). Sonar does so many things well that I'm hesitant to move. But when I look at the flexibility my friends have with Cubase as far as midi and automation editing, I'm envious.
With all the telemetry Sonar has been collecting, my guess that the typical user does not have these needs, or it would be, or would have been, addressed.
Sonar Platinum, EWHO/D, Spitfire, Miroslav, Pianoteq, ...., Kurzweil.
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JohanSebatianGremlin
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Re: The biggest reason I left Sonar.
2017/01/02 14:09:35
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☄ Helpfulby tlw 2017/01/02 15:36:44
Shrug. I use lots of automation. And I much prefer working with envelopes and I much prefer those envelopes have as few nodes as possible.
If someone can actually hear the difference between my two-node fader moves and someone else's two hundred-node fader moves, well let's face it, that person was never going to like my music anyway.
If gear was the determining factor, we would all have a shelf full of Grammies and a pocket full of change. -microapp i7, 32gb RAM, Win10 64bit, RME UFX
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Anderton
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Re: The biggest reason I left Sonar.
2017/01/02 14:21:21
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AllanH
With all the telemetry Sonar has been collecting, my guess that the typical user does not have these needs, or it would be, or would have been, addressed.
The data being collected is very basic, mostly relating to OS, amount of memory, CPU, whether 32 or 64 bit, time spent in the program, and plug-ins. It will be a while, maybe even quite a while, before analytics gets more granular. The "big brother" paranoia that existed when analytics were first announced was not only not invalid, but caused many people not to enable analytics, thus making Cakewalk's job of improving the program more difficult, and discouraging them from developing it much further. Cakewalk should have done what some other music programs do - enable it by default, and bury that fact in the EULA. But they wanted to be transparent, and of course, no good deed goes unpunished. 
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AllanH
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Re: The biggest reason I left Sonar.
2017/01/02 14:33:06
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Anderton
AllanH
With all the telemetry Sonar has been collecting, my guess that the typical user does not have these needs, or it would be, or would have been, addressed.
The data being collected is very basic, mostly relating to OS, amount of memory, CPU, whether 32 or 64 bit, time spent in the program, and plug-ins. It will be a while, maybe even quite a while, before analytics gets more granular. The "big brother" paranoia that existed when analytics were first announced was not only not invalid, but caused many people not to enable analytics, thus making Cakewalk's job of improving the program more difficult, and discouraging them from developing it much further.
Cakewalk should have done what some other music programs do - enable it by default, and bury that fact in the EULA. But they wanted to be transparent, and of course, no good deed goes unpunished.
My apologies if my previous comment was unclear or seen as inflammatory: I simply meant to say that Sonar now has good telemetry to make product decisions from. I think this is valuable, even if it means that "my favorite" features is less important in view of the telemetry. I agree that Cakewalk communicated well and I thought they had made it clear it was to enable them to better understand how the users use the product.
Sonar Platinum, EWHO/D, Spitfire, Miroslav, Pianoteq, ...., Kurzweil.
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Anderton
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Re: The biggest reason I left Sonar.
2017/01/02 16:04:39
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AllanH
My apologies if my previous comment was unclear or seen as inflammatory No, not at all!!! It's just that you and I had similar expectations of what analytics could do, but more participation would really help. I agree that Cakewalk communicated well and I thought they had made it clear it was to enable them to better understand how the users use the product. Me too, but there were still people who thought Cakewalk was going to steal their music. I think all the companies gorging on analytics have spoiled it for the rest of us. My neighbor was sick so I went out and bought a couple cans of cat food. For the next month, I was deluged with ads for pet supplies, cat adoptions, Petco, etc. etc. The ads I got hit with when I was thinking of taking a vacation in Ghana, and surfed Ghanaweb.com for an evening, were...shall we say...interesting .
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luna004
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Re: The biggest reason I left Sonar.
2017/01/02 21:35:52
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SONAR is still performing its function well, but I hope it develops to be able to select a function option in detail to accommodate more users. I am still a lifetime membership user and I will always watch the changes of SONAR. I support SONAR.
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The Grim 
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Re: The biggest reason I left Sonar.
2017/01/03 01:30:17
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Anderton
. . . but there were still people who thought Cakewalk was going to steal their music. . . .
that was my hope, my thinking was that they might pay me a sum of money to take it back 
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Loptec
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Re: The biggest reason I left Sonar.
2017/01/03 01:50:10
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I won't leave Cakewalk and Sonar, but I completely agree that the MIDI editing is way behind the competition. As well as the tempo map, as stated here above.
I've come with tons of feature requests for the piano roll, but it feels more and more like cake doesn't care about the midi aspect of Sonar any longer..
I really love everything Cakewalk's done with Sonar and it's never been as awesome as it is today..
If they want to survive as a company though and want coming generations of musicians and producers (who take controlling synth and effects via MIDI for granted) to choose Sonar over other DAWs I think Cake really must start thinking of ways to improve these things.
SAMUEL LIDSTRÖM
 DAW: Sonar Platinum (64bit) with Melodyne Studio - Controllers: Roland VS-700C, Cakewalk A-500 Pro, Yamaha P90Desktop Audio Interface: RME HDSPe RayDAT - Laptop Audio Interface: RME Babyface Pro
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chuckebaby
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Re: The biggest reason I left Sonar.
2017/01/03 07:03:23
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Unless Sonar decided to redesign to Console view upside down, Im not switching anytime soon.
I do like to see what's out there (for other DAWs). But the time spent learning a new DAWs features and work flow is time I could be working on a new project. See what I mean ?
In other words, Sonar would have to totally bobble a new release/update to the point where I couldn't complete simple tasks, features that I use every day and it would have to be multiple not just one thing.
I guess I fall under the fan boy title. But in reality, im just a guy trying to make music.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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cyberzip
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Re: The biggest reason I left Sonar.
2017/01/03 09:09:05
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I have also experienced the lagging issue (named "limping phenomenon" in luna004's YouTube video) when you have a lot of CC automation data. I assume it's performance intensive, but maybe that part of the code could be optimized a little? (Maybe also implement a "thin-out automation" feature?)
I would love some more focus on MIDI instead of another comping improvement... :)
Maybe we could compile a wish-list?
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gbowling
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Re: The biggest reason I left Sonar.
2017/01/03 10:25:37
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Anderton
The data being collected is very basic, mostly relating to OS, amount of memory, CPU, whether 32 or 64 bit, time spent in the program, and plug-ins. It will be a while, maybe even quite a while, before analytics gets more granular.
Bummer!! I was hoping my 100s of hours fiddling with Audiosnap over the past few months was giving them some good input. But sadly apparently not. gabo
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: The biggest reason I left Sonar.
2017/01/03 11:14:56
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cyberzip
I have also experienced the lagging issue (named "limping phenomenon" in luna004's YouTube video) when you have a lot of CC automation data. I assume it's performance intensive, but maybe that part of the code could be optimized a little? (Maybe also implement a "thin-out automation" feature?)
I would love some more focus on MIDI instead of another comping improvement... :)
Maybe we could compile a wish-list?
There is a CAL script already in existence to thin out controller data
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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cyberzip
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Re: The biggest reason I left Sonar.
2017/01/03 14:26:22
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Bristol_Jonesey
There is a CAL script already in existence to thin out controller data
Ah, you're right Bristol_Jonesey! Thanks for the reminder. Actually, even as I wrote it, something in the back of my head tried reminding me of that CAL script... :) Could be built into the GUI though for easier and fast access!
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: The biggest reason I left Sonar.
2017/01/03 17:35:23
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Yes it's actually called "Thin Controller Data.cal"
All the .cal scripts are accessed from the Process menu
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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McMoore11
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Re: The biggest reason I left Sonar.
2017/01/03 18:22:32
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I rarely use Midi but when I do I immediately record it to an audio track and delete the midi track.
That probably doesn't help the guys that want to constantly tweak their CC's. But it helps conserve CPU.
Mark.
It takes one to know one, and vice versa. www.wetdogmusic.com www.soundcloud.com/markmoore-1 Sonar Platinum running on a AMD-A10 7700K 3.40 GHz, 32 gig RAM, Windows 10 with 2- 1 Terabyte externals. Black Lion pres and Word Clock into BL modded Motu 896mk3. Shure KSM44 and Neumann U67. Dynaudio BM5 with sub and Blue Sky monitors, Evidence Audio cabling. Auralex treatment. Kona coffee. Michigan craft IPAs.
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bapu
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Re: The biggest reason I left Sonar.
2017/01/03 19:45:00
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To be semantically correct: Since I am on Lifetime updates I'll only leave SONAR when I cease to exist.
However, I will stop using SONAR when it ceases to work for me, which is highly unlikely.
I dabble with two other DAWS (Reaper and Studio One Pro 3.x) but for tracking, editing and pre-production SONAR is still my favorite. Starting this year mixing and mastering will be done in Harrison's Mixbus32C as soon as they fix a bug with UAD and Plug In Alliance base plugins. It's not a major bug but a painful annoyance.
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kitekrazy1
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Re: The biggest reason I left Sonar.
2017/01/04 12:50:10
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2017/01/04 13:52:41
JohanSebatianGremlin
Shrug. I use lots of automation. And I much prefer working with envelopes and I much prefer those envelopes have as few nodes as possible.
If someone can actually hear the difference between my two-node fader moves and someone else's two hundred-node fader moves, well let's face it, that person was never going to like my music anyway.
Post of the week.
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patm300e
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Re: The biggest reason I left Sonar.
2017/01/05 07:31:52
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bapu
Starting this year mixing and mastering will be done in Harrison's Mixbus32C as soon as they fix a bug with UAD and Plug In Alliance base plugins. It's not a major bug but a painful annoyance.
+1 here for at least mastering with Mix Bus. I haven't tried mixing with it...I don't know it as well as SONAR. But for mastering, just the default settings adds that "special sauce" analogue sound.
SPLAT on a Home built i3 16 GB RAM 64-bit Windows 10 Home Premium 120GB SSD (OS) 2TB Data Drive. Behringer XR-18 USB 2.0 Interface. FaderPort control.
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