Helpful ReplyThe creators of South Park had foreseen this...

Page: < 12 Showing page 2 of 2
Author
Karyn
Ma-Ma
  • Total Posts : 9200
  • Joined: 2009/01/30 08:03:10
  • Location: Lincoln, England.
  • Status: offline
Re: The creators of South Park had foreseen this... 2013/08/21 10:41:38 (permalink)
jbow
Karyn
jbow
... I mean how many different ways can you play three chords? People need to lighten up. If the words are different and the music isn't sampled, it is a different song. I'm not saying that anyone should get away with producing a song named Today to the tune of Yesterday...  
J

Well...  you can't copyright 3 chords, or any backing, or rythm.
You can copyright the words and the melody.
 
So you can record your own version of "Yesterday" complete with guitar and strings sounding exactly the same as the orriginal, just as long as you change the words and the melody.  You could even call it "Yesterday" as the title can't be copyrighted either..


In theory...
Try it and see what happens. It will be an interesting experiment... and perhaps Mr. McCartney will pay you!
 
Julien
 


Hopefully, if word gets around, Mr. McCartney will pay me NOT to do it...  (as would most people...)

Mekashi Futo
Get 10% off all Waves plugins.
Current DAW.  i7-950, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, 12Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD, 2x2Tb HDD, nVidia GTX 260, Antec 1000W psu, Win7 64bit, Studio 192, Digimax FS, KRK RP8G2, Sonar Platinum

#31
slartabartfast
Max Output Level: -22.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5289
  • Joined: 2005/10/30 01:38:34
  • Status: offline
Re: The creators of South Park had foreseen this... 2013/08/21 12:07:39 (permalink)
Here is a somewhat less superficial report on the case: http://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverherzfeld/2013/08/20/the-blurred-lines-of-copyright-law-robin-thicke-v-marvin-gayes-estate/
 
Apparently Thicke et. al. are requesting only "declaratory judgment" that is asking the judge to decide the fact of copying. If done in the right venue, and if the finding is in Thicke's favor, this might prevent Gaye family from pursuing an infringement case. On the other hand, it is not clear that if the judge decides that Thicke did infringe, there would necessarily be anything that could be interpreted as an infringement judgment against him, requiring Gaye family to initiate another suit to get compensation.
 
Why a judge would want to clutter up an already busy calendar with this type of pre-emptive strike is a mystery. If every potential infringement case must be preceded by a case brought by the potential defendant little is gained except to give the advantage to a rich defendant of forcing a poor claimant to come up with the cost of two trials. A wise judge would send Thicke packing and tell him to come back when he is actually a defendant in an infringement action.
 
As an added benefit to Thicke, copyright law would force him to pay Gaye family's legal costs if he lost. That is designed to give the poor victim of infringement some leverage against the theft of his property. In a case like this it is hard to see how that would apply, so Thicke is able to shift all of the substantial costs of presenting their case at trial onto Gaye family. If he wins, he pays only his own legal fees. If he loses, he has already determined the facts of the case and can just offer the settlement that was being requested in the first place.
post edited by slartabartfast - 2013/08/21 12:15:24
#32
Doc_Hollingsworth
Max Output Level: -52.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2289
  • Joined: 2008/03/02 22:25:01
  • Location: Boise, Idaho
  • Status: offline
Re: The creators of South Park had foreseen this... 2013/08/21 12:12:47 (permalink)
jbow
 

Thanks, that was what I was thinking. Also, has everyone forgotted Led Zeppelin... they flat out stole a lot of stuff and I don't remember any lawsuits or even any bad publicity.
I am pretty sure that most music has been written already, especially in the traditional blues, jazz, soul, RnR forms... I mean how many different ways can you play three chords? People need to lighten up. If the words are different and the music isn't sampled, it is a different song. I'm not saying that anyone should get away with producing a song named Today to the tune of Yesterday... there are the mega hits and then all the album tracks and I am pretty sure that no matter what you write there is a song somewhere that it will sound like.
Sampling someone elses chops and putting them in your song unauthorized is IMO way over the line though... however I don't think that happened here, right?
All musicians borrow and steal, always have... I thought everyone knew that.
 
J


Yeah but Zeppelin did manage to sue Kingdome Come for their hit Get It On, for infringement on Kashmir.....Though both songs are different tuning (Kashmir in DADGAD and Get It On in standard tuning). This when Page admittedly copped old blues standards. Strange Brew by Cream has it's basis in an old blues standard as well. But you didn't see anyone suing anyone. Thicke and and the Marvin Gaye camp need a good paddling agreed.

Doc
MacBook Pro 15.4 Retina (mid 2015)
Focusrite Clarett 8PreX & OctoPre
Logic Pro X 10.2.4/Reason 9.2/Pro Tools 12.7
Long haired dachshund - requisite studio dog (no short hairs need apply - read the sign)
 
#33
craigb
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 41704
  • Joined: 2009/01/28 23:13:04
  • Location: The Pacific Northwestshire
  • Status: offline
Re: The creators of South Park had foreseen this... 2013/08/21 14:39:41 (permalink)
Karyn
Every now and then even the best artists produce a pile of bollox,  even I in the past have penned more than 1 "masterpiece" that luckily never saw the light of day.
 
In fact,  most successful artists will have a virtual cutting room floor of all the ideas that should never have been dragged kicking and screaming into our universe.  And these piles of dross will continue to be created and discarded by the rich and famous.
 
 
Thus I intend filing a suit against a certain Mr. P. McCartney.  ref: one of the many failures I have written in the past V's 'Un-specified, as yet to be written and discarded idea' by the said Mr. McCartney.
He's rich, he writes all the time, there is a chance (however small) that one of his worst ideas may sound something similar (to a blind horse) to one of my past failures.
 
Just PAY UP NOW Mr. McCartney.    Stop living off the backs of all us failed musicians and GIVE ME THE MONEY.  You know it's best for both of us.



You won't win.  He's only partial to those who don't have a leg to stand on. 

 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
#34
Rain
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 9736
  • Joined: 2003/11/07 05:10:12
  • Location: Las Vegas
  • Status: offline
Re: The creators of South Park had foreseen this... 2013/08/21 17:01:26 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby mike_mccue 2013/08/21 17:05:32
jbow
Also, has everyone forgotted Led Zeppelin... they flat out stole a lot of stuff and I don't remember any lawsuits or even any bad publicity.
 



Funny you mention Zeppelin because this case reminded me of a story about them, which, in turns, made me consider this story in a different light. 
 
When Led Zeppelin wrote and recorded Boogie with Stu (Physical Graffiti), a song that was heavily inspired by Ritchie Valens Oh My Head, they gave Valens' mom 1/6th of the credits. 
 
According to Page: "What we tried to do was give Ritchie's mother credit, because we heard she never received any royalties from any of her son's hits, and Robert did lean on that lyric a bit. So what happens? They tried to sue us for all of the song!"
 
I still think that this was the correct thing to do - and that in an ideal world, they should have given credits every time they "borrowed" stuff.
 
I'm glad that Zeppelin borrowed from Valens (and imho, improved on his ideas) if that lead them to record that one track. I've always dug Boogie w/ Stu. OTOH, I don't really care much for Oh My Head. As a matter of fact, if you ask me, they've improved on pretty much everything they ever borrowed and integrated it into something much more substantial. 
 
It's pretty easy to start working on a song and realize halfway in that it sounds a bit like something else. And the more music you know, the more frequently you can make this type of observation. And then you'll have a friend listen to it and they'll pick up on an entirely different facet of it and tell you that your song reminds them of another song, which you hadn't really thought of. To an extent, everything sounds like something else - it's just a matter of finding what... But when it's that obvious, credit should be given.
 
I also know from experience that you can write a song that is surprisingly similar to something else w/o actually knowing that other song.
 
From there on it's a matter of personal ethics, whether you think that the song should be finished and published. Reading the biographies of a few prolific songwriters, I'd say that if artists refrained from publishing their songs when they're inspired by something else, a lot of our favorite songs wouldn't exist. It's actually surprising to find out how often hose songs were created by trying to emulate a very specific song by another artist.
 
Personally, if I realize that something I write sounds a bit like something else (which happens all the time) I ask myself if it has a redeeming factor. If the familiar part becomes a pretext for my own creativity, it can work out. If I realize that I'm just re-arranging other folks ideas, I trash it. Obviously, that's all very subjective. 
 
post edited by Rain - 2013/08/21 17:02:37

TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
#35
craigb
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 41704
  • Joined: 2009/01/28 23:13:04
  • Location: The Pacific Northwestshire
  • Status: offline
Re: The creators of South Park had foreseen this... 2013/08/21 19:06:20 (permalink)
Most of Led Zeppelin I was "borrowed."  Few seemed to care - lol!

 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
#36
soens
Max Output Level: -23.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5154
  • Joined: 2005/09/16 03:19:55
  • Location: Location: Location
  • Status: offline
Re: The creators of South Park had foreseen this... 2013/08/22 15:54:24 (permalink)
jbow
soens
Next apples will be suing oranges cauz they're a fruit.


Watermelons will be suing for slander because they are not called berrys and blackberries will sue because they are called berries. A watermeon is a berry and a blackberry is a multi podded fruit. It is Fruitist I tells ya. Fruitism is getting to be a real problem.
 



I'm surprised the vegetables haven't sued the tomato for masquerading as a vegetable yet...
 
They know it's really a fruit.
 
Too bad the V8 drink company doesn't. Not only do they think its a vegetable but they've banked a whole advertising campaign on it.
 
Then the prez sez pizza counts as a vegetable cuz it has tomato sauce.
 

 
The entire world should be sued cuz its all screwy!
post edited by soens - 2013/08/22 15:55:51
#37
Page: < 12 Showing page 2 of 2
Jump to:
© 2025 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1