The definitively BEST article out there on the Mastering Loudness Wars (recent too!)

thanks, I enjoyed this analysis:

"From today’s point of view, the hereabove Dire Straits material was recorded in 1985 very quiet - there is a lot of headroom (i.e. it could have been louder). There is an occassional transient that comes closer to 0dBFS, but overall the peaks are hitting -5 to -8dBFS or even lower, and there is a sufficient reserve for the dynamic range. The original pressing of this CD features one of the biggest dynamic sweeps ever seen in rock music: Brothers in Arms measure as much as -18dB in microdynamics (the CD layer of the recent SACD remaster is, contrary to a popular misconception, not that courageous as it stops around -8dB). The level of -0.3dBFS formerly was considered as the loudest signal that was safe to put on a CD, since some early CD processors would treat a 0dBFS sample as an error. Thus the average level of audio is pretty low, but if you turn it up, these CDs may sound excellent."

Interesting that they quoted Brothers In Arms.  I've always LOVED the sound of that disc.
 
 
After going through that article, even LOOKING at some of those waveforms made my ears hurt.

Excellent article.

I wish I hadn't got rid of a load of vinly back in the 80's, being convinced at the time that their availability on CD could only be a good thing.

While WE basically hate the new mastering brick wall, I believe that the majority of people don't even care....or notice.

When I think about history...people bought the hell out of vinyl, 8-tracks, cassettes, and CD's...and none of those sound the same.  All of them have audible problems.  And knowing that MOST people I knew never had a good - or even decent - stereo system....I realize that the quality of the playback was never as important as the song.

I'm not talking about audiophiles.  I'm talking about normal people.  The people who used to buy stuff...and still could if audio quality meant anything to them.  But these same people have chosen to get used to MP3 quality....because it's free everywhere on the internet, and it's easy to move, store, playback, share, etc.

I remember the first time I heard an MP3.  I was like...."Damn.  Now I get it.  It sounds pretty good, and you can find anything you want for free on Napster.  No wonder the labels are freaking out."  But I was really bothered by that high-end warble/smear.  MOST of my friends didn't notice the smear - or even care.

I've read opinions that claim "mastering" has been the reason for CD sales decline.  I just think that's a weak argument for a problem caused by signing and releasing crappy bands, with crappy songs that sound just like the last crappy band's last crappy song.  And then, charging too much for it.

Surely I'm not the only one who remembers, that right at the beginning of this whole sales slump, you couldn't touch a new CD in the stores for less than $20.

People didn't stop listening to the good songs with brickwall mastering.  They just stopped buying them.

I dunno...just thinking aloud.

skullsession


While WE basically hate the new mastering brick wall, I believe that the majority of people don't even care....or notice.

When I think about history...people bought the hell out of vinyl, 8-tracks, cassettes, and CD's...and none of those sound the same.  All of them have audible problems.  And knowing that MOST people I knew never had a good - or even decent - stereo system....I realize that the quality of the playback was never as important as the song.

I'm not talking about audiophiles.  I'm talking about normal people.  The people who used to buy stuff...and still could if audio quality meant anything to them.  But these same people have chosen to get used to MP3 quality....because it's free everywhere on the internet, and it's easy to move, store, playback, share, etc.

I remember the first time I heard an MP3.  I was like...."Damn.  Now I get it.  It sounds pretty good, and you can find anything you want for free on Napster.  No wonder the labels are freaking out."  But I was really bothered by that high-end warble/smear.  MOST of my friends didn't notice the smear - or even care.

I've read opinions that claim "mastering" has been the reason for CD sales decline.  I just think that's a weak argument for a problem caused by signing and releasing crappy bands, with crappy songs that sound just like the last crappy band's last crappy song.  And then, charging too much for it.

Surely I'm not the only one who remembers, that right at the beginning of this whole sales slump, you couldn't touch a new CD in the stores for less than $20.

People didn't stop listening to the good songs with brickwall mastering.  They just stopped buying them.

I dunno...just thinking aloud.

Exactly.  Brick wall limiting on an ipod IS the sound.  This is what the new generation of listeners associate with the good times they're having.  When I was a teen it was an 8 track on a van stereo.  At the time that sound defined what a good time was.

all i know is, all the 're-mastered' stuff i've bought in the last 10 years, sounds like crap.


just louder, not better.

i know how to work a volume knob.

skullsession


While WE basically hate the new mastering brick wall, I believe that the majority of people don't even care....or notice.

When I think about history...people bought the hell out of vinyl, 8-tracks, cassettes, and CD's...and none of those sound the same.  All of them have audible problems.  And knowing that MOST people I knew never had a good - or even decent - stereo system....I realize that the quality of the playback was never as important as the song.

I'm not talking about audiophiles.  I'm talking about normal people.  The people who used to buy stuff...and still could if audio quality meant anything to them.  But these same people have chosen to get used to MP3 quality....because it's free everywhere on the internet, and it's easy to move, store, playback, share, etc.

I remember the first time I heard an MP3.  I was like...."Damn.  Now I get it.  It sounds pretty good, and you can find anything you want for free on Napster.  No wonder the labels are freaking out."  But I was really bothered by that high-end warble/smear.  MOST of my friends didn't notice the smear - or even care.

I've read opinions that claim "mastering" has been the reason for CD sales decline.  I just think that's a weak argument for a problem caused by signing and releasing crappy bands, with crappy songs that sound just like the last crappy band's last crappy song.  And then, charging too much for it.

Surely I'm not the only one who remembers, that right at the beginning of this whole sales slump, you couldn't touch a new CD in the stores for less than $20.

People didn't stop listening to the good songs with brickwall mastering.  They just stopped buying them.

I dunno...just thinking aloud.

+1.
 
I so agree and the sad part is that the "people" get used to hearing things on little earphone buds which can hardly produce full rich sound anyway.   Just more numbing and dumbing of the world.
 
I don't mind if something is recorded/mastered really hot, I mind when it sounds bad though.
 

So many ( Especially Here ) do actually complain about the lack of Dynamics that our modern music is plagued with.  So much talk .. really ... In fact it seems like it has become fashionable (In the music production world) to talk about how overly compressed our music has become. It doesn't seem like many are doing anything about it, though. 

I believe I read somewhere that the Beatles decided to boost the volume of the Bass beyond the level that the engineers felt comfortable having recorded on Vinyl in fear of destroying phonographs?

BOOM BANG CRASH!

And THAT, my friends is why MASTERING was even a part of the process.

These cats were the technicians who made sure that the master being made for the phonographs was actually playable.  It wasn't to "fix your EQ" because it sounded BAD.  It was to ensure that, among other things, the needle would stay in the groove - and the songs played in the correct order.  Remember now...the songs weren't necessarily recorded in order on the master tapes, and sometimes these guys were sequencing albums from 10 different reels of tape.  It WAS quite a process BACK THEN.  But now, we just cut and paste, point and click, pop in a CDR....done deal.

I realize the "conventional wisdom" these days is to send your stuff out to another guy to master.  I call bullsh*t on that most of the time.  (No...I'm not saying that you suck if you use an outside mastering engineer.  What I AM saying is that a great mastering engineer won't make my crappy mixes sound great.  Period.  He can't.)  That's MY JOB to make it sound great.  I don't stop mixing at a certain point and expect it to get better at a mastering house.

I contend the following, and of course, these are all just opinions:
If I know what I want it to sound like, and it sounds the way that I want it to sound - AND I have all the tools at my disposal to properly sequence and format a disc that the production house can use....WHY do I need the extra guy to come in and smash the crap out of it and jack up the gain?

Again...just my opinions.  I could be wrong.

I agree with what Skullsesions said, non audiophile people don't know what's happening to our music. BUT, show these people the difference, and they notice. A good friend of mine, he knows absolutely nothing about music. He pretty much doesn't even know what the bass guitar is. I tell him, "can you hear the electric guitar in this song here", when it is the only thing playing, and he just says "I can hear some music? Are there drums playing too? I don't know." Now, show him that youtube video of the death magnetic comparison, and he sure as hell notices: "wow, it sounds all distorted and flat and how no power to it. It just sounds like noise and not even music." This is coming from the guy who doesn't know a thing about music. My point: they will realise what is happening to our music if you SHOW them directly.

But make them listen to death magnetic album one day, then the guitar hero one another day, and the results may vary... But who knows, maybe I should do a test and see?

Turn-me-up versions would be fantastic though. You have your squashed one for the car and ipod, then the turn-me-up versions if you actually want to listen to your music. But then again, do people really even listen to music these days? Usually music seems to just be played to fill the silence...

Oh and remember that often, we should not be blaming the mastering engineer. The producer, the label and the band a probably some of the biggest pushers for the loudness wars. If the mastering engineer says "no, I'm not ruining your music like that", they'll say "fine, I'll go get someone who will." And remember that mastering is more than just dealing with individual songs, it's about making an album - ordering the songs (if not already been organised by the producer or band) and more importantly, matching them in frequency content and loudness so it sounds like the same album. And there are plenty more little things that go on that we don't often realise. Lets say song A ends very loudly and abruptly. Song B is a very slow quiet song. Aside from changing the song order, then mastering engineer might choose to bring up the initial volume of song B so it doesn't sound ultra quiet in comparison to song A. But if song A had a very slow and quiet ending, then the start of song B might be just fine at the level it is already at. So just remember, there is a lot more to mastering than just making a song louder. But of course the argument to that is, we don't listen to albums anymore, only songs on shuffle, so all that work goes to waste!

Just my ramble...

mattplaysguitar


I agree with what Skullsesions said, non audiophile people don't know what's happening to our music. BUT, show these people the difference, and they notice. A good friend of mine, he knows absolutely nothing about music. He pretty much doesn't even know what the bass guitar is. I tell him, "can you hear the electric guitar in this song here", when it is the only thing playing, and he just says "I can hear some music? Are there drums playing too? I don't know." Now, show him that youtube video of the death magnetic comparison, and he sure as hell notices: "wow, it sounds all distorted and flat and how no power to it. It just sounds like noise and not even music." This is coming from the guy who doesn't know a thing about music. My point: they will realise what is happening to our music if you SHOW them directly. 
 
 
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I couldn't agree more... I have a friend who has a pretty good ear for music but is used to listening to todays mp3 compressed music...  I played him a mixed and mastered wav file of one of my composistions and then an mp3. I pointed out the artifacts in the high end and explained to him what he was hearing. From that point on, he now is able to hear and recognize the poor quality of audible artifacts in low res mp3s.... I think he hates me now :-)