The evolution of a tune

I usually start with the kick and bass..   but I never have an idea of how, "a melody is going to come together."  However, even though the way I mix, is in a constant state of evolution, I do have:  A comp I use on my bass, and EQ I use on my hats, a reverb I like for my kick/clap..   I seem to do a lot of things, "the same way."  I never use, "the same settings, or presets," but I use, "the same lock and key," of plugins on certain sounds...  IMHO, this defines my productions..  I don't consider it a bad thing..  I hope that makes sense...

Cheers

I hear the tune in my head usually or at least the groove.... but like you said.... the end product is often not exactly the same thing that was in my head. Sometimes it even comes close. 

Although that is not a bad thing. I am normally fairly satisfied with the result. 


Maybe one reason is that what I hear, I don't have the chops needed to translate it accurately. 

 I wonder if folks like Steve Vai and Carlos Santana and Herbie Hancock have that same problem..... just on a different level? 

I write the hook first, I work from a template that's tweaked as close to perfection as I can get so I never have to break off from the creative process into messing with some preset or tweaking something to be "just right" and running out of juice before I get the important stuff down.

Then all I need to do is write the stuff that leads up to it and away from it, I have an anchor to build the rest from, but I know what the important part is going to be, and I don't need to compose blindly hoping everything is going to turn out good in the end, I keep it simple until the main song structure is down, then flesh it out.

If the main hook is not working the first day right of the bat, usually that means it's not strong enough and it frequently goes into the pile of "meh" that builds up somewhere on my HDs that I never delete but never use anyway, so I don't know why I keep it, sorta like my grandma that used to collect plastic containers that she never used but wouldn't throw out

I guess our technology has a lot to answer for. We can pretty much change our minds as often as we like these days, without having to worry about studio time or tape wearing out etc. 

craigb


My approach seems to be:

1)  Start with a beginning idea
2)  Search for a patch to use that idea on
3)  Find 1,428,239 other patches and play around with at least half of them
4)  Haven't gotten this far yet...

Sometimes finding a patch is the best part of all. I'll sit for two hours going through 1000 patches, and writing a short list on paper, then whittling that short list down again, then seeing which of those sounds would sound even better with some parameter tweaking....such fun. I love the feeling when a new sound completely revolutionizes the whole track. 

And then of course you can play with the pitch of parts. Sometimes I'll be having trouble making a synth part sit in the mix with a sound that I otherwise love, but then I move the Key slider in the inspector up or down 12 semitones and hey presto, instant mix fix!

craigb


Heh, yeah, until you get to tweaking later and realize that the patch you spent so much time trying to find no longer is the perfect match for the track and the search starts all over again!

(Plus I'm a sucker for playing with those presets that are so over-the-top that you'd never really use them in a mix, but they sure are fun!  "Film Drama" on my Korg N5 comes to mind as well as a bunch from my MS-2000...)

Photone, the Reaktor synth, is great for that. 

Bristol_Jonesey


I rarely have a complete song in my head.

I can be pretty good at coming with a riff or a chord sequence, even a melody and putting them together (call it a verse for sake of simplicity)and coming up with somewhere different to go, either via a chord change,  rhythmic change or even both sometimes (again, call it a chorus if you like) is usually straight forward

But where I struggle is trying from that point to get back to where I was.

Oh to have back all of the awesome riffs and 4-bar segments of guitar that I have come up with over the years, vowed to develop the next day, then promptly forgotten. 

Have tried that! The trouble is:

1) I'm often too lazy to stop and hit record
2) Sometimes I will listen to it the next day and thing "now how in the hell did I play that?" Especially if it's some kind of intricate fingerpicking part. 

sharke


Have tried that! The trouble is:

1) I'm often too lazy to stop and hit record
2) Sometimes I will listen to it the next day and thing "now how in the hell did I play that?" Especially if it's some kind of intricate fingerpicking part. 

Re: 2),


Now we have Melodyne with DNA and you could figue out that intricate singerpicking part.


HTH.

bapu

sharke


Have tried that! The trouble is:

1) I'm often too lazy to stop and hit record
2) Sometimes I will listen to it the next day and thing "now how in the hell did I play that?" Especially if it's some kind of intricate fingerpicking part. 

Re: 2),


Now we have Melodyne with DNA and you could figue out that intricate singerpicking part.


HTH.

I've got a short piece of triple tracked acoustic guitar that I recorded years ago on my old Fostex 8 track and to this day, I cannot separate the 3 parts into individual tracks - I just don't know what I did. (the Fostex is long gone, all I have is the stereo mixdown)

Heh, I've got one of those little recorders too.  Ever hear of Sony Mini-discs?  Yet another technology that didn't catch on...  Oh well, I used mine for PhD work and it's still usable (plus I've got a few blank discs that I can use).  I'll have to get it out so I SEE it laying there, then maybe I'll remember to use it!

Hi,
 
This will likely throw a wrench into these ideas here ... but mine is poetry, and not quite music, though I can do some really goof Fripp'isms with the instruments I have and create words off the visuals and feelings while doing it!
 
All in all, I NEVER, go into it, with any ideas ... because, I might have a different feeling while doing it, and that means that your attention is now divided. Generally I start writing the minute the movie starts, and this accounts for my being able to write at work, at home, and what not ... it's the same person!
 
That said, there are times when the "visual" is continuing on, and you have to stay on it as far as possible ... the kind of things, that has a way of making it sound like, these ideas can not be used in music ... because too much of it is "self-conscious", and thus, any experimental process that works on getting rid of that idealistic process, is not likely to get a good reception with folks that only know and understand popular music ... and its derivatives.
 
Honestly? ... there was a mystic, that suggested that the minute you "find it" ... trash it! And you will be rewarded ten fold! In general, this only makes sense if you accept the reality that ... you are here and now and at this moment ... and an idea or previous theme is not (necessarily) here and now. When it came up, was the time for you to be there, not later or after, so you could explore the "moment", which would have given you a better idea of how to go along with it ... but if all you can look for in these areas, is another note, another sound, another this or that ... I doubt that you will ever be happy with your own work, and always think that you can do better than the last time.
 
This is one of the reasons, why I enjoy Peter Hammill so much ... it's about "now" and "this moment" ... and then it's over and the next album is totally different!
 
To "find" more moments, that help you find new things and musics, you have to "undo" the boxes and any learning ... so you can feel it through and through ... the rest is easy ... you already have the mechanics for it, and if you record it, you can always come back to it and correct the smaller details ... but I seriously doubt that it will change things in a major way.
 
This has been my experience in writing, directing and with actors. Musicians, generally speaking, have been the tougher group to work with!

Crg


The moment of conception and the moment of completion are only tied together by a train of thought. No two trains of thought will ever be alike because they happen at different times. This means nothing as it is a part of reality that you will tune out while you're thinking about your composition. It can start with a spark, a note, a word, etc., but it will complete as a concept, an idea, a statement, an emanation of force and spirit-energy-sound-music. 

Perfect ... and a train of thought that YOU created!
 
One of my favorites was always Jean-Luc Godard ... everything has a beginning, middle and an end ... not necessarily in that order! Or ... I don't want to make a film about politics ... I want to make a political film!
 
All in all, his point really is ... you can't be on the outside looking in! ... you have to immerse yourself in that inside ... and the notes and the feeling and the perfection will be there!

Philip


happy accidents
loving collabs
sketch development
song creation --> arrangement
genre inclinations
familiar artist emulation

performance vs. sample experimentation
re-writes: Lyrics + beatz + melodies
vocal and instrument deliver
music theory
etc etc etc

Then there seem the 'real-life' evolving forces like, I dunno:

heart-brake
romance
caffeine and/or drugs
other arts, sorceries,

adventure --> song emotives
encouragements and/or feedback
intuition
shrewdness and logic

lust, pride, ego, and/or libido
lover, deity, faith, metaphysical awareness, etc.

sensual and/or spiritual appetites 

Nice song, what's it called?

If it's an original I'm working on, anything goes really. I did a song once, and by the end of it, the only thing that was original to the idea I had was the opening line of the vocals, and the guitar lead at 2:30. That lead was originally 35 or so seconds at the beginning. I had it completed a couple times and kept getting idea's for it and the song molded itself around the original opening lyrics and original lead.

Here's the tune.

I kept adding to it, taking away, changing things.

When I started the song, I had a really bad cold. If you listen real close to the opening lyrics you can hear it. That's what prompted me to use those effects on the vocals, to kind of hide my cold. It's not like I had to carry a tune, ya know ... it's a rap song. It sounded good, so I used it through the whole song.

There's a lot of loops in it IIRC. It's been a while. But, I made all the loops with Sonar. I made loops out of the rhythm guitar, then played along live to give it a live feel. Same with the drums I think. Some are loops I made, then I used my Alesis SR-15 to play along live.