The future of off the shelf laptops?

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Owen
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2011/04/20 11:20:19 (permalink)

The future of off the shelf laptops?

Does anyone see any trend for the manufacturers to fix the dpc and rice crispy (snap crackle and pop) issues that are currently causing problems in laptops? Is SandyBridge or any other up and coming thing gonna make a diference?
 
Some of us would like to be able to use a laptop, have no plans to run 100 tracks or use firewire and have to budget.
 
Should I wait awhile for the manufacturers to get it together or might I end up just hitting the PC stores with dpc checker on a flash drive?
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    Beagle
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    Re:The future of off the shelf laptops? 2011/04/20 11:28:18 (permalink)
    unfortunately the AUDIO and VIDEO market is such a small niche market compared to all sales.  so they don't care much about us.  that's why PC makers like Scott from ADK and Jim from StudioCat are best for our needs for laptops.

    I'd recommend contacting one of them.

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
    i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
    Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
    #2
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re:The future of off the shelf laptops? 2011/04/20 12:29:26 (permalink)

    Does anyone see any trend for the manufacturers to fix the dpc and rice crispy (snap crackle and pop) issues that are currently causing problems in laptops? Is SandyBridge or any other up and coming thing gonna make a diference?

     
    The issue with laptops is that the average user's priorities are *significantly* (and diametrically) opposed to ours.
    The average laptop user wants/needs long battery life... and they'll never notice a 1-3ms hiccup in data flow (high DPC latency).  They're willing to sacrifice ultimate performance... for greater convenience.
    Now, factor in the small form factor... and heat management... 
    Performance compromises have to be made to keep heat in check (or you deal with what sounds like a turbo prop).
    Surfing the internet, downloading Email, running Office apps, etc... you'd likely never notice the performance compromises.
     
    As a DAW user, if you plan to work with significant loads (especially at low latency settings), you need ultimate performance.  A 1-3ms hiccup in data flow can cause pops/ticks/dropouts.
    Highest performance generally involves more heat.  That has to be disipated without major sacrafice to performance... and without too much noise.  To be fair, it's a delicate/complicated balance of all facets.
     
    As Beagle mentioned, we're a tiny segment of niche users...
    I wouldn't expect the current trend to change.  The market is driven by the masses.
     
    Personally, I grew tired of the limitations/constrictions of laptops.
    I built a mATX cube... then moved to a custom mini-ITX machine (roughly a 10" cube).
    Paired with a small monitor and mini wireless keyboard/glidepoint, it's a little more cartage than a laptop... but not much.  The positive side is that you have complete control over what goes in the machine.
    Make the right choices... and you have performance equal to a desktop.
    If a part fails, it's easy to replace.

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #3
    Fearful Symmetry
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    Re:The future of off the shelf laptops? 2011/04/20 13:36:12 (permalink)
    Jim. What's the weight of the mini-ITX and how many drives can you physically fit in. Three?
    Cheers
    FS
    #4
    Owen
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    Re:The future of off the shelf laptops? 2011/04/20 15:32:21 (permalink)
    can these mATX cube and custom mini-ITXs be purchased or do they need built? What is the cost outlay? Can it be done by a novice?
    #5
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re:The future of off the shelf laptops? 2011/04/20 15:42:42 (permalink)
    Jim. What's the weight of the mini-ITX and how many drives can you physically fit in. Three? Cheers

     
    It's going to depend on the exact case/parts... but my mini-ITX machine weighs a little over 10-pounds (including the 300w PS).
     
    Yes, you can have three internal drives.

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #6
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re:The future of off the shelf laptops? 2011/04/20 16:11:31 (permalink)
    can these mATX cube and custom mini-ITXs be purchased or do they need built? What is the cost outlay? Can it be done by a novice?

     
    You'll have to build (or have built) a custom small form factor machine.
    Motherboard and case (thermal reasons) choice are particularly important... as is the power-supply. 
    Make good choices... and you'll be fine.
    The tolerances with small form-factor (especially mini-ITX) are *tight*.
    Sometimes its necessary to make slight "modifications" to make things fit/work. 
     
    If you're ever in the Columbus area, you're welcome to checkout my live rig.
    I'll be playing a small club (Spanky's) this Friday night.
     
    Cost depends on what you install.
    For about the cost of the upper end HP/Dell laptops, you can have a decked out mini-ITX machine that blows most laptops completely out of the water.
    ie:  I can load up any type of complex split/layer (Kontakt 4, Omnisphere, etc)... play it completely glitch-free at a 48-sample ASIO buffer size... and never worry about polyphony, glitches, instability, etc.
    The whole lot (mini-ITX, small monitor, mini wireless keyboard, RME Babyface, cables, sustain and expression pedals, and my lead-sheets) fits into a single 16x16x12 padded/rolling case.

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #7
    Owen
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    Re:The future of off the shelf laptops? 2011/04/20 16:17:33 (permalink)
    Columbus Ohio? I hadn't realized you were that close.
    Do you have any pics of you rig?
    #8
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re:The future of off the shelf laptops? 2011/04/20 16:26:37 (permalink)
    Do you have any pics of you rig?

     
    I'll take some pics when I program Friday's set-list (tonight/tomorrow)

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #9
    Fearful Symmetry
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    Re:The future of off the shelf laptops? 2011/04/20 17:06:43 (permalink)
    Owen
    Columbus Ohio? I hadn't realized you were that close.
    Do you have any pics of you rig?

    Bit further for me :-)
    But I'll be there in spirit.
    FS



    #10
    jbow
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    Re:The future of off the shelf laptops? 2011/04/20 17:59:04 (permalink)
    I use an HP dm4-1165dx notebook. When I run DPC latency checker on it I get results around 100, sometimes in the 90s sometimes arund 125 but it has never gotten out of the "green" even the occasional hic doesn't go to high. I've tried it with noting connected and I've tried it with a midi keyboard and a Line6 UX-2 connected at the same time by USB and it is still in the low 100s.
    I expect when I get the RME Babyface and run 24/96 I will never have a latency problem.
    This particular model is an i5 with a 7200 RPM hard drive. They seem to have put it together right. I have it set for "best performance" and I did not suspend Norton nor take it offline when testing... I will when recording thoug, just to be safe... but I really do not anticipate any problems but if I have any problems I will not hesitate to contact Studiocat and talk to Jim about a desktop computer. I have a desktop running XP but it is a Pentium 4 @ 2.8 and I have a Dell 5150 that is running XP and is maxed out at 1G of RAM... so this computer is performing exceptionally well IMO. I don't know if other laptops do as well. The model above this one had a slightly faster i5 chip and a larger HD (this one is 500 the "better" one was 750) but the HD on the more expensive, better model was a 5200 RPM HD. I almost missed that.
    In any case, so far, I am very pleased with this computer but I am still learning and setting up and circumstances have not allowed me to get into recording anything more than some test tracks.
    I bought a pair of KRK Rokit-8 monitors and mopads... on the to buy list is a 1920x1200 monitor and a Babyface, ten maybe a Cakewalk A-800 keyboard... I am sure there will always be something new to buy.
    Actually, I have been able to run an M-audio O2 keyboard and a Line6 UX-2 with no problems. I can get the latency down to 3 or 4 on the O2 with no dropouts. that is IIRC 88 samples and something a little under 125 samples on 4. It will set to 1 millisecond latency but it will not work. I can set it to 2 ms and it will work with a few pops, 3 seems ok but I set it to 4 just to be sure. I do not know what the RTL is though... and I am not worried because I am going to buy the RME soon and I have confidence that all will be well.
    Take a look at this model. I like it.
    I think everyone should have a decent W7 64bit laptop and a desktop too. Recording with some tracks frozen in a big project and with a good interface should resolve any recording problems with a good modern laptop (I think) and perhaps the same with editing but mixing a big project with everything running will probably take a more powerful desktop.

    NOW... if I have made some incorrect assumptions (I am a long time newbie, finally taking the time to get around the learning curve) someone please correct me.. but so far this laptop is wonderful.

    Julien

    Sonar Platinum
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    MIDI keyboards...
    Control Pad
    mics. 
    I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
    #11
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