The good old "Loud click / peaking VU meters / DC output / horrible noise" problem...

Hi all,
 
I justed wanted to check with the unlucky few who suffered from the "loud click & DC output" issue that have plagued some of us. Do you still experience the problem? I do indeed and while I was able to get by in previous projects by just cycling either the engine or the FX button until Sonar worked fine again, that´s not working with the current project so I need to find a solution. I´ve contacted support about this, let´s see what they can do about it.
 
 
Some detailed information about my problem:
 
Quite often when I play a project, there´s a loud CLICK and then silence. The project keeps playing and the CPU meters look normal but no sound is being output. However, when this occurs, the VU meters on the master bus of Sonar is constantly peaking and the relevant meters in RME TotalFX do the same.

If I click "stop" and try to play the project again, the problem sometimes goes away. However, often stopping does not help and I have to restart Sonar or do something hardware-related such as changing ASIO buffer in order to get the sound working again but these fixes are always temporary.

This problem is more likely to occur in a crowded project with lot´s of plugins though it might happen in lighter projects as well. Typical plugins that would trigger this issue is Melodyne, Vocoders and sometimes ProChannel plugins. However, removing/disabling these plugins without restarting Sonar does not make the problem go away.


Observations:

* I have had it on two different computers, Win7 AMD 965 BE and Win10 64bit Xeon E3-1270 HP Z210 (both clean installs).
* I have experienced the problem on both a RME Babyface and a cheap $5 USB audio interface.
* If I play audio from outside Sonar when I´m having this issue, the audio is audible but severly distorted. If I disable the Sonar engine, audio outside Sonar is working fine.
* The problem is very random.
* It seems to happen regardless of which project I´m working on though the problem does happen more often on heavier projects.
* ASIO / WDM / WASAPI does not make a difference
* Audio buffer size does not make a difference
* If I export audio during this condition, the exported mp3 will contain nothing but DC.
* I have tried different USB ports & cables.
* All CPU / USB power management features / throttling are disabled.
* I have tried disabling/enabling CPU hyperthread / turbo.
* All drivers are updated to latest versions
* Disabling GPU did not improve anything.

What to do? I´m getting desperate as this is really blocking my workflow.
 
Hardware specifications:
HP Z210 Workstation, Xeon E3-1270, 16GB, Samsung 850 EVO SSD, Quadro 2000 GPU
 
 
Screenshot:

I'm seeing something very close to this when using some Kontakt instruments.
 
New blank project, add Kontakt 5.6.1 with one midi track and one output track.  Load a short MIDI loop (doesn't matter what) and turn it into a groove clip and fill a few bars worth and set the project to loop on that.   Inside Kontakt load one of the newer Sample Logic instruments.  I've reproduce it with Morphestra 2, Cinemorphx, and Cinematic Guitars Organic Atmospheres.  Any of the "new style" Sample Logic instruments (older ones don't seem to have this problem).  Inside the instrument use its native preset browser and select the first preset.  Start SONAR's transport and have it play the loop you made/loaded in.  Then using the next patch arrow in the Sample Logic preset window to switch through the presets while the MIDI loop plays.  At some point SONAR makes a loud clicking/pop sound.  The output on the Kontakt instrument channel becomes pegged.  The output on the Master channel becomes pegged.  Inside Kontakt its meter shows nothing is playing.  The MIDI track keeps playing but no new notes are played and there is no more output. 
 
I have the 64-bit Double Precision Engine off.  I've tried all the multi-threading options (in both SONAR and Kontakt).  It reproduces very easily for me at the same patch/preset every time if I use the same MIDI clip.  If I make up something new, the preset it freaks out on changes but it still happens sooner or later.  If I jump to that preset (and not go through the ones just before it) everything works fine.  Sometimes using Kontakt's reset button helps, but not always.  This doesn't reproduce in Reaper, it appears to be a SONAR thing.  Though it certainly could be Kontakt's fault.
 
If I have T-Racks Bus Compressor on the master output when this happens SONAR crashes inside the T-Racks plugin (it doesn't like the weird fully pegged DC audio I guess).  Without the plugin there is no crash.  SONAR acts just like lv455 describes though when I don't have the bus compressor on the master output.  At first I thought this was a T-Racks bug, but I'm not so sure now give what it does with just plain Kontakt and nothing else.
 
I'm running SONAR 22.9.2 Build 42 (2016.09) on Win 7-64 bit with Kontakt 5.6.1(R48).  I don't believe this is actually a Kontakt or T-Racks problem though, those are just the easiest way for me to reproduce the problem.  I tried a lot of different Kontakt instruments but only could get it to happen easily/quickly with the Sample Logic ones.
 
Sadly I haven't found any work around or ways to avoid this, yet.

My reproducible case uses no audio effect plugins.  I start with a completely blank project.  So I'm pretty sure it's not (directly) a audio effect plugin causing this.  Last night while writing the above message I reproduced this a few times and on one attempt got the garbled white-noise constantly increasing in volume effect.  I had to turn off SONARs audio engine to stop it -- usually it just pegs the VU meter but other than the inital pop doesn't make any noise.  I hadn't seen this bug before the 2016.09 release, not sure if rolling back is worth the work though.   Given how tricky this is to reproduce I have no hope it will be fixed anytime soon.

lv455
* If I play audio from outside Sonar when I´m having this issue, the audio is audible but severly distorted. If I disable the Sonar engine, audio outside Sonar is working fine.

This is a really interesting observation. I get this too (along with everything else you mention).
However, if I enable "Share drivers with other programs", the audio outside Sonar sounds OK while Sonar has this issue.
 
What does this tell us about the problem?
 
Cheers, Peter.

It tells me OS management has corrupted ,or is tying things oddly together, causing the glitches...and IRQ and or interuptions of cpu and or Data transmittion is being hogged by unknown services running at times of heavy use, or exclusive use of resources.
 
I had cpu issues back in the day...Just open up sonar..and load nothing, do nothing..and watch the cpu metering and drive meters...for a bit of time..mostly a 20min run of nothing being done or more.
 
Is this showing usage beyond reason?...if the cpu meter suddenly spikes into the red?...can you capture a screenshot? save of ..and get the clocked time, and go into event viewer and read out what may be logged,and seek out what causes?.....i believe I did try to do this with MS tech support , costing a yearly payment plan to get someone who would...Yet each remote viewing viewer trying to resolve, would not go into event viewer at all...(until forced by me saying) He did nothing but sell me windows 8.1 to solve, which did nothing to solve for.....
 
Seek out the time in the screen shots, when this occurs, in event viewer, and make logs and or screen shots of what is running when these events occur...if possible.?.
 
Got to be quick...Got stay focused...but I did do...in a old posting.
 
So, is this routed to the Wonderful Sonar and bad code of theirs?....No, I do not believe it is.
I believe it is the OS running apps or services causing the glitches....and or auto updates checking constantly for ...and or data tranmittion and receiving of...when you or the users are working on, or in a project, that wants full control of resources...yet something is running causing loss of.
 
Any hoot...read some of the other postings on oddity of audio hickups and bad noise from high ended audio external devices...
It is not uncommon...as it is being witnessed by some more and more.
 
And jumping back to older iso or version does not solve for.
 
So, tied up, bound down to troubles, and system under arrest?..and now resolution?....
 
Turn it off...pick up a instrument, and play !..Go out side, and sow seeds...be as good as good can be...be free from the troubles....And walk in the land of the living!...smile...and say...Life is good or very Good when doing the service in the Garden with a song well played for free, with the good intent for the living things all around waiting for you to do that good service!...and if you make a bad note, You know you can correct it with practice, and be forgiven the wasted time, not doing any, under idol control!
 
 
Regards!...and best wishes.
 
Sir Les
 
 
 
 

Today, things worked amazingly well. I could work a couple of minutes with a particular project that´s usually haunted. After dropping the latency a bit and added a Melodyne region fx instance, the audio was replaced by the click. I check the event viewer it but didn´t find anything useful.
 
In the current project, the cpu load meters rarely move above 30% and never over 50%. When things are working fine, I can go down to 128bytes of audio buffer without any problems while the same project might give me the click issue even at a 2048 byte buffer.'
 
Another observation that probably makes the phenomena harder to pinpoint is that even if the probability of getting the problem (at least for me) seems to increase by the number of plugins I add, removing the plugins after getting the problem does NOT make things go back to normal.
 
Since I´ve seen this on two computers (Overclocked AMD 965BE & stock Xeon E3-1270), two OS´s (Win7 & Win10) , three audio adapters (Delta Audiophile 2496 PCI, RME Babyface & cheapo USB-adapter) & Sonar versions through X1 to current PLatinum, I´m having a hard time finding out what all these setups have in common, though there are some background services I´ve been using for many years.
While I have disabled them, I don´t know for sure if I really rebooted properly after doing so.

Some plugins and softsynths I use in most projects:
* Absynth
* Fabfilter Twin2
* FM8
* Massive
* Kick
* Kontakt
* Battery 3
* VAZ Modular
 
* Prochannel EQ
* Channel tools
* Melodyne
* Sonitus MOdulator
* Sonitus Compressor
* Sonitus Reverb
* Sonitus delay
* Ohmicide
 
My next step will be to uninstall/completely disable all background services & have another go.
 

I haven´t had any CPU spikes so far, and when the problem is present Sonar seems to be running perfectly fine in terms of CPU load and screen updates. Only audio & VU meters would be affected. Unfortunately, nothing was to be found in the event viewer either.
 

Sir Les
It tells me OS management has corrupted ,or is tying things oddly together, causing the glitches...and IRQ and or interuptions of cpu and or Data transmittion is being hogged by unknown services running at times of heavy use, or exclusive use of resources.
 
I had cpu issues back in the day...Just open up sonar..and load nothing, do nothing..and watch the cpu metering and drive meters...for a bit of time..mostly a 20min run of nothing being done or more.
 
Is this showing usage beyond reason?...if the cpu meter suddenly spikes into the red?...can you capture a screenshot? save of ..and get the clocked time, and go into event viewer and read out what may be logged,and seek out what causes?.....i believe I did try to do this with MS tech support , costing a yearly payment plan to get someone who would...Yet each remote viewing viewer trying to resolve, would not go into event viewer at all...(until forced by me saying) He did nothing but sell me windows 8.1 to solve, which did nothing to solve for.....
 

I disabled some background services and started Sonar after reboot: Teamviewer, Bitdefender & Dropbox. I could work approximately 10 minutes until the click thing happened so no luck there.
 

OK, I've got it happening with ALL tracks muted or archived except the Master bus. Output is set to none, so that should eliminate anything to do with audio drivers. Note the stats section of SPAN (which is on the Master bus prior to Ozone). The RMS display is corrupted (1.$), the peak values are -Inf, as are the max crest factors. The spectrum display is all green, meaning it's maxed out. I can change "Share drivers with other programs" without changing this, although if it is ticked, external audio files play without sounding garbled. Otherwise they do. What is going on here? I know others have occasionally had this problem (including Craig Anderton), but a few of us seem to suffer badly. 

This happens for me too. It occurs when I close a project and open another one. Not every time, just occasionally. There is usually a blurting sound at some point during the project launch, but not particularly loud. Once the project is open, some of the meters, including the master bus, display full volume, although completely silent. Closing the project and reopening always cures it.

With my previous interface (Line6 UX2), the behaviour was slightly different. It normally occurred in the middle of editing a project rather than launching. Full-volume meters again, but this time indicating a dreadful whining sound. A re-boot was the only way to cure it.

I don't remember it ever happening in pre-X versions of Sonar. I believe it started for me in X2.

I´m thinking in the same lines. It seems that some particular plugins are more likely to cause the problems than others but it´s still down to probabilities, ie some days are better than others.
 

I also think that once the problem has occured, removing plugins or disabling channels is not enough to make it go away. Once the problem is there, a Sonar restart at least is necessary to go back to normal conditions.
 
I might add that cycling the FX button previously would give a temporary fix but not in my current project. In other words, disabling all effects does no longer have an effect on the problem.
 
Is there some debugging software that might help finding the problem? Could we make some kind of "crash dump" without the crash to give Cakewalk something to work with?
 
If I get time this weekend, I will go through my previous projects which had this problem (all, I´m afraid) and list the plugins used, as well as the number of instances.
 
 

PeterMc
A bit more information on this "wicked" problem:
 
I can turn off every FX bin in the project (ignoring archived tracks) and the problem persists.
Every time I turn off an FX bin there is a click noise (but no audio) whether it contains an effect or not.
Hitting the "Bypass all audio effects" button, however, restores audio.
 
I am now guessing that there is some weirdness about how plugins connect to the FX bin. I don't think it is a particular plugin because a number of us have problems with different plugins.
 
Curly question: why does this seem to affect only a few of us?
 
How do we make progress on this issue? Is it possible to instrument the FX section of code to try and narrow this down (like adding asserts when an Inf is detected)?

 

Will do this evening!
 

PeterMc
Try turning on the Master bus Prochannel compressor. This might trigger a crash and dump.
 

Ok, I opened my current project and got the click thing by adding a melodyne instances. However, none of the tracks or buses inside Sonar had peaking VU meters, only the devices in the RME mixer were peaking. Apart from this, the same old problem. I added some master compressors in the Prochannels of the main buses but nothing happened. Will try again with another project.

That's not the case for me.  There are no audio plugins here, I even stripped the ProChannels on both audio tracks to just the EQ (which can't be deleted).  You can see how the VU meter is pegged but Kontakt is making no audio.  When this happens the MIDI track continues to move/send but no new audio comes out of Kontakt and the two audio tracks (Kontakt and the Master channel) both stay pegged.  This is with the early release of 2016.10