Helpful ReplyThe standard studio monitor placement, is it correct?

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Mosvalve
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2016/03/17 16:50:46 (permalink)

The standard studio monitor placement, is it correct?

I wasn't sure were to post this. Moderators please put this threat where it should go.
 
I was sitting at my desk pondering re-arranging things and I got to thinking about how I placed my monitors. I placed them on their side and realized I put them in a triangle sweet spot position with the woofers facing my ears at ear level so the high frequencies are passing by the sides of my head.
The standard seems to be if you place your monitors in the vertical triangle sweet spot position the tweeters should be facing your ears at ear level. This means the bass frequencies are hitting your shoulder or thereabouts. If you place your monitors sideways in the triangle sweet spot position the tweeter should be facing your ears at ear level. This means the bass frequencies are hitting your face or each other in a criss cross manor.
I can understand the vertical position but not the sideways position. There can't be anything good having the bass frequencies smashing into each other. I would think placing the tweeters on the inside facing your ears at ear level would make more sense where the bass frequencies are passing on either side of your head which is the opposite of how mine are setup now. Since I'll be re-arranging I thought I'd ask about proper placement.
 

BobV 
 
 
 
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eph221
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Re: The standard studio monitor placement, is it correct? 2016/03/17 16:54:07 (permalink)
Funny I just read about this in either Sound on Sound, or a lynda video.  They said to avoid speakers on their side if you can because of the very reason you pointed out.  They said they see it in a lot of studios, but it's basically a nono.
 
 
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bitflipper
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Re: The standard studio monitor placement, is it correct? 2016/03/17 16:58:01 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby joel77 2016/03/18 12:41:21
First of all, I think folks fret too much about such things. You'll train your ears to whatever way the speakers are situated and oriented. 
 
That said, I prefer to have the tweeters at ear-level rather than having woofers aimed at them, simply because high frequencies are more directional and it's they that determine the "sweet spot". Low frequencies radiate outward in all directions, which is why you can put a subwoofer pretty much anywhere in the room. (Actually, you place them where resonances are least-problematic, but that might be anywhere in the room.)
 


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bitflipper
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Re: The standard studio monitor placement, is it correct? 2016/03/17 16:59:47 (permalink)
Ha ha, new laptop...getting used to its touchpad, which seems to be calibrated for feather-light touch! Stuff's popping up all over the screen because merely placing my palm near the thing causes a click/Enter response...oh hell, I just downloaded SQLExpress twice!
 
 
 


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batsbrew
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Re: The standard studio monitor placement, is it correct? 2016/03/17 20:38:29 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby robbyk 2016/03/18 15:41:58
there are rules.
 
they depend on the size/shape of your room.
 
a good starting point:
 
http://arqen.com/acoustic...tup-speaker-placement/

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John
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Re: The standard studio monitor placement, is it correct? 2016/03/17 21:00:06 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Paul P 2016/03/19 00:39:49
If they are true near fields monitors you do need to have the tweeters pointing at your ears. If on the other hand they are general purpose loud speakers it doesn't matter. 
 
You may ask why? Its all about the dispersion of near fields in that they have none. So to hear the highs that they put out well they shouldn't be off axis.  Regular loud speakers are designed to have a wide dispersion to fill a room. Near fields are not so designed.  They try to give an accurate frequency response on a narrow beam and somewhat close. They don't care about filling the room with balanced sound.  
 
Try this. Back off your speakers as its playing back. Walk from side to side. Being off axis as you past through the beam. You should hear a drop in the highs the further you go off axis. This can also happen with cheap regular speakers however, its not for the same reason. Its because the maker used low dispersion tweeters that are beamy to save money.  Near fields are beamy because they are close to the listener. Thus they need to be beamy. They should have much better transient response too. With high quality drivers (tweeters) the maker wants to put the money into making them sound best not fill the room. 
 
BTW low frequencies don't have this problem.  But you may run into standing waves that can null the lows at various spots in your room.  

Best
John
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sharke
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Re: The standard studio monitor placement, is it correct? 2016/03/17 21:54:29 (permalink)
The only reasons I've heard for placing monitors in the horizontal (landscape) position are 1) that certain models were designed to be used that way (and actually state that in the manual) or 2) it allows the producer to see over the top of them so they can see the musicians better. 
 
The later model of the NS-10 (the NS-10M Studio, after Yamaha identified a market for them in the studio) was clearly designed to be used horizontally because they stuck the logo on in that direction.
 
So this:
 

 
As opposed to this:
 


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jpetersen
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Re: The standard studio monitor placement, is it correct? 2016/03/18 13:10:54 (permalink)
I have a pair of Adam A-5X's with a folded X-ART tweeter which is designed for horizontal distribution.
 
I have a pair of Neumann KH 120's with conventional tweeters, but with  a flare that is also intended to widen the sweet spot horizontally.
 
There are other nearfield monitors with this kind of design feature, so these are not optimal on their side.
 
sharke, is that NS-10 yours?!?
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bitflipper
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Re: The standard studio monitor placement, is it correct? 2016/03/19 12:27:09 (permalink)
Orientation is especially relevant for ribbon tweeters such as those used by ADAM, as they do not have the same spread in both directions. Given that they're quite directional anyhow, orienting them incorrectly might well narrow the sweet spot. Other monitors, such as Genelecs, have ovoid-shaped waveguides designed to spread the signal on the horizontal plane, so the same principle applies to them, too.
 
Silk-dome tweeters are more omni-directional, so I wouldn't expect orientation to be a big deal for NS-10s. However, I do know that there were two variants of the NS-10 made, one meant to be horizontal and the other vertical. What they did differently for the horizontal model, I do not know. The tweeters look the same.


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Rimshot
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Re: The standard studio monitor placement, is it correct? 2016/03/19 14:02:59 (permalink)
I use Equator D5's and the tweeter is in the center or the cone (coaxial design) with the bass port below. The are small enough that I would not put them on their sides. 
My old NS-10's were designed to sit on their sides and it did make a big difference when I changed their positions. 
It really depends on your room size and environment. 
Experiment!

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Re: The standard studio monitor placement, is it correct? 2016/03/19 16:25:55 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby robbyk 2016/03/19 16:49:52
Back the OP though.  Pointing the bass drivers directly at your ears and having the tweeters higher as he has done is not the go though.
 
What I do is I have a nice small circular mirror.  I tape the mirror over the tweeter temporarily with some little gaffa bits and then when I am looking directly at the speaker (tweeter) I can see myself clearly. I do it for both sides.
 
So the tweeters should be on your ear level and pointing directly towards you for the most directional clarity with highs ets.  As Bit says the highs are much more directional.  The lows are almost omni directional so you will always hear those.
 
Don't have the speakers too far apart either.  That is worse and a bigger problem.  You will have a weak centre image and then you start pushing centre panned things a little too high.  Maintain the equilateral triangle thing if you can.

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wst3
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Re: The standard studio monitor placement, is it correct? 2016/03/20 10:11:46 (permalink)
There is no right answer, other than perhaps "it depends".

There are, however, a number of really good starting points, and you've already heard several of them.

Every room is different, and more to the point, every pair of ears is different.

There are configurations I've seen that I expected to be horrible, and yet the engineer was able to create mixes that translated well to the world.

To be fair, there have been rooms where I just knew it was going to be awful, and it was<G>!

And to be equally fair, there have been rooms that looked right and sounded right, but I can't recall a case where things looked right and sounded bad. Does that  mean there was never room for improvement? I'll never know!

So where do you start?

1) room symmetry, left to right - this is about as close to absolute as it gets.
2) distance to the back wall - try your best to get the back wall at least 11 feet from your ears. Can't always be done, but if it can it makes a big difference
3) loudspeaker placement (part 1) - horizontal or vertical, and free space, half space, or dog-house - every loudspeaker is designed to work optimally in one or more configurations, so you need to read the manual. If you need to rotate the tweeter to lie them on their sides (or stand them up) do so. Similarly, if there is a switch that tries to equalize the low end depending on placement use it. And don't be afraid to try alternate positions, they probably won't work, but  if they do... Similarly again, don't be afraid to try monitors on their side even if the  manual says otherwise. Worst case you'll learn why the manufacturer advised against it. About the only rule I've run across that seems somewhat universal is that it is a really bad idea to doghouse near field monitors, and it is a really bad idea to place monitors with rear-firing ports against a wall. I'm sure there are others<G>.
4) loudspeaker placement (part 2) - distance to ears, distance between - start with the oft-quoted equilateral triangle and a distance that looks right. Distance is a crap shoot! Experiment. It is the only way to know that you've found the sweet spot. Start by adjusting distance, and keeping the equilateral triangle. Once  you've found a distance that sounds  good play with separation between the loudspeakers. For distance you are primarily listening for tonal balance, although it will impact the stereo image a little. For separation you are primarily listening to the stereo image, but tonal balance can change too.

Ain't this fun?

For folks building a new room I recommend taking care of loudspeaker placement before moving any equipment into the room - it is usually easier to adjust equipment locations. Not always (a 12 foot wide console is going to take up a lot of space<G>), but  usually.
 
And while listening/experimenting with loudspeaker placement use a LOT of different material, some of your own, and a bunch of your favorite albums. And if you have any well recorded 'naked' tracks listen to them too.

There  is science here, but there is also art. Unless you are designing the  monitors and the room from scratch the art part has a lot of impact. By way of example, my new Presonus S6 monitors are a lot closer than I expected. Thus far (and I'm far from finished) I haven't been able to screw up the stereo image much, but I have found the tonal balance to change more than expected as they move back and forth.

Another example - I have a pair of Urei 809s, and right now they are on stands in the room. They used to be mounted in the wall in my old place. There is no question I like them better that way, but I'm a ways off from building the next room, so here they stand (pun unavoidable?)



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Snehankur
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Re: The standard studio monitor placement, is it correct? 2016/03/20 21:17:21 (permalink)
Jeff Evans
Don't have the speakers too far apart either.  That is worse and a bigger problem.  You will have a weak centre image and then you start pushing centre panned things a little too high.  Maintain the equilateral triangle thing if you can.

I have a question here...
I have two 22" monitors. that makes 44 inches. The width of the monitors are 8" approx. Twice of half of each will make that 8". In total this becomes 52 inches.
From centre of table centre of each speaker is 26" apart.
So my distance should be 52 x sin60= 52 x 1.732 x 0.5 = 45" approx. Is that right? In that case 45" from monitor is a bit difficult to see with higher resolution to achieve larger real estate on monitor.
What do I do?
Regards
Snehankur
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wst3
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Re: The standard studio monitor placement, is it correct? 2016/03/20 21:30:38 (permalink)
display monitors cause all sorts of problems - we were better off with tape decks!!!
Not only do you need to be able to see your screens, but you need to arrange the displays and the loudspeakers such that the displays don't mess up the stereo image.

My suggestion would be to start with the minimum spacing you describe, and try moving the displays closer. If that doesn't cause audible problems then you are all set. If it does (and I fear it might) then you need to start with a comfortable viewing distance for the displays, and work with loudspeaker placement from there.

Good luck!

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Mosvalve
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Re: The standard studio monitor placement, is it correct? 2016/03/21 10:05:50 (permalink)
Thanks for all your suggestions and comments. I re-arranged my setup and now have my monitors vertical and closer together. From center to center of the woofers they are approx. 45" apart.  They were a little further apart. I think being a little closer may give me a more focused image. I'm paying attention to the stereo image and if that sounds right.

BobV 
 
 
 
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s5m
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Re: The standard studio monitor placement, is it correct? 2016/03/31 11:35:04 (permalink)
I have read though the scenarios for speaker placement. Some of the things (distance from the speakers and stereo image listening..I've tried). Never thought about ear level in regards to bass and treble. Makes a lot of sense. This was extremely informative information. I have been struggling with final mixes. Particularly with the highs. They always seem to get lost in the final mix.  
 
Thanks
s5m
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BrFrBob
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Re: The standard studio monitor placement, is it correct? 2016/04/03 11:04:35 (permalink)
Great, just when you think you have everything right where you want it...  So lowering the monitors 8 inches throws off my ARC measurements and if I'm going to remeasure I might as well get to that room project I've been putting off so successfully and there goes my weekend and all this because of TWEETERS!  Or I could just sit on a stack of phone books for now.
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