The take lanes implementation is a disaster

The take lanes implementation is a disaster.  I can't believe Cakewalk would take something that worked perfectly well - the old layers implementation - and replace it with a half-assed imitation of Cubase.  Actually the old system was better than what I've seen in Cubase or Samplitude.  To replace it for no reason, and then to offer something so unpleasant to use, and no ability to keep the old method, is just not nice or really smart. 
 
There's tons of bugs with it - for example, moving multiple clips from one lane to another just doesn't work, and sometimes the program doesn't show the crossfade cursor when placed between overlapping clips.  The fact that one of the tools for clip automation has been moved to a drop down menu on the take is counterintuitive and obnoxious, and it seems to have some bugs also.  The take lanes try to behave like tracks, but you can't add effects to an individual lane, which could have useful creative purposes.  The way all of the takes zoom at once is unpleasant and the fact that there's a maximum zoom level removes the only possible advantage zooming the lanes could offer.  When the take lanes are shown, it wastes space by emptying the track - the old method conserved space and allowed you to look at the track layers without changing the overall look of the tracks in the track view.
 
The only real problem with the old method was that when collapsed, the muted clips would usually appear in the track instead of the intended takes.  But, of course, that isn't fixed in the new version. 
 
The only thing better about the new version is that you can individually zoom waveforms, but even this is broken, since when you zoom the waveform on a track it doesn't carry over to the lanes when you expand them.
 
Automation lanes suffer from a lot of the same problems.

I have to say that take lanes as currently implemented in X2 are pretty horrible to work with. I think the old take layers were far superior. Sure, they had a few bugs of their own, but somehow the baby got thrown out with the bath water. I used to routinely edit multitrack drums in Sonar, but have given up even trying in X2. Working with audiosnap in take lanes is just too buggy.

Whether they stick with lanes or go back to layers, I really hope this part of Sonar gets some serious attention in the next release.

The buggy, poor implementation of Take Lanes is the main reason I will be very discouraged from continuing w/ Cakewalk if they simply release X3 (or whatever it will be called) w/o addressing these issues for current X2 users.  But we will see.  I'm very interested to see how they handle this.

I'm planning to start working with Sonar again for composition and producing (haven't really much since just a bit on v.6 and v.8, as my main DAW is Samplitude for recording/editing/mixing/mastering). So, I'm interested in this take lane discussion.
 
I have a fully functioning X1d and now X2a.
I'm aware that much pleasure/irritation with software is with perceived intuitiveness. We like software programmed to work how WE think. Having to change our workflow is like getting inside someone else's head and trying to make sense of how they think.
That said -- unfixed bugs are irritations to everyone. Rightly so. And a kludge is almost never worth taking time to learn.
 
Since I'll be coming at this as a re-newbie, would some of you recommend I use X1d and learn how to use Layers? Or take the plunge with X2a and learn to get comfy with the Take Lanes?
 
Any recommended videos/tutorials for either one that have been helpful to you?
 
Craig

Craigster91
I'm planning to start working with Sonar again for composition and producing (haven't really much since just a bit on v.6 and v.8, as my main DAW is Samplitude for recording/editing/mixing/mastering). So, I'm interested in this take lane discussion. I have a fully functioning X1d and now X2a.I'm aware that much pleasure/irritation with software is with perceived intuitiveness. We like software programmed to work how WE think. Having to change our workflow is like getting inside someone else's head and trying to make sense of how they think.That said -- unfixed bugs are irritations to everyone. Rightly so. And a kludge is almost never worth taking time to learn. Since I'll be coming at this as a re-newbie, would some of you recommend I use X1d and learn how to use Layers? Or take the plunge with X2a and learn to get comfy with the Take Lanes? Any recommended videos/tutorials for either one that have been helpful to you? Craig

I'd wait for a month or so see what X3 offers (meanwhile you can keep creating music with Samplitude). You may not like the direction Cakewalk will be taking and learning track layers or take lanes now could be a total waste of time. Something tells me X3 is going to be great, though.

Keep talkin' Keni and Steve.  You are giving voice to my major beef with X2--so big a beef that I'm using X1 until things change dramatically.  I love layers in X1 except for one thing:  the mute/solo buttons per layer are very small, but I get by.  Take lanes are totally buggy for all the reasons given in other threads, and they are cumbersome:  an extra mouse click to open / close the lanes that wasn't there in layers.  The fixed smallest size is also a problem for me.  If we could toggle (or re-set) between layers and lanes, it would be a dream.

There's been enough complaints about Take Lanes that I've held off even learning how they work, figuring I'd put in the time once I'd heard that they'd been fixed.  There's so much to learn that I've been busy in other parts of X2.
 
I won't be happy if I have to pay 100$ for them to be fixed in a new release.  And how confident are people that even in a new release they'll be all that great.  I'll definitely be waiting to hear from the naysayers before considering upgrading.
 
I'm still waiting for X2b and will remain optimistic until something happens.
 

stevec
Like Jlien X said, I'd wait to see if something new is coming in the near future before making a decision.
 
Obviously a few folks on this thread do not like Take Lanes at all and much prefer the older Layers.  I never thought Layers were really all that and mostly prefer Lanes... with the exception of the height restriction - I would like to see that addressed in the next version.   Both Layers and Lanes have/had odd issues, but with Layers users simply learned what they were.   Any issues with Lanes seem a bit more difficult to pin down, though I don't personally run into that many myself... fortunately.
 

Hi Steve...
 
what's so hard to pin down... Wait... Let's make a little list (in no particular order than they come to mind right now) some are design issues and others bugs...:
 
Can't zoom large/small enough
Waste Screen Real Estate
Easy to confuse Tracks with Lanes at times
Can't control which clips are displayed when Lanes are closed
Intermittent difficulty moving/copying clips to other Lanes/Tracks...
Too many clicks and mouse movements required to adjust zoom
 
Anyone care to add more? these are on my mind right now...
 
Layers were totally comfortable, but in need of some bug fixes and a few added tools.... Conserved space and allowed me to see all my data within the same amount of screen space whether Layers were displayed or not....
 
Now a session almost never goes by without me being disturbed at working with Lanes... <sigh>...
 
Keni
 
 

I don't see it as older tech.... More design choice...
 
Design or bug, they are far harder for me to work with than Layers were....
 
I'm hoping they add an option to display lanes within the track area.... That and "fixing" the zoom issues along with actual bugs (i.e. moving/copying issue) and I could probably live with them...
 
Keni
 

wow!! I'm pretty much a newbie and was posting some issues I'm coming up against in the "Getting Started" forum on Lane Takes and now in this forum I see they are a complete mess!!!
 
This is what I posted in the getting started forum (like I said i'm really new to this and thought take lanes is a great idea, apparently not so)..
 
But if what I'm seeing is a bug then please tell me as I am beginning to get a headache over this..
 
(Can't seem to link a URL - how do you post URL's in this forum?)

Take-Lanes-m2880993.aspx
 
PS Sorry to overtake this thread, just don't think its worth starting up a new thread for this unless you know its something new..
 
 
 

 
Even a single command for Remove Empty Lanes would speed things up a little.

i gotta say, with the exception of not being able to delete all empty lanes with one click, i kinda like take lanes.  i've been using them every day for the past few months & only 1 crash

Silicon Audio
My hope is that someone from the Cakewalk Bakery sees this thread and gets to understand the general consensus around take lanes.

I'm thinking that if they haven't gotten it by now w/ all the threads and posts preceding this one about Take Lanes then unfortunately this one probably won't do it either.   However, I'd definitely like to be wrong on that.

SuperG
I have no problems with take lanes - not sure what the consensus is other than the fact that those that don't like them tend to whine louder.

Then here's another stat for your consensus.
Can't stand them, won't use them.

I think that is exactly what you usually do, Steve.   Must be the name or something.    
 
However, I think I get where SuperG is coming from too, because this isn't the first time a "consensus" has been stated when in fact there really isn't one.  Or if there is, we have no way of knowing since this forum represents a limited cross-section of the SONAR user base.   
 
I've been on these forums about as long as anyone and have seen this pattern repeated over the years.   Whenever a small group of users have the same view on something, that group becomes "we" and it (whatever it is) will likely be used in many threads.   Right or wrong, it's just the way things tend to happen.  The only incident that stands out to me as being more than just that, was when X1 was first released.   Everything else pales in comparison.        But hey, them's be growing pains, and sometimes you just gotta get thru it.