35mm
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The unstoppable process bug - needs fixing
As many of us know, sometimes when Sonar/Cake crashes (often caused by plugins and audio drivers) the process still running in task manager cannot be killed. The best solution I have found for that is to switch off my audio interface and after a few seconds, the process will end. Most people don't know about that and are forced to reboot their system! This hung process issue can also occur when exiting Sonar/Cake sometimes which means when you try to launch Cake again, nothing happens.
This unstoppable process bug has been around for a long time and I frequently see posts here and on Facebook about it. Now, a friend who I recommended Cake and Bandlab to has sent me a very frustrated message regarding this very issue. It crashed, and he couldn't kill the process - many of us know his frustration. His reaction to it is fairly standard, "It's a buggy pile of cr*p!". The chances are Cake didn't crash because of a bug in its code, but most likely because of a plugin or driver. My concern is this: if you spend good money on software and it does this, you spend time and effort trying to resolve it, finding a fix, a workaround or reporting it, or living with it. If however, you got the software for free, you are more likely to give up, right it off as buggy freeware and uninstall it and then tell everyone it's no good.
This is probably THE worst user experience someone can have with Cake and it is not uncommon - anyone who uses Cake for any time will experience this. All DAWs crash occasionally, but usually they will close cleanly leaving no processes running and can simply be relaunched. I really think it's about time Cakewalk/Bandlab fixed this unstoppable process issue. It would surely only require a few lines of error handling code! I can see this bug more than any other putting people off using it and going off and telling everyone else that, "It's a buggy pile of cr*p" and I don't think Bandlab or any of us want that!
Splat, Win 10 64bit and all sorts of musical odds and sods collected over the years, but still missing a lot of my old analogue stuff I sold off years ago.
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35mm
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Re: The unstoppable process bug - needs fixing
2018/04/15 15:31:43
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Just for the record, here is the message from my friend which I will share here because I think it is typical of the frustration new users will have with this bug.
------------------------------------------------------
Al you can stick cakewalk up your a*se
Buggy piece of sh*t
Will not let me quite the f**king program
Even when doing control alt delete and bring up task manager
It's got some sh*t going in the background
Oh f**k me doing my head in
I'm trying to be good and learn it from the top
It used to f**king work
-------------------------------------------------------
Splat, Win 10 64bit and all sorts of musical odds and sods collected over the years, but still missing a lot of my old analogue stuff I sold off years ago.
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Rasure
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Re: The unstoppable process bug - needs fixing
2018/04/15 15:40:18
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IMO Cakewalk needs a lot of work.
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35mm
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Re: The unstoppable process bug - needs fixing
2018/04/15 15:52:36
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Rasure
IMO Cakewalk needs a lot of work.
Rasure, all software needs a lot of work continually which is why they have updates. I am highlighting one issue which I really think will be a killer for new users of the free Cakewalk. Of course, there are other things that can be added to the list, but this is a major UX issue that will turn people away and potentially damage the reputation of CakeLab.
Splat, Win 10 64bit and all sorts of musical odds and sods collected over the years, but still missing a lot of my old analogue stuff I sold off years ago.
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sharke
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Re: The unstoppable process bug - needs fixing
2018/04/15 15:54:01
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I don't think I ever experienced a Sonar crash after which the task couldn't be killed (although sometimes it took repeated clicking of "end task" to do it). But I frequently encountered situations in which closing Sonar normally (i.e. no crash) wouldn't kill the task and I'd have to do it manually. Many people have complained about this as well. It's certainly not the most graceful program in the world in this regard.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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35mm
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Re: The unstoppable process bug - needs fixing
2018/04/15 16:03:36
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sharke
I don't think I ever experienced a Sonar crash after which the task couldn't be killed (although sometimes it took repeated clicking of "end task" to do it). But I frequently encountered situations in which closing Sonar normally (i.e. no crash) wouldn't kill the task and I'd have to do it manually. Many people have complained about this as well. It's certainly not the most graceful program in the world in this regard.
Sharke, I think it may depend on the audio interface or setup. The process is normally unkillable for me with three different audio interfaces - Focusrite Safire, Focusrite Pro 40 and M-Audio ProjectMix (used at separate times of course). Many of the reports I have seen from other users are about the process being unkillable too. I assume it has something to do with communication between Cake and the Asio driver not disconnecting. In my case, the process ends if I power down my audio interface. Before I discovered that, I would have to reboot the whole computer.
Splat, Win 10 64bit and all sorts of musical odds and sods collected over the years, but still missing a lot of my old analogue stuff I sold off years ago.
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Cactus Music
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Re: The unstoppable process bug - needs fixing
2018/04/15 16:08:31
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32 bit plug ins, don't use them.
I have never had Sonar crash and not end the process as you say.
I'm pretty sure that Bug is Bit Bridge related.
But I agree, no matter what, people will react the way your friend did and move on.
They made a mistake buy releasing the Bandlab assistant before anyone tested it out and who knows how many hundreds tried it and were turned off by the "shareware invasive" aura of that first version. They probably won't come back.
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bluebeat1313
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Re: The unstoppable process bug - needs fixing
2018/04/15 16:09:10
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Was using Cakewalk for years,
Always were able to close processes if crashed. Maybe it is hardware / software specifics of some machines?
Buggy Interface usb/audio driver? USB drivers have a way of doing crazy stuff. I would not go into specifics, but recently a USB driver on major brand laptop (Lenovo) gave me a lot of problems with Sonar (AND OTHER SOFT!)
The workaround was disabling some uncommon power saving parameter.... that happened because Lenovo had a buggy win 10 driver specifically for that machine. My point is.... That I thought it was Sonar bug, but it was completely random thing that took me 2 month to solve.
Just guessing :)
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iRelevant
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Re: The unstoppable process bug - needs fixing
2018/04/15 16:23:04
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Thanks for the info ... good to know.
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35mm
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Re: The unstoppable process bug - needs fixing
2018/04/15 16:32:10
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bluebeat1313
Was using Cakewalk for years,
Always were able to close processes if crashed. Maybe it is hardware / software specifics of some machines?
Buggy Interface usb/audio driver? USB drivers have a way of doing crazy stuff. I would not go into specifics, but recently a USB driver on major brand laptop (Lenovo) gave me a lot of problems with Sonar (AND OTHER SOFT!)
The workaround was disabling some uncommon power saving parameter.... that happened because Lenovo had a buggy win 10 driver specifically for that machine. My point is.... That I thought it was Sonar bug, but it was completely random thing that took me 2 month to solve.
Just guessing :)
My audio interfaces are firewire and my friend's was USB, so that rules it out being a USB issue.
Splat, Win 10 64bit and all sorts of musical odds and sods collected over the years, but still missing a lot of my old analogue stuff I sold off years ago.
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Brando
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Re: The unstoppable process bug - needs fixing
2018/04/15 16:40:05
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I get this in Studio One as frequently as I ever did in SONAR. Haven't used CbB enough to compare. I disagree with the premise this is a Cakewalk issue. As others have noted, it is more likely hardware, drivers, plugins, in my own experience at least.
Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
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paulo
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Re: The unstoppable process bug - needs fixing
2018/04/15 17:11:30
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35mm
Just for the record, here is the message from my friend which I will share here because I think it is typical of the frustration new users will have with this bug.
------------------------------------------------------
Al you can stick cakewalk up your a*se
Buggy piece of sh*t
Will not let me quite the f**king program
Even when doing control alt delete and bring up task manager
It's got some sh*t going in the background
Oh f**k me doing my head in
I'm trying to be good and learn it from the top
It used to f**king work
-------------------------------------------------------
 Hmmm, he seems like quite the lyricist. A bit 1970's though. FWIW, I've had this issue from time to time. Usually opening another program that uses audio (audacity in my case) is enough to clear it. IMO It's not half as irritating as the one that generates multiple crash notifications and then dumps multiple Gb of error reports onto my OS drive. That I could really do without.
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bluebeat1313
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Re: The unstoppable process bug - needs fixing
2018/04/15 17:14:18
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35mm... I just mentioned USB as an example. In my case disabling particular advanced "Power saving" features on USB resolved issue not related to particular USB ports. Just an idea.... Keep device manager open and when/ if Cakewalk crashes try to disable firewire driver (right click) and then re-enable it. Also, you can try disabling all "power saving" features of that driver, to run it in full power without any Win software interference. HID drivers are also pain in the butt, especially the ones on older computers (Win 7/8) that had drivers updated to be compatible with win 10. The only times I remember when Sonar crashed on me (past few years) was from older plugins and when I try to "retake" (press record button) right away after deleting "take lane" without waiting 2-3 seconds. And the USB power issue I described. Ohh just remembered... Years ago I had huge headache with Taskam interfaces + Cakewalk. And again, that was crappy Taskam unit that made life uneasy for me. P.S. Try to go to the manufacturer of your firewire chip and see if they have an update. Sometimes windows driver catalog does not pick up all updates.
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paulo
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Re: The unstoppable process bug - needs fixing
2018/04/15 17:17:47
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Cactus Music
32 bit plug ins, don't use them.
I have never had Sonar crash and not end the process as you say.
I'm pretty sure that Bug is Bit Bridge related.
I use 32 bit plug ins all the time in 32 bit Platinum and it still happens.
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35mm
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Re: The unstoppable process bug - needs fixing
2018/04/15 17:30:53
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bluebeat1313
35mm...
I just mentioned USB as an example. In my case disabling particular advanced "Power saving" features on USB resolved issue not related to particular USB ports. Just an idea.... Keep device manager open and when/ if Cakewalk crashes try to disable firewire driver (right click) and then re-enable it. Also, you can try disabling all "power saving" features of that driver, to run it in full power without any Win software interference. HID drivers are also pain in the butt, especially the ones on older computers (Win 7/8) that had drivers updated to be compatible with win 10.
The only times I remember when Sonar crashed on me (past few years) was from older plugins and when I try to "retake" (press record button) right away after deleting "take lane" without waiting 2-3 seconds. And the USB power issue I described.
Ohh just remembered... Years ago I had huge headache with Taskam interfaces + Cakewalk. And again, that was crappy Taskam unit that made life uneasy for me.
P.S. Try to go to the manufacturer of your firewire chip and see if they have an update. Sometimes windows driver catalog does not pick up all updates.
I have all power saving features disabled anyway as part of optimizing the system for a DAW. I'm not suggesting the crashes are a Cake issue as most DAW crashes are plugin or driver related for any DAW. I only have these crashes occasionally. The issue is the unkillable process which, despite how it looks on this thread, I have seen loads of others complain about in the past. There's no need to disable and re-enable the driver, I just power cycle my audio interface and that works for me when I get the issue, but other users wont know that and will have to reboot the system.
Splat, Win 10 64bit and all sorts of musical odds and sods collected over the years, but still missing a lot of my old analogue stuff I sold off years ago.
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35mm
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Re: The unstoppable process bug - needs fixing
2018/04/15 17:38:12
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Brando
I get this in Studio One as frequently as I ever did in SONAR. Haven't used CbB enough to compare. I disagree with the premise this is a Cakewalk issue. As others have noted, it is more likely hardware, drivers, plugins, in my own experience at least.
I have never had the unkillable process in other DAWs including Studio One, Samplitude, Mixbus, Reaper, FLStudio, Audition etc. I have had occasional, random crashes in them, but without the stuck process. I am not referring to the cause of the crash - as I said already crashes in any DAW are usually caused by plugins or drivers. I am referring to the unkillable process after a crash.
Splat, Win 10 64bit and all sorts of musical odds and sods collected over the years, but still missing a lot of my old analogue stuff I sold off years ago.
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Brando
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Re: The unstoppable process bug - needs fixing
2018/04/16 14:03:55
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Me too - just had one in Studio One. In this case I attribute it to XLN Cloud Sync. I made the mistake of remaining connected (which I sometimes do as I am working on my DAW). I have AD2 loaded in a current project (not even active). I got a crash while recording multiple instrument tracks, and couldn't simply close Studio One in task manager - I had to end the XLN Cloud Sync task before I could (eventually) close Studio One.
post edited by Brando - 2018/04/16 18:06:33
Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
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TStorms
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Re: The unstoppable process bug - needs fixing
2018/04/17 05:13:01
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I had the non-endable process problem in Cakewalk. Sonar had this problem due to my AKAI USB keyboard but that was sorted out over a year ago. In this case, I waited 30 minutes or so (actually, I did something else for a while and ignored the problem) and it finally ended but no immediate response to task manager's end-task command.
Hipatitis (n): Terminal coolness. Platinum on Win 7 Intel i7 870 8GB Ram Crucial SSD WD Raptor 10K RPM TC Electronic StudioKonnekt48 Akai MPK49
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promidi
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Re: The unstoppable process bug - needs fixing
2018/04/17 05:22:40
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I have a script that stops the sonar task. The active ingredient is this:
taskkill /IM Cakewalk.exe /F <------ note: this exe is for Cakewalk by Bandlab
taskkill /im faultreporter.exe <------ only if the fault reporter comes up
I have yet to have a crash that could not be killed this way. And a crash is either I've done something silly or a plug in. Either way, they have been relatively rare.
Windows 10 64bit fully patched, 16 gig ram . PCR-800 Controller. (Working in Win 10 1809 64bit)CPU: i5 4670. Video: Nvidia GTX560ti (latest drivers). Audio IF: Focusrite 2i2 2nd Gen
Internet always on.
Software: Cakewalk by Bandlab (2018.09 B29)
ASIO mode. 24bit 48khz 256 samples Rapture Pro, AAS GS2, VS-3, EP-4, VA-2, Chromophone 2, Z3TA+ 2, Addictive drums 2, Addictive Keys, Mpowersynth (latest), Iris 2, GPO5, Sampletank 3,
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