Helpful ReplyThe wonderful world of VST instruments

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abacab
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Re: The wonderful world of VST instruments 2017/09/09 01:01:20 (permalink)
bitflipper
 
To get back on topic, I agree with Mr. Baer above. Omnisphere is far and away my favorite synthesizer, but if I had to choose just one thing to take to a hypothetical desert island (that somehow had electricity), it wouldn't be Omnisphere. It would be Kontakt.




Which is why my recommendation to the OP was to check out the free Kontakt Player, as well as the Sampletank CE, to see what he thinks about them.  Kontakt would be the best option if you plan to collect sample libraries.

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#31
bigcatt
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Re: The wonderful world of VST instruments 2017/09/09 06:09:52 (permalink)
So much depends on what you want to do and advice depends on where the advice giver is in their musical journey and the biases they have developed.
 
For orchestral stuff this is the best short guide ever made...
https://stormsoundmusic.com/guide
 
Everyone who is in any form serious ends up with Kontakt. Try to do it at a substantial discount and consider Komplete.
#32
Vastman
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Re: The wonderful world of VST instruments 2017/09/09 07:39:01 (permalink)
Bigcat... Zao's guide is very incomplete...and dated... yes, good stuff but wouldn't use it as a buying guide as includes many dated and little of the recent things like inspire  or TO... is newer better? In this case, YES! GUI design, sampling techniques, scripting...all have improved to help make libraries more playable and realistic, less CPU/ram memory/SSD intensive...by average players like me
 
Re Omnisphere vs Kontakt? The free Kontakt  player gets you the orchestrals and O2 gets u the world. Is Kontakt in nearly every orchestrators/songwriters arsenal? Yes, as is O2... Kontakt is a far better sampler but there it ends. My point is you get the high end content that would cost thousands to try and replicate with K (a pretty empty vessel on its own...and yea, komplete/ultimate gets u loads and it's the "wow! Bargain basement effect that's gotten so many of us to buy in but it's all over the place, gui/quality/feature wise AND learning curve is high for all the zillion so so things which aren't  in omnisphere's league.
 
I know there are lots of komplete fans here...heck, I have Kultimate  myself... but the best thing in it,by far, is kontakt however, even here, each library is different, gui wise... not to mention quality and cost...its an endless moneypit for quality stuff
 
Just pointing a few things out to someone who might wanna focus on composing vs endless, "Wtf is this and how do I use it?"s and disappointments...in this regard, O2 excels, as does it's stellar 60 gb library and unparalled effects plus ability to layer/modulate everything with a consistant engine like no other.
 
Omnisphere+inspire+The Orchestra... top notch, state of the art weapons with NO garbage, confusion, wasted $$$/gas regrets...for $1000!  The rest can come later...and itll all be different by then, but that is an immediate arsenal, and when married with all the free Skippy education vids and additional content... heaven...
 
Just offering a contrary pathway not mired in "history" that avoids the endless gas expense, offers the most bang for the buck, modern/efficient/useable GUI's, top notch quality and immediate usefullness to a musician/songwriter.
 
https://www.pluginguru.com/products/
https://www.youtube.com/user/thepluginguru
 
I'll go away now...

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#33
Marshall
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Re: The wonderful world of VST instruments 2017/09/09 07:47:32 (permalink)
OP again - thanks all for your fascinating input so far...
 
I watched some Groove3 videos last night on both Kontakt and Omnisphere. After watching the first three on Kontakt I was beginning to lose the will to live - it just sounded so complicated. But then a few pennies began to drop, and I did start to get it - a bit. 
 
I do have the free Kontakt player by the way, and am continuing to experiment with it before making a decision. 
 
I then watched some Omnisphere videos and somehow it looked so much more logical!
 
There is a massive difference in the GUIs - Kontakt to my eyes looks so dated and clunky, whereas Omnisphere is bright, well organised, easy to follow and modern.
 
Of course it is not primarily about the GUIs, but the sounds and the functionality at the end of the day. 
 
Back on Groove3, Eli Krantzberg (for whom I have massive respect) sounded positively downhearted  as he went through the technical stuff on Kontakt - just my impression - it's just so utilitarian looking. He also does the Omnisphere series too, and was sounding positively chipper by comparison! 
 
I know I said I was looking primarily for real world instruments but great sounding synths would also be a really useful addition to my music making. 
 
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Glyn Barnes
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Re: The wonderful world of VST instruments 2017/09/09 08:32:46 (permalink)
bitflipper
abacab
But be honest,  that it is the company you have a grudge against, and not the product.  ST3 delivers what it claims to just fine!



I have no grudge against IKM. It is the product, not the company.
Same here, while there are some nice sounds in ST3 I can almost always do better elsewhere. It was a disappointment and I usually look to Kontakt first, then Composer Cloud, UVI and Rapture Pro

Amplitube on the other hand is the biz.

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Marshall
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Re: The wonderful world of VST instruments 2017/09/11 13:16:14 (permalink)
Just to round this off, I have decided to buy Omnisphere first, and when Kontakt goes on sale (perhaps Black Friday) I'll maybe pick that up too.

I've been blown away by some of the sound demos I've heard of Omnisphere, including a couple by one of my heroes, Jordan Rudess at NAMM.

I know this is somewhat at odds with my emphasis on real instruments in my original post, but I think if I pick up Kontakt as well and add to it if I need to, I'll have most bases covered. I'm not trying to compose a classical score.

I really appreciate all the time folks have gone to in enlightening me in this thread. I've certainly learned tons.
#36
bitflipper
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Re: The wonderful world of VST instruments 2017/09/11 15:03:10 (permalink)
Jordan Rudess is the one who sold me Omnisphere, too. Beware; once you get sucked into the Spectrasonics world, Trillian and Keyscape will also start calling out to you.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#37
Fleer
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Re: The wonderful world of VST instruments 2017/09/12 03:17:17 (permalink)
Check out Jordan's GeoShred app. Remarkable.

"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
#38
abacab
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Re: The wonderful world of VST instruments 2017/09/12 12:36:09 (permalink)
Marshall
Just to round this off, I have decided to buy Omnisphere first, and when Kontakt goes on sale (perhaps Black Friday) I'll maybe pick that up too.

I've been blown away by some of the sound demos I've heard of Omnisphere, including a couple by one of my heroes, Jordan Rudess at NAMM.

I know this is somewhat at odds with my emphasis on real instruments in my original post, but I think if I pick up Kontakt as well and add to it if I need to, I'll have most bases covered. I'm not trying to compose a classical score.

I really appreciate all the time folks have gone to in enlightening me in this thread. I've certainly learned tons.



Let us know how you get on with Omnisphere! 
 
I have held off, mostly due to the cost, and that there is no demo version.  But the demo videos do look cool, and a lot of folks seem to like it!

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#39
Marshall
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Re: The wonderful world of VST instruments 2017/09/14 16:43:05 (permalink)
I took delivery of Omnisphere today. Obviously just been flicking through some presets and stuff so far, but one expression comes to mind - JAW DROPPING. The last time I felt compelled to use that expression in relation to music software was when I first got Melodyne 10+ years ago.
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Fleer
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Re: The wonderful world of VST instruments 2017/09/14 17:36:15 (permalink)
Congrats, Marshall, the best of the best. Now visit PlugInGuru and get some extra kicks.

"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: The wonderful world of VST instruments 2017/09/14 19:11:59 (permalink)
Congrats Bill , 
 
I'm probably do it the way you did by getting  Omnisphere first over the NI stuff. 
 
all the best,
 
Kenny

                   
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#42
abacab
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Re: The wonderful world of VST instruments 2017/09/14 19:53:20 (permalink)
I took a look at the Groove 3 videos on Omnisphere 2.
 
That is a very impressive browser and search function that Spectrasonics have developed.  I'm sure that is where much of the power for finding and shaping the sound layers you want resides.  The Boolean search "and/or/not" is also very cool!
 
I am sure that many other synths and samplers could create most any single patch layer sound that exists in the Omnisphere library, but what really seems to set it apart is the very efficient workflow for creating layers and multis.  I have been creating layers of multiple synths (internal and external) for quite some time, stacking them in a DAW, and it is one aspect of sound design that can be very rewarding.  But having that ability in a common GUI environment and browser takes it to a whole new level. 
 
Still wish they had a demo version! 

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#43
bitflipper
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Re: The wonderful world of VST instruments 2017/09/14 22:55:02 (permalink)
abacab, apologies for seeming to contradict you at every turn in this thread - not my intention, believe me. But yeh, it actually is about the sounds, many of which are truly unique. They set a piano on fire, built one-of-a-kind acoustical instruments, applied bows to just about everything, and sampled rare vintage instruments that only exist in museums and private collections.  A sonic palette that literally no other synth even comes close to.
 
Now, there are legitimate questions as to how many of those sounds are musically useful. To me, a great many are not. Those just happen to be the ones that I could create using another synth, e.g. massively-unison detuned sawtooths. Yawn. Fortunately, they constitute perhaps only a thousand or so patches, leaving plenty of others to choose from.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

My Stuff
#44
abacab
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Re: The wonderful world of VST instruments 2017/09/14 23:03:30 (permalink)
bit, That's all good info and is quite believable, but I can imagine that if Spectrasonics would just assemble a small part of that into a demo package, then they could make believers out of us skeptics.  $500 on faith, I dunno ...

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#45
Vastman
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Re: The wonderful world of VST instruments 2017/09/15 00:16:37 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby pentimentosound 2017/09/16 13:52:05
Yay! Great move... As Fleer noted, avail yourself to the guru's numerous educational vids and pick up some goodies on his next sale...

Enjoy... Smart move

BTW, it is $431 at Jrr shop with code GROUP. You have to wait for the USB package in the mail but it's only a couple days

Dana
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#46
Jeff Evans
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Re: The wonderful world of VST instruments 2017/09/15 00:38:26 (permalink)
As someone who has composed and produced a lot of music involving synthesis I can offer a different point of view. From a totally synthesist point of view as opposed to someone using a synthesiser in a more traditional rock or pop context. 
 
Every synth has a sonic signature and using one to do many things can suffer from everything sounding like it is coming from just one synth. (software included)  It is better to involve a range of synths in order to get the different sonic signatures and be able to blend them.  Something a single instrument can never do.  I have a large collection of instruments which between them would easily cover the sonic palette that Omnisphere would offer and probably far more in reality.  Instruments like Native Thrill for example. (with its 30 Gig library!)  This is a Cinematic tension instrument and Omnisphere would not even come anywhere close to this.  Others like Prism, Alchemy and Granite and the list goes on.  So I agree with abacab in that with multiple instruments you can basically cover everything and more.  Latest thing for me is PPG Infinite. This is an iOS app only right now but if you have an iPad docked into a quality dock and connected up to your studio it becomes a seriously playable synth.  And it has a sound out of this world.  No samples in sight either.  It also goes into territory I doubt Omnisphere could venture into.
 
Having a range of synths is one of the reasons I have not bought into Omnisphere because I don't feel any real need to.  I am sure it is a fantastic instrument for someone who did not have that much to start with and wanted to get a lot at once it would be an excellent choice.
 
I don't agree with the OP poster getting it first.  It does not have a full range of bread and butter sounds like Kontakt does.  And as pointed out here when he needs a simple cello line he may not find it anywhere in Omnisphere.  (pity considering you have just spent $500!) I think he has been a victim of the hype surrounding it instead of the real need.  A GUI should not matter, it is all about its sound and nothing more.  Any GUI or synths operating system can be gotten around in order to get a job done.  The demos for it may be amazing but you have to ask yourself are you going to produce music exactly like the demos.
 
I have built up the bread and butter sounds myself first before getting into anything other than that and I can assure people that in reality it is those sounds that really get used most often.  In my case anyway it was certainly the better way to go.  Especially from the point of view of doing jobs professionally and getting paid for them. 
post edited by Jeff Evans - 2017/09/15 01:03:41

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#47
Marshall
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Re: The wonderful world of VST instruments 2017/09/15 08:57:07 (permalink)
Jeff Evans
 
I don't agree with the OP poster getting it first.  It does not have a full range of bread and butter sounds like Kontakt does.  And as pointed out here when he needs a simple cello line he may not find it anywhere in Omnisphere.  (pity considering you have just spent $500!) I think he has been a victim of the hype surrounding it instead of the real need.  A GUI should not matter, it is all about its sound and nothing more.  Any GUI or synths operating system can be gotten around in order to get a job done.  The demos for it may be amazing but you have to ask yourself are you going to produce music exactly like the demos.
 



I am sorry you don't agree with my decision - and I certainly don't feel like a victim! I think we are coming at this from totally different musical backgrounds, I am not in any immediate need of a simple cello line, and FWIW I bought Omnisphere in the full knowledge that there would be bread and butter sounds that I would still need - hence I will probably get Kontakt as well, when it goes on sale. 
#48
Marshall
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Re: The wonderful world of VST instruments 2017/09/15 08:59:31 (permalink)
Vastman
Yay! Great move... As Fleer noted, avail yourself to the guru's numerous educational vids and pick up some goodies on his next sale...

Enjoy... Smart move


Thanks for originally bringing it to my attention - absolutely thrilled!
#49
Jeff Evans
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Re: The wonderful world of VST instruments 2017/09/16 00:47:06 (permalink)
Bill I fully respect your decision to go with Omnisphere first.  You know best what sort of music you are going to be creating and therefore it probably suits that decision well.  I am sure you will love it.  But I can guarantee at some point despite its million presets there will be a sound that you really want and it won't be in there! No one synth no matter what it is can do everything. Simple as that.
 
I am not sure if Kontakt has ever gone on sale or if it has I may have missed it.  Can someone answer that as to whether it has.  It is also a pretty hefty outlay. I have a battery of hardware samplers (with huge libraries) and yet I feel for me personally Kontakt is something I would go for even before Omnisphere.  Probably as I have got a lot of the Omnisphere stuff covered with a range of other instruments. 
 
I recently installed the free version of IK Syntronik and I am knocked out as to how good that instrument sounds.  It is amazing.  I should upgrade to the full version of that before I do anything.  It is not cheap either so I have to just hang in there and hope for a sale on that at some point. (Note this is really an analog synth fest so it is a bit specialised as well) 

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Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
#50
Fleer
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Re: The wonderful world of VST instruments 2017/09/16 01:12:26 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby pentimentosound 2017/09/16 13:52:56
Jeff, you can get Kontakt half price by crossgrading from a free Sennheiser drum library. Read all about it here:
https://www.kvraudio.com/...iewtopic.php?p=6171965

"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
#51
abacab
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Re: The wonderful world of VST instruments 2017/09/16 01:16:49 (permalink)
I also discovered that I am eligible for a Kontakt crossgrade based on the free Soniccouture Estey Reed Organ that was offered a while back...

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#52
Jeff Evans
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Re: The wonderful world of VST instruments 2017/09/16 01:40:16 (permalink)
Thanks guys I will look into it.  I also have the free Kontakt player and bought quite a few paid for full Kontakt libraries that work fully with it too.  Does that help?  I also have the full version of Prism too. (Reaktor)

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Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
#53
Fleer
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Re: The wonderful world of VST instruments 2017/09/16 01:47:44 (permalink)

"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
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abacab
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Re: The wonderful world of VST instruments 2017/09/16 12:19:24 (permalink)
If you sign into your NI account and click to buy a Kontakt crossgrade, they will inform you if you already have a qualifying product, and the price you are eligible for.  I see a nice discount in my account.
 
But so far I have resisted falling into this money pit, as I already have over 80 virtual instruments to keep me busy! 

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#55
Marshall
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Re: The wonderful world of VST instruments 2017/09/16 13:02:13 (permalink)
Jeff Evans
Bill I fully respect your decision to go with Omnisphere first.  You know best what sort of music you are going to be creating and therefore it probably suits that decision well.  I am sure you will love it.  But I can guarantee at some point despite its million presets there will be a sound that you really want and it won't be in there! No one synth no matter what it is can do everything. Simple as that.
 
I am not sure if Kontakt has ever gone on sale or if it has I may have missed it.  Can someone answer that as to whether it has.  It is also a pretty hefty outlay. I have a battery of hardware samplers (with huge libraries) and yet I feel for me personally Kontakt is something I would go for even before Omnisphere.  Probably as I have got a lot of the Omnisphere stuff covered with a range of other instruments. 
 
I recently installed the free version of IK Syntronik and I am knocked out as to how good that instrument sounds.  It is amazing.  I should upgrade to the full version of that before I do anything.  It is not cheap either so I have to just hang in there and hope for a sale on that at some point. (Note this is really an analog synth fest so it is a bit specialised as well) 


Jeff, a couple of people on this thread have said that Kontakt has in the past gone on sale around Black Friday. Unlike you, I would not have an upgrade option, so I am hoping to pick it up at a lower cost then. 
 
Also, thanks for the tip about IK Syntronik - I downloaded the free version this morning and there are some great sounds on it. I particularly like the PolyM Brass Light - add a touch of chorus and it gives a very usable Tony Banks Cinema Show type sound.  
#56
pentimentosound
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Re: The wonderful world of VST instruments 2017/09/16 13:54:18 (permalink)
My original Garritan GPO qualifies me, for the NI crossgrade, which was a surprise.
 
Does that mean the $249 crossgrade price will be $125 during their sale (whenever)?
Thanks
Michael
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Fleer
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Re: The wonderful world of VST instruments 2017/09/16 15:06:59 (permalink)
Marshall, if you get that free Sennheiser drum library, you can crossgrade to Kontakt at half price.
Michael, check that KVR-thread. If the same sale is offered again, that's the best way to get Kontakt. Half price off sale price.

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#58
bitflipper
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Re: The wonderful world of VST instruments 2017/09/16 15:38:00 (permalink)
pentimentosound
My original Garritan GPO qualifies me, for the NI crossgrade, which was a surprise.
 
Does that mean the $249 crossgrade price will be $125 during their sale (whenever)?
Thanks
Michael


Sorry, but I think crossgrade (and EDU) discounts do not qualify for sale prices. Still, $249 ain't bad. I think I've paid them more than $700 over the years, $400 for the initial purchase and then 80 to 150 bucks for each of the 4 subsequent versions.


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#59
Glyn Barnes
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Re: The wonderful world of VST instruments 2017/09/16 16:26:09 (permalink)
Sometimes there are sales on crossgrades, that's how I got on the Komplete ladder, but it was some time ago.

These days NI seem more interested in pushing Komplete than the individual applications.

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#60
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