Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe!

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Philip
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RE: Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe! 2008/09/18 08:59:58 (permalink)
SpaceDuck, I don't have all the answers, just my jilted angle on it.

Regarding "omnipotence/omniscience are entirely independent of the event of the universe's creation" ... trying to stay scientific, without even evoking ID or Deism ... another battleground of conscience. Even if ID is obvious, getting close physically or spiritually to the ID is not an easy feat (for me). So for the Ops sake,

Besides pantheistic notions (which also may some hypothetical scientific ground, IMHO); I'm trying to hypothesize that the creation/creature contains 'many' elements of omniscience

(... that the cosmos is all-powerful is already obvious to me as a scientist: observing its apparent infinite breadth and power via the telescope ... drawing honest conclusions from the data)

I was thinking in terms of special/general relativity (past=present=future) ... depending on where you're at in lights path, etc.

But, I did jump the gun with creation's omniscience ... leaving that hypothesis for you to better explain:

Philip  
(Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD)

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#31
Spaceduck
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RE: Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe! 2008/09/18 09:21:42 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Philip

SpaceDuck, I don't have all the answers, just my jilted angle on it.

Regarding "omnipotence/omniscience are entirely independent of the event of the universe's creation" ... trying to stay scientific, without even evoking ID or Deism ... another battleground of conscience. Even if ID is obvious, getting close physically or spiritually to the ID is not an easy feat (for me). So for the Ops sake,

Besides pantheistic notions (which also may some hypothetical scientific ground, IMHO); I'm trying to hypothesize that the creation/creature contains 'many' elements of omniscience

(... that the cosmos is all-powerful is already obvious to me as a scientist: observing its apparent infinite breadth and power via the telescope ... drawing honest conclusions from the data)

I was thinking in terms of special/general relativity (past=present=future) ... depending on where you're at in lights path, etc.

But, I did jump the gun with creation's omniscience ... leaving that hypothesis for you to better explain:


Hey if it's jilted angles we're talking about, I GOTEM RIGHT HERE!!

Man, I'd love to pick your brain on this for a few pages because it seems like you have a lot more knowledge/wisdom/study than I ever got. But maybe a Cakewalk Techniques forum isn't the right place This statement really stimulated my spiritual brain cell:
(... that the cosmos is all-powerful is already obvious to me as a scientist: observing its apparent infinite breadth and power via the telescope ... drawing honest conclusions from the data)


I see what you're talking about; the universe itself (meaning, uh "Everything!") is omniscient,omnipresent,omnipotent and every other omni you can think of. "Omni" itself means "everything", so if we're talking about Everything, then I'd say omni is a pretty good descriptor.

The question then is: Is the universe itself "a living creature"? If so, the OP's question is a paradox and cannot be answered. At least that's my excuse for making a quick exit stage left


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Kalle Rantaaho
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RE: Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe! 2008/09/23 05:46:48 (permalink)
Depending on what killed the population (except for myself) I'd most likely be severely handicapped by some kinds of diseases or mental problems and die rather quickly without having any energy for philosophy. Most likely I'd just walk on as long as I could to see if I really am the only living creature.
post edited by Kalle Rantaaho - 2008/09/23 05:49:13

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Jessie Sammler
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RE: Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe! 2008/09/23 07:00:03 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Kalle Rantaaho

Depending on what killed the population (except for myself) I'd most likely be severely handicapped by some kinds of diseases or mental problems and die rather quickly without having any energy for philosophy. Most likely I'd just walk on as long as I could to see if I really am the only living creature.


+ 1

Having read Stephen King's The Stand at a young age, I have a rather cynical view of life in the early post-apocalypse.
#34
Bristol_Jonesey
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RE: Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe! 2008/09/23 07:21:55 (permalink)
The question then is: Is the universe itself "a living creature"? If so, the OP's question is a paradox and cannot be answered


E.E. 'Doc' Smith approached this subject in his book "The Galaxy Primes", though as usual, Smith's conclusions are a little simplistic.

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mcourter
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RE: Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe! 2008/09/23 10:16:10 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Philip
I was thinking in terms of special/general relativity (past=present=future) ... depending on where you're at in lights path, etc.

As Jorge Luis Borges, among others, put it: from the viewpoint of Eternity, all points in time, past, present, and future, co-exist simultaneously

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#36
Philip
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RE: Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe! 2008/09/23 11:39:54 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: mcourter


ORIGINAL: Philip
I was thinking in terms of special/general relativity (past=present=future) ... depending on where you're at in lights path, etc.

As Jorge Luis Borges, among others, put it: from the viewpoint of Eternity, all points in time, past, present, and future, co-exist simultaneously

Thanks Mark,

I'm trying to deal honestly with the cosmos and eternal things. Scientifically, the 'Big Bang Hypothesis' seems untenable as our observable 20-Billion light-year distanced stars, themselves, seem to have violated the absolute speed-limit of light.

The inevitable scientific cop-out: (super-)string theory just doesn’t deliver on its mathematical premises. String-theory has never been supported by experiment or observation.

I'm a painter, musician, and podiatrist (part-time), and techno-science geek. My observed fact of ‘timely coincidences’, even in the here-and-now, has lead me to hypothesize that the universe must currently and eternally be omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent …

Furthermore most of these observed ‘timely coincidences’ seem redemptive in nature, supporting “lots of new life” (ELP’s album, Pictures at an Exhibition … but, inexcusably, Keith Emerson’s clever reverb-vox and lyrics are usually rather anti-inspirational, cold, and sarcastically nihilistic, IMHO).

To further dampen the sorrow of a sin-infested-soul, AKA myself, despite many scientists, artists, and musicians having 'demonstrated' that God and Redeemer exists, the ‘apparently’ unrequited love’ of God and Redeemer has ‘tortured’ many persons. Psalms and hymns may do well, but better if sung with others (which violates the Op's doleful questionings)

OTOH: "Somebody save Me" (Remy Zero, Smallville theme song) hits on Redemption by fellow persons (a super-hero lover).

If I'm 'the last living creature' in my doleful sorrow, my same daily groans would probably continue (as before), God-ward: "Redeem me", "Save me forever from God's wrath", "Take me to Heaven", "Forgive/cover all my sins", etc.
post edited by Philip - 2008/09/23 11:41:42

Philip  
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#37
yep
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RE: Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe! 2008/09/23 11:43:37 (permalink)
One thing I would definitely do is I would fire up a gigantic wall of Marshall stacks atop the tallest building/overlook I could find and play the riff from "Hell's Bells" over and over.

I would do a lot of thinking about stuff, and probably spend a lot of time writing down things I was thinking about.

The solitude would change a lot of aspects of my outlook, to be sure, but music, the life of the mind, these are things that I find rewarding and worthwhile for their own sake, and I reject the notion that they are only beautiful if there is an audience to hear them.

I would build a big brick oven and keep a wood fire going in it and use that to cook all my food. I would do other impractical things like that.

I'm sure a fair amount of my time would be spent maintaining generators and acquiring gasoline and such. I suppose a lot of the answer depends on the rules of the game-- are there still plants? Does technology still work, just the people are gone? Is it safe to assume that I will be able to live out the rest of my natural life barring some kind of injury or disease?

But setting aside the details and assuming that there are no technical problems to overcome, just the psychic and philosophical ones, I would probably do a lot of travelling, sailing, drinking fancy champagne, playing every instrument in Manny's Music, and generally being on vacation/holiday for the first few weeks, then I suppose I would start to become an amateur scientist, and that the pressing question of my life would be what happened to all the people and how to undo it. Even if some divine voicemail came down and told me there was no hope, I think human nature is such that I would still be looking for some way to preserve/expand/restore living things. I don't think we quit living when we are told that the game is over, I think we quit living when we are dead, if that.

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#38
mcourter
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RE: Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe! 2008/09/23 12:02:11 (permalink)
Philip, the string theory is a pretty little device to cover a lot of "we don't really know." There's absolutely nothing to substantiate such a notion. But that applies to a lot of theorizing and hypothesizing about things that we can't really grasp. I spend very little time contemplating the cosmos and eternity. Those nebulous concepts are so vast, so huge, that finite little intellects like yours and mine can never hope to conceive of its scope, let alone its content. Sure, it's fun to make up ideas about them, just like our forebears assigned meaning to the apparent relationship between the stars that we call constellations. But when scientist make up those ideas, they think it lends the concepts some kind of authenticity because they are "scientists." When, in fact, they too are just making stuff up to explain the inexplicable. And that's enough philosophy for me for one day.
Mark

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SteveStrummerUK
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RE: Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe! 2008/09/23 12:17:11 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: mcourter

Philip, the string theory is a pretty little device to cover a lot of "we don't really know." There's absolutely nothing to substantiate such a notion.

I get what you're saying here Mark - I've read countless books on this stuff and the big problem these guys have IMO is translating the concepts tied up in pages and pages of equations into words and pictures when it quite obviously cannot be done.

I love the way they come up with some promising mathematics that don't quite work in ten dimensions, so they add an eleventh! And so on, for quite a while I expect.

Makes you wonder really, wouldn't it be just marvellous if one day Stephen Hawking announced "Well actually guys, it is 42 you know"

As to the OP, I'd certainly have to do what Yep says with the wall of amps - in fact I'd love to do that before everyone else disappeared!

Then I'd move in to the house next door just to see if the grass really was greener on my side

Steve

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#40
foxwolfen
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RE: Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe! 2008/09/23 23:44:07 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: SteveStrummerUK
As to the OP, I'd certainly have to do what Yep says with the wall of amps - in fact I'd love to do that before everyone else disappeared!

Then I'd move in to the house next door just to see if the grass really was greener on my side

Steve


LOL... there could be a few fun things to do before insanity/dementia sets in (I am sorry, but I need people... I will not pretend I am superhuman). Seeing if I could literally blow the windows out of a building with a stack might be fun. But then again, is not wonton destruction more fun with the element of risk (getting caught)?

Philip I would love to debate you, but this is not the place. I am sure you would not appreciate me ridiculing your faith, so perhaps you and others can have a similar respect and try to keep your beliefs to yourself? There are plenty of forums where you can discuss your religion; designed expressly for that purpose.

The OPs question was "What would you do and how would you feel if"... howbout we try to stick to that?

Cheers
Shad

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#41
Middleman
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RE: Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe! 2008/09/24 00:29:30 (permalink)
I'd get some explosives and just start blowing things up. Buildings, Dams, Bridges. That would be some form of cheap entertainment wouldn't it? I'd find a generator as well. I love Ice Cream and that would require a freezer and electricity.

I'd find a ducks bed, always wanted to try those. I'd go to the nearest Mercedes dealership in a Hummer and just drive over all the cars on the lot, that would be fun.

Next I'd take an ocean liner and drive it around to see some other places. I'd get a go cart and drive along the Great Wall of China. I'd teach myself how to fly jets and just fly from one airport to the next to see how far I could go before all the available planes and gas ran out. I would tour Italy, drink some great wine, France too. Man I think I might just camp out in Southern France and start drinking my way through all the great wineries. If that ran out, I would pop over to Napa. Although you could probably stay in France for the rest of your days and not hit all the great vineyards.

I would stockpile canned goods all over the globe so food would not be a problem. I would learn how to drive submarines and look at the bottom of the ocean. Man, I could keep myself fed and entertained without money or laws as a restriction. Let me see, no boss telling when to jump, kids screaming for dad, wife complaining about not working on the house.

On the dark side, the internet would go down and there would be no TV. That generator would come in handy for watching old tapes and CDs.

Hey, there would be plenty to do, you just have to be a little creative. Oh, I totally forgot picking out the best Martin or Taylor I wanted. If I needed to chat, I would just get a guitar and sing. Hey, if God wants me to be the last living thing, he must have a reason. Maybe it's to give me some peace and quiet.

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#42
Spaceduck
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RE: Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe! 2008/09/24 08:38:02 (permalink)
Hedonism! Hell yeah, that would be my first instinct (all of ours, admit it). But I'm sure it would lose its charm once the novelty wears off. If any of you have seen the movie Groundhog Day, you know what I'm talking about. In it, Bill Murray (who's in a situation sort of like what we're talking about) first reacts by doing all the naughty things he always wanted to do. But he soon gets bored and sinks into a deep depression. I won't spoil the ending, but his final solution was brilliant. One of the most philosophically thought-provoking films I've ever seen.

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SteveStrummerUK
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RE: Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe! 2008/09/24 08:57:12 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Spaceduck

Hedonism! Hell yeah, that would be my first instinct (all of ours, admit it). But I'm sure it would lose its charm once the novelty wears off. If any of you have seen the movie Groundhog Day, you know what I'm talking about. In it, Bill Murray (who's in a situation sort of like what we're talking about) first reacts by doing all the naughty things he always wanted to do. But he soon gets bored and sinks into a deep depression. I won't spoil the ending, but his final solution was brilliant. One of the most philosophically thought-provoking films I've ever seen.

Agreed, but couldn't they have chosen a better song to be playing on his alarm clock radio

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#44
rob.pulman
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RE: Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe! 2008/09/24 09:58:23 (permalink)
I can't see the point in packing up my music - I would still love it no matter how many people were left.

Seeing as my neighbour wouldn't be around anyway, I"d nip in her house and see what she keeps under the bed.

Hope she doesn't use this forum btw.

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#45
mcourter
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RE: Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe! 2008/09/24 11:19:41 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: foxwolfen
Philip I would love to debate you, but this is not the place. I am sure you would not appreciate me ridiculing your faith, so perhaps you and others can have a similar respect and try to keep your beliefs to yourself? There are plenty of forums where you can discuss your religion; designed expressly for that purpose.
Cheers
Shad

Shad, I certainly don't share Philip's (or anyone's) religious beliefs. However, I do defend his right to view the cosmos from his perspective, and to discuss it here. It's my opinion that an open forum can encompass any number of perspectives, including yours. I don't believe he's trying to force his beliefs on anyone here, and he does not ridicule your beliefs, hence he IS showing he same respect you show him by not ridiculing HIS beliefs.
Philosophically yours,
Mark

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#46
rob.pulman
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RE: Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe! 2008/09/24 12:44:41 (permalink)
Well strictly speaking, this is a forum for obtaining and sharing information about recording and audio production techniques.

So that being the case, the question should never have been posted here or anywhere else on the Cakewalk forums.

That in turn, tells me that none of the answers posted here, should be posted here either, religious or not.

Even though I've posted an answer myself lol.

Edit - damn that means I've posted twice to this question now.

post edited by rob.pulman - 2008/09/24 12:47:04

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#47
Axiology
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RE: Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe! 2008/09/24 13:41:03 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: mcourter

But when scientist make up those ideas, they think it lends the concepts some kind of authenticity because they are "scientists." When, in fact, they too are just making stuff up to explain the inexplicable.
Mark

No, scientific idea's are supported by evidence. The scientific, rational approach is the only way we have of knowing anything with any degree of certainty.

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#48
Philip
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RE: Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe! 2008/09/24 14:27:08 (permalink)
the question should never have been posted here or anywhere else on the Cakewalk forums

Uh? Rob, most Sonar techniques comes from 'the real you', psyche, soul, brain-waves, or whatever you want to call the entity-source. We've been over the fallacies of technology vs. music before; most of us have concluded that technology (technique) must give way to subjective concerns: i.e., Un-requited-love, art, inspiration, sex, dance, or other genre-forming motifs --> technique.

IOWs: Most rock songs seem to have cosmic and/or metaphysical underpinnings guiding their techniques.

I realize DreamZ, an accomplished musician, started this thread with a bit of metaphysical conjuring. But she, like many others here, seem to infer that her metaphysical genre must ultimately guide her technique. DreamZ has written many other hyper-technical techniques-questions on EQ-filters and such.

Not to oversimplify: Cosmic invisible things --> The human will --> human affection (musical technique/genre). Who am I to ax out the reality of musical technique in any way ... (Albeit, note my disclaimer, below)

Her cosmic question is certainly a welcome addition to my genre and technique(s). I'd consider to allow this thread and any other metaphysical threads to remain, while not dogmatically propagandizing our metaphysical genres on each other. Love of creature(s) and/or love of creator(s) seem the underlying 2 genres governing music creation (AKA technique), IMHO.

As far as suggesting that one's metaphysical genre-technique is somehow inappropriate or off-topic ... that may be arbitrary or inappropriate. Do I love all techniques and genres? Of course not!

Consider YES vs. ELP. Both are extremely cosmic in their techniques: the former band was cosmically-playful and 'non-human'/'angelic' with vocals.
OTOH, ELP is/was nihilistic and sarcastic (anti-Christian, except for 'Pictures at an Exhibition') but brought strong cosmic dance into their technique, via Moog and drum synths. Both, Yes and ELP lyrics had cosmic distractions governing their techniques, IMHO ... and would never have produced without such motifs.

Again, please consider the disclaimer (below). You have a right to be innane, spacy, incoherent, poetical, etc. ... with your lyrical or other instrumental techniques, so does DreamZ!

Of course CW can monitor, ban, re-categorize, etc. however they want.
post edited by Philip - 2008/09/24 14:31:39

Philip  
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#49
mcourter
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RE: Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe! 2008/09/24 14:30:17 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Axiology


ORIGINAL: mcourter

But when scientist make up those ideas, they think it lends the concepts some kind of authenticity because they are "scientists." When, in fact, they too are just making stuff up to explain the inexplicable.
Mark

No, scientific idea's are supported by evidence. The scientific, rational approach is the only way we have of knowing anything with any degree of certainty.


Uh huh. So, what you're saying is that science does not speculate............

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#50
jamesg1213
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RE: Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe! 2008/09/24 14:36:37 (permalink)
So...not such a big fan of ELP then Philip? Personally I never got any sarcasm/nihilism kind of vibe from their music, just a lot of bombast..I liked their quieter moments 'Take A Pebble', 'Lucky Man'..

Sorry to digress, back to the question. When I was about 12 and heavily into Wargaming I would fantasize about being the only one left on the planet, and being able to plunder the model shops for thousands of die-cast 1/25 scale Napoleonic figurines, and have gigantic battles on rooftops...what a cool kid I was eh?

So I'd probably do that then, as a nod to the 12-year old James.

 
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#51
SteveStrummerUK
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RE: Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe! 2008/09/24 14:38:33 (permalink)

Mark, Andrew

You're both saying the same thing really.

Theory + Repeatable Experiment = Accepted Fact


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#52
rob.pulman
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RE: Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe! 2008/09/24 15:56:29 (permalink)
Philip - you seem to have missed my point slightly.

In the posts just above my previous post, there was a discussion (I think you were involved in it, with mcourter, foxwolfen?), about whether it was right or not for posters in this thread to discuss their faith, or lack of it.

I was just pointing out that it is pointless to debate whether it is acceptable or not to discuss faith in this thread - because the question itself is off-topic.

How can the suitability of answers in this thread be debated, when it is equally right to debate the suitability of the question?

That was my point, even though it was somewhat disguised.

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RE: Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe! 2008/09/24 16:35:40 (permalink)
Whereas I'm inclined to think that even though the topic may have been such-and-such to begin, there is no reason to restrict the conversation to that topic. As in any conversation, the topic may wander where it will, as among friends

A few guitars, a couple of basses, a MIDI controller, a mandolin, a banjo, a mic, PodFarm2
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#54
tcaylor
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RE: Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe! 2008/09/24 17:40:30 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Jessie Sammler

ORIGINAL: Kalle Rantaaho

Depending on what killed the population (except for myself) I'd most likely be severely handicapped by some kinds of diseases or mental problems and die rather quickly without having any energy for philosophy. Most likely I'd just walk on as long as I could to see if I really am the only living creature.


+ 1

Having read Stephen King's The Stand at a young age, I have a rather cynical view of life in the early post-apocalypse.


Ah, my favorite Stephen King book and the first book I'd ever read where main characters were not guaranteed anything.

To the OP's original statement, it may not be too different from experiencing your own personal version of Castaway, the movie with Tom Hanks portraying the Fedex employee marooned on an island. It not quite the same though, as he was aware that others existed, just unsure if he would ever be rescued. Attrition would get you if disease or accidents didn't. How could you stay motivated when being a productive, caring member of a community no longer means anything?

Tom

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#55
Axiology
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RE: Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe! 2008/09/24 17:59:29 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: mcourter


ORIGINAL: Axiology


ORIGINAL: mcourter

But when scientist make up those ideas, they think it lends the concepts some kind of authenticity because they are "scientists." When, in fact, they too are just making stuff up to explain the inexplicable.
Mark

No, scientific idea's are supported by evidence. The scientific, rational approach is the only way we have of knowing anything with any degree of certainty.


Uh huh. So, what you're saying is that science does not speculate............



No, speculations are held in check by rigorous standards of evidence.

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#56
foxwolfen
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RE: Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe! 2008/09/24 21:17:42 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: mcourter

Whereas I'm inclined to think that even though the topic may have been such-and-such to begin, there is no reason to restrict the conversation to that topic. As in any conversation, the topic may wander where it will, as among friends

Well, thats true, and I can find no fault with that argument. But among friends, there are things that should be left off the table, which usually encompasses religion and politics, as they almost invariably lead to grief. I think this topic can be discussed without getting into abstract, unprovable ideology.

But then again, you make a fair point that in someways pondering these points might well be an important aspect of the discussion at large.

I only ask that all belief systems (and science is one of them) be respected as equally valid, without resorting to mockery of things that we may not fully understand (whether it be what dimensions are in theoretical quantum mathematics or the nature of God). Perhaps I was wrong, bit I did detect a hint of that.

Cheers
Shad
post edited by foxwolfen - 2008/09/24 21:19:44

A scientist knows more & more about less & less till he knows everything about nothing, while a philosopher knows less & less about more & more till he knows nothing about everything.

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#57
foxwolfen
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RE: Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe! 2008/09/24 21:31:33 (permalink)
It is interesting that this topic was explored by an New Zealand film (about to be remade) called "This Quiet Earth". Ultimately they did not try to explore it fully. Much like in "I am Legend", the fellow who found himself suddenly alone in the world, did eventually find others. It would have been interesting to see where they might have gone if they did not feel the need to add other characters (although I am legend had "creatures" that made the person not alone).

I have been rethinking about whether I would keep playing and composing music. I might well continue simply to stave off boredom, and who knows, it might sooth some loneliness, (but it might also add to it).


A scientist knows more & more about less & less till he knows everything about nothing, while a philosopher knows less & less about more & more till he knows nothing about everything.

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#58
blueoneblue
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RE: Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe! 2008/09/24 22:06:58 (permalink)
Good point, Fox. There are many times when I wish no one else existed, or responsibilities, so I could just be let alone and make music, but I wonder if I still would want to. I remember when I was a kid I used to fantasize about being the only human alive (I guess that explains alot about me), but in those fantasies I never took into consideration electricity, gas, ect.

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#59
foxwolfen
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RE: Theory: You are the last living creature in the universe! 2008/09/24 22:59:15 (permalink)
Or that complete isolation from any living thing will have profoundly negative consequences that will in all likelihood lead to an emotional break. I find it interesting that some of the comments would seem to discount the effect that this would have on us emotionally. Yet there is so much evidence to support the notion that in all likelihood, there is no sane person alive who would not be profoundly and irrevocably damaged by the experience. We are, in the end, social beings who are largely dependent on others for our emotional health and sense of well being (like it or not).

Cheers
Shad


A scientist knows more & more about less & less till he knows everything about nothing, while a philosopher knows less & less about more & more till he knows nothing about everything.

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#60
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