This looks like a new version of Project 5...

...or at least what it could have been

Look at the similarities to the Project 5 UI, this is what P5 likely would have been with more features >watch<

Yeh, it would be nice though if there was a universal file format for envelope/automation export/import so that you can port everything to whatever you want to use it in. How do you get around this? Do you redraw your automation?

Looks like I got my answer on the 'replace synth' functionality in X1 (from Brandon Ryan's post):

"Just to be clear, SONAR X1 does not currently have Project5-like "replace synth" function but it is something we plan to implement at some point down the road (hopefully not too far down the road)."

my thoughts: I will upgrade to X1, and I will hope that it's one-tool MIDI editing promise will actually be true in practice the way it already was years ago in P5. 

three_eyed_otter


Has anybody found a strong replacement contender for P5?

As far as Geist goes, there have been some forum request for Fxpansion to turn into a DAW, but it's probably not likely.   It's definitely a fine way to crank out some beats quickly, do some sound design, etc.

have  a good one
3Eo

I have looked at a few apps, but still have not found any that let me move as quickly as P5 does.

One feature that I use with quite some regularity in P5 is the ability to set the midi input (keys) from your synth to only play certain notes. I can very easily split my synth into two or three different instrument inputs, just by varying which octave I'm using on the synth.

I will change to something else someday, but it looks like I will have to give up a some useful tools to make the change.

I keep upgrading my Sonar Producer software.....and I'm forcing myself to learn and use it, and it has improved, but I constantly find myself writing with P5, it's the SUPERIOR composer, even if I'm not sure I can spell superior....heh

I am guessing here but I think Cakewalk struggled to cope with the development requirements of the SONAR product family *and* P5.
 
A bigger issue IMO was likely the target market for P5. When P5 1.0 was announced  back in January 2003 (gulp) The target market for it then was...
 
Reason 2.0
Live 2
FL 3.5/ 4
 
The description Cakewalk gave for P5 bears that out IMO…

"A complete, open-platform, virtual studio environment; combining a suite of professional soft synth instruments, samplers, pattern-based sequencing and editing tools, automatable effects, ACID-format loop editing, live mixing"



That is not a description I would have given to SONAR (2.2) or Cubase at the time. So P5 it was a very good fit for SONAR while competing very nicely with the other 3 products I listed above. Indeed I would say P5 1.0 was a superb offering and IMO better in most aspects compared to the three apps above (at the time).  Bear in mind Live 2 had no MIDI features (or hardly any) No Record + Reason Combo back then and FL was nothing like it is today especially as of beta 9.9 (today).

 
P5’s feature set was very exciting looking at the competition back then. One can only imagine where it would be today…up to version 8 or 9 if the development of  P5 had continued.
 
Moving target…
 
As time went on Image line and Ableton in particular started to add features that put their products into a far more competitive position with SONAR. I think this caused a major re think within Cakewalk as they likely could already see the crossover feature wise (P5 with SONAR) at the time (which was OK) but that crossover would likely increase and potentially  become a problem.

1. Do you update P5 every year and have another in house product that rivals your flagship?

2. Do you update P5 less frequently so it does not overtake the flagship feature wise but competes better with future versions of Live and FL?

3. Is the Virtual Studio (VI Rack) market big enough to chase from a resource point of view with the year on addition of features to Live and FL that really continue to increasingly rival Sonar in some areas?

I think the Bakers made a very difficult decision to axe P5 because of these reasons. I think they would have loved to keep developing it. But IMO the market for P5 was evaporating fast. Maybe this is why FL and Live have also moved on since then. Those apps now boast features that elevate them far beyond the more simple pattern based /  MIDI or AUDIO  focused apps they were back then. I think Cakewalk concluded perhaps correctly that they will be in a far better position to compete with the new emerging DAW market if they added the P5 feature set into SONAR.
 
X1 Vs P5
No version of SONAR has really pulled off replacing P5 for me until...X1. The pre X1 SONAR UI was just not cutting it. P5’s UI was slick and super easy to navigate. It’s Inspector was inspired. Nice and wide, not narrow and awkward like SONAR pre X1. I Just could not see SONAR as a replacement for P5 any time soon.


But the X1 UI is simply exquisite IMO. You can even do crazy stuff like docking the Inspector and the Browser next to each other. It’s almost like an anything anywhere UI. It is still difficult to believe that X1 really has SONAR somewhere in there! :-)
I think the Inspector in X1 is better than P5’s. The Step sequencer is deeper in X1 but UI wise not necessarily as pretty as P5’s but in every other area X1 is just too slick for me to miss P5. Throw in Geist (for more wider drum options) and really I can side step P5 for the first time now.
 
Geist delivered the two key features I so hoped P5 would have…
 
1.            X64 support
2.            VSTi format. Geist does not need Rewire as it can be plugged into any host as a VSTI.
 
  
Any time I fire up P5 I am reminded of how fantastic the workflow is. With X1 I think I can get not only the same workflow but beyond that now (even without Geist). I still love P5 and wish it was still developed but sadly its development is no more. Maybe it can be resurrected as an iOS app (hint hint Cakewalk) as that might work well but then again a smaller cut down version of X1 might be better.
 
Still Geist fills in any areas X1 does not (regarding P5) so for me while I am so pleased I still have a copy of P5, I am even happier that with no dev for it in future I don’t need it as much as I use to. 


Still some work to be done
It seems X1b will deliver on these promised fixes. X1 certainly needs it. That could really round off the X1 release quite nicely IMO. Perhaps another patch is planned as well.

I will try when the demo comes out is to load a VSTi on a channel and then see if there is any 'replace synth' option...if they still haven't added this basic workflow element (that is in P5 and most other sequencers I've used/use), then I won't be upgrading.

 
There is no replace synth option. But X1b is pretty cool.