Thistle and Jade

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malcolmb
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2012/02/05 04:46:22 (permalink)

Thistle and Jade

Several people commented on my last offering here (Lament for Love Lost) that it seemed to have an Oriental flavour alongside the Celtic. Unintentional but I could hear why they thought that. So I decided to pen a little piece where the Oriental / Celtic flavour was entirely intentional (with a little New Age thrown in for good measure)!
 
Featuring Chinese Violin (the Erhu), imagine a kilted Celtic Kung Fu Master striding over the Yangzte Plains thinking of his Bonny Highland Lassie working in a Paddy Field!
 
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It does have a 'slow movement' towards the end (ie. Chinese film score, falling Lotus petals, etc!), so don't think you have slipped into another track!
 
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42 Replies Related Threads

    eric paul
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    Re:Thistle and Jade 2012/02/05 14:19:27 (permalink)
    hi malcolmb very well done and clean realy nice sounds on the keys enjoyed  eric
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    malcolmb
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    Re:Thistle and Jade 2012/02/05 14:34:40 (permalink)
    Hi Eric - Sincere thanks and so pleased you like this piece.

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    morenoise
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    Re:Thistle and Jade 2012/02/05 15:04:46 (permalink)
    Hi Malcolm, absolutely lovely , this is so cinematic. I know you're a rocker at heart but for me the drums are a bit loud.  The slow movement is absolutely beautiful. Very well done, Sir.
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    malcolmb
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    Re:Thistle and Jade 2012/02/05 15:14:15 (permalink)
    Hi Rik - Sincere thanks. I suppose I was thinking a story line as I wrote this, which probably accounts for the cinematic aspect. As for the drums, yep, I agree. I was aiming for a sort of 'driving' beat (heavy footed Celt, kilt akimbo, stomping through the paddy field!) but perhaps we Celts aren't quite that heavy footed (except when playing soccer and rugby!).

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    morenoise
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    Re:Thistle and Jade 2012/02/05 15:23:14 (permalink)
    Hi malcolm, I really shouldn't comment on drums, just not a fan . Ireland v Wales was nice to watch this afternoon. ; )
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    notnat
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    Re:Thistle and Jade 2012/02/05 16:27:20 (permalink)
    very cool Malcolm...  My favorite part starts at 2:58...
     
    I think the drums would work better if there were a cool bass part... otherwise maybe a bodhran drum instead... 
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    malcolmb
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    Re:Thistle and Jade 2012/02/06 04:31:45 (permalink)
    Hi Rik - Wasn't it a great game. Interesting comparison with the other game over the pond! (PS - 9 out of 10 stars is more than I ever managed at school! - Sincerely appreciated).
     
    Hi Frank - Sincere thanks and so very pleased you like it. I very much agree about the bass part. As for the bodhran, I did infact start writing this piece with a bodhran. Unfortunately, none of my drum VSTs sounded even vaguely right and my two bodhran loops didn't fit either. So I ended up with the drum kit. Silly really, as a few weeks ago, I had eight bodhran players in my house banging away - I should have recorded them!
     
    Best Regards
    Malcolm
     

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    kennywtelejazz
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    Re:Thistle and Jade 2012/02/06 07:16:52 (permalink)
    Hi Malcomb,

    Very Lovely Music , real nice and easy on the ears

    I fell into your story line hook line and sinker ,

    I'm 1/2 Scottish  w lot of years doing traditional  Martial arts
    ( admittedly rusty do to a tumble on 2 wheels ), &  I'm dreaming about a lassie  one that I haven't met yet


    OK kwtj , lets  focus ....get back to the music......... back to the music

    I loved everything about this tune including the beat of the drums , but not the sound of the drums themselves
    ( makes sense ? )

    when the drums kicked in I started salivating because I thought the tune was gonna feature some Garry Moore type of heavy stuff .
    btw..that was on me not you .

    the only crit that I could offer of substance would be I think some Asian
    type of percussion would bring it up to the next level
    an occasional gong and some of what they use in movies as fighting drums , maybe even the wind chime type of tube things that have the Oriental tuning  

    i did give this a few listens and I feel this tune is very good
    Kenny


     
    post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2012/02/06 07:25:15

                       
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    BigJGTR
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    Re:Thistle and Jade 2012/02/06 07:58:27 (permalink)
    Great tune! I love to experiment with asin style myself from time to time, I might have to kick off the dust on my electronic samisen!
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    malcolmb
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    Re:Thistle and Jade 2012/02/06 08:21:35 (permalink)
    Hi Kenny - Sincere thanks and so pleased you like it - I'm very much like you - half Celtic (Scottish/Irish) although I have never quite understood how that gels with my other half (Flemish/Anglo Saxon)! I also did some unarmed combat but was always more of a danger to myself than anyone else! And I am still looking for that Lassie - I can dream!

    Anyway, to the music - and those drums! I totally agree with everything you suggest. The rather odd 'New Age' opening actually originated from me trying to find a drum VST that fitted what I was thinking. As all my music is composed by notation in Staff View using VSTs, I went through every ethnic drum VST I have and wasn't happy with any of them. I went through a range of Indian, African and Chinese / Japanese VSTs and every one was just a dull thud! So eventually I gave up, used New Age pads and a bell for the intro, found a Studio Instruments drum pattern that worked and got on with writing the music! The next piece that is in my head at the moment requires Japanese 'Thunder drums'! Who knows how that piece is going to end up! But I do totally agree with you and it looks like I am going to be spending some time scouring the net to find some decent ethnic drums VSTs - preferably free!

    Hi BigJGTR - Sincere thanks and so very pleased you like this piece. Electric samisen - Wow - now that I have to hear!

    Best Regards
    Malcolm

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    kennywtelejazz
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    Re:Thistle and Jade 2012/02/06 10:27:13 (permalink)
    Hi Malcomb,
    I see you have HS 7 XL ,
    I'm not sure what 's in there , but I can tell you a work around
    I have session drummer 2 from SONAR
    the nice thing about it is I can create my own kits from samples that I have either doctored or created totally from scratch

    what I am trying to suggest here is ,
    if you have a drum plug that will let you load up each instrument w samples you have created or even simply downloaded you might be able to get her done pretty easily

    i don't know if Studio Instruments will let you custom make a kit

    some of the Cake plugs that I know that will are
    Session Drummer 2, Cyclone , Velocity ..to name a few that I have done this with

    lets say you have a drum plug that will let you load up what you want per instrument
    you can make some really interesting things happen this way
    the beauty is you can create your own unique one shots  using the editing aspect of you DAW
    especially when the plug will let you tune each sample to what ever you want
    the ones I mentioned will


    with out getting to deep on this ,
    I've  loaded  some drum plugs up to have tom toms playing bass guitar parts  , high hats playing conga  samples ....
    the list could go on and on
    my tune  Hum T _ Dum Tee has stuff like that going on

    Kenny

    post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2012/02/06 10:54:33

                       
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    #12
    Lynn
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    Re:Thistle and Jade 2012/02/06 10:59:18 (permalink)
    Great piece, Malcolmb.  I love instrumentals that have a beginning, middle, and end.  Your melodies are beautiful, and the transitions were very dynamic.  I don't know if you have Dimension Pro or not, but it has numerous ethnic percussion presets that would fit into this song very well.  But, it still works as is.  Well done.

    All the best,
    Lynn

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    malcolmb
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    Re:Thistle and Jade 2012/02/06 14:39:58 (permalink)
    Hi Kenny - Sincere thanks for the help. Really appreciated that you have taken the time to put together such helpful advice. Home Studio has a reduced range of plugins in comparison to Sonar and unfortunately none of the ones you mention are included. That said, I understand the principle you explain and am sure that with some work, I can achieve the same effect with what I do have. I have picked up some VSTs around the net and 'Independence Free' is a possibility - I see it even has a Taiko drum and a lot of scope to customise! Of course the alternative is to upgrade - I suspect I cannot put that off for much longer! Looks like I shall be busy! Again, very many thanks.

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    malcolmb
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    Re:Thistle and Jade 2012/02/06 14:42:23 (permalink)
    Hi Lynn - Sincere thanks and so pleased you like this piece. Unfortunately Home Studio only has Dimension LE - which is a very cut down version of Pro with virtually no ethnic drums. As I said to Kenny above, I suspect I am just going to have to upgrade - I hope my Bank Manager is in a very good mood!

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    timidi
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    Re:Thistle and Jade 2012/02/06 21:11:35 (permalink)
    Nice job on this Malcomb. It doesn't sing anything about Pie though:)
    The strings really come across nice. Very well done.

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    CLEAN
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    Re:Thistle and Jade 2012/02/06 22:31:06 (permalink)
    malcomb - beautiful is all I can say - put me in a very good place.

    Thank you.

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    malcolmb
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    Re:Thistle and Jade 2012/02/07 04:10:47 (permalink)
    Hi Tim - Sincere thanks and so pleased you like it - even without the singing Pie!

    Hi Mark - Thank you so very much. Really pleased you like this piece. We could all do with being in that good place!

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    geeare1
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    Re:Thistle and Jade 2012/02/07 12:35:56 (permalink)
    Hi Malcolm,

    This is great. Love the melodies and the mix/production sounds great.

    Excellent.

    -gr

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    malcolmb
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    Re:Thistle and Jade 2012/02/07 14:33:07 (permalink)
    Hi Gary - Sincere thanks and so very pleased you like it.

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    evadianepug
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    Re:Thistle and Jade 2012/02/07 16:26:49 (permalink)
    Very interesting, Malcolmb.  It is kinda trippy to listen and hear both the celtic and asian influences.  A very pretty sound and well produced!

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    malcolmb
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    Re:Thistle and Jade 2012/02/08 04:51:05 (permalink)
    Hi Warren - Sincere thanks. There does seem to be an affinity between Celtic and Oriental music. Perhaps this has something to do with the ancient Celts travelling east at least as far as Tibet - although I am not aware of any Chinese restaurants serving Haggis!

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    mgh
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    Re:Thistle and Jade 2012/02/08 17:36:34 (permalink)
    the opening reminded me a lot of Arcana at the start but then got a lot more Celtic and upbeat. understand the drum issue. liked the changedown around 3 minutes.

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    malcolmb
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    Re:Thistle and Jade 2012/02/09 04:03:08 (permalink)
    Hi Mark - I must admit I had not heard of Arcana before but now having listened to their music, I do take your point (and take it as an enormous compliment - I could never be that good!). So pleased you like the changedown - my favourite part too. I am tempted to either extract that part and develop it as a separate piece or develop it within the piece itself - this could turn into a movie score! Now all I need is a director, film crew, actors, a thousand extras, a few million pounds .........! In my dreams!

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    lhansen
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    Re:Thistle and Jade 2012/02/10 12:09:15 (permalink)
    Beautiful transistion @ 3:00 Malcolmb!  Stir fried General Tso's chicken meets 2 year old, buried haggis.. I like the blend!! GPO has a World Instrument/Percussion pack/add-on that I'm just starting to dig into. I love the composition on this and would've liked to have heard some world percusiion in lieu of the standard drum kit, but it is what it is. :)

    You had 8 bodhran players all at once in your home and you didn't put 'em to work???!!!

    Once again Malcolmb..I really enjoyed this piece and the thought process behind it all!!

    BTW - If all goes as planned, I should be visiting Scotland once again come October and drive James and his family to the brink of insanity... or drink.


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    #25
    malcolmb
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    Re:Thistle and Jade 2012/02/10 15:13:04 (permalink)
    Hi Larry - Sincere thanks and so pleased you like this piece. I'm sitting here just trying to imagine what General Tso's Chicken and 2 year old buried haggis would taste like! Just the sort of combination that anyone in Glasgow after the pubs closed would love! Me too!

    All of my VSTs are ancient and I really must do some updating - my GPO version was probably used by Mozart! Love the sound of that Percussion pack - Gimme, Gimme!

    As for those bodhran players (!), I held my fourth annual Wassail in my home which is why they were there. Plus three guitarists, an accordionist and a ukulele player. And of course a few dozen others who thought they could sing in tune! I was serving mulled farmhouse cider to get the evening going (rough farmhouse cider, nutmeg, ginger, cinnamon, apples, oranges ..... and onion! (an ancient English Wassail Bowl recipe!)). Which perhaps explains why I totally forgot to record the evening singalong! Probably a good thing!

    Have a great time in Scotland. October is a good time to visit as the midges have moved to warmer climes for the winter! Single malt, haggis and being woken in the morning by a bagpipe lament - bliss!

    Best Regards
    Malcolm
    post edited by malcolmb - 2012/02/10 15:20:29

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    #26
    MannyNY
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    Re:Thistle and Jade 2012/02/11 11:25:05 (permalink)
    Malcolm,
     
    Totally agree about the common “something” in the Celtic/Oriental tunes. I hear it in some of the music that comes out of the Andes (and elsewhere) in South America as well – very curious!
     
    Love this piece – you have that composer’s gift. I like the way this transitions from somber to hopeful to aggressive (almost jaunty in a Magnificent Seven sort of way).
     
    Really nice material. As mentioned by others a few of the sounds (drums) could be improved etc. but we are all working with limitations – be it cash, personnel, time constraints – this is super and your efforts pay off. 
    #27
    itsadequate
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    Re:Thistle and Jade 2012/02/11 12:37:49 (permalink)
    The melodies are very well written. I agree that it sounds very suitable for a film. My six year old son came into the room when this was on and said it was 'nice Chinese music, but the drums don't sound very Chinese'.

    It would benefit from being played on real acoustic instruments, but clearly that would be very expensive unless you've got an orchestra worth of friends :-)
    Best wishes, Malcolm
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    paulo
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    Re:Thistle and Jade 2012/02/11 13:12:31 (permalink)
     I've listened a few times now. The music is quite beautiful, love the change around 3:00, but the drums are just not doing it for me - they just sound out of place in comparison to the rest. I think I understand what you are aiming for, but to me it's not really working as it is and would IMO sound better with something a bit different - both in terms of sound and style.
    #29
    malcolmb
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    Re:Thistle and Jade 2012/02/11 15:08:45 (permalink)
    Manny, Malcolm and Paulo - Sincere thanks and so pleased you like this piece.

    Hi Manny - Totally agree with you about Andes / South American music and Celtic / Oriental. Odd. Perhaps commonality of instruments has some bearing - certainly the Flute in various forms is a common factor. Much of this music does originate from the countryside / uplands and its simplicity is its beauty. As for those drums, you have hit the issue perfectly. Making do with what you have. I am sure I will come back to this piece after I have spent some money on better drum VSTs - now all I have to do is learn to use them!

    Hi Malcolm - Clearly your son has musical talent, no doubt inherited from you. He certainly hit the core isssue straight away. The stupid thing is that I do have a range of friends who play 'ethnic' drums from Indian to Celtic to Native American. But on the rare occasion I get them into a room with their drums, they all decide to play what they want, not what I want even when I bribe them with cider! So it's back to the VSTs for me!

    Hi Paulo - You are so right. I can hear in my head exactly what should be there and just can't recreate that sound with my notation and limited VSTs. It will come eventually - I just hope it doesn't take too long!

    Best Regards
    Malcolm


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