Helpful ReplyThoughts on new M/B

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fireberd
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2016/11/09 08:51:00 (permalink)

Thoughts on new M/B

I'm in the "very early" stages of considering upgrading to possibly an i7 6700 or 6700K.  I've been looking at Z170 motherboards and see a couple (an ASRock and an ASUS) with Thunderbolt 3.  I don't have a need, right now, for Thunderbolt and may or may not in the future.  But, I'm wondering if I should consider Thunderbolt or just go without it.?????
 
Thanks/Jack
post edited by fireberd - 2016/11/16 06:35:56

"GCSG Productions"
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#1
fireberd
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Re: Thoughts on new M/B with Thunderbolt? 2016/11/09 13:29:16 (permalink)
I got some feedback from an internet friend that has an ASRock with the Thunderbolt 3 and he says lots of driver complaints with the ASRock.  That eliminates ASRock if I were to go with Thunderbolt.
 
Here is his comments
 
The Asrock Extreme7+ (which I have on the machine I'm typing on right now) has an add-in for Thunderbolt/USB typeC. It's the focus of a plethora of end-user driver issues and complaints. Methinks this technology isn't yet fully-baked. You can always add a PCIe device to support it anyway, and you may be better-served to purchase without and consider an add-in later on. IMHO, FWIW

"GCSG Productions"
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Thoughts on new M/B with Thunderbolt? 2016/11/09 14:20:54 (permalink)
curious what Jim will say about this topic - I hope he chimes in
 
having migrated to the MOTU AVB series I will definitely consider thunderbolt for the next DAW (which is still a while away as I'm nowhere near hitting the bounds with the current setup)

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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Thoughts on new M/B with Thunderbolt? 2016/11/09 14:21:14 (permalink)
curious what Jim will say about this topic - I hope he chimes in
 
having migrated to the MOTU AVB series I will definitely consider thunderbolt for the next DAW (which is still a while away as I'm nowhere near hitting the bounds with the current setup)

GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER
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Maarkr
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Re: Thoughts on new M/B with Thunderbolt? 2016/11/09 19:02:57 (permalink)
yes, i think the technology is new and could use a cpu generation of experience before I invest in it... and while the bandwidth available is greater than other connections, music generation still has plenty of throughput using USB 2, so it would take a new generation of AD/DA conversion to make use of it.  I recently upgraded my interface to the mk4 (USB 2) because I don't think there will be much change for a couple of years at least.

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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Thoughts on new M/B with Thunderbolt? 2016/11/10 02:00:39 (permalink)
Maarkr
I recently upgraded my interface to the mk4 (USB 2) because I don't think there will be much change for a couple of years at least.




I went with the AVB because of its extendability (chaining devices) and also because they promise even lower latency once you go with thunderbolt ...
 
however, i do also wonder whether using LAN ports to connect your audio device (like the AVB offers on the Mac) will come before thunderbolt is established in the win10 world ???

GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER
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fireberd
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Re: Thoughts on new M/B with Thunderbolt? 2016/11/11 06:31:01 (permalink)
After several other exchanges and posts on this subject on the tenforums.com I've decided Thunderbolt won't be part of a new motherboard.  If I want/need it in the future a PCIe Thunderbolt card can be used.
 
But its still what M/B do I get.  I need lots of USB ports and some USB 2.0 ports as the MOTU I have doesn't "play good" with USB 3.0 (at least on my present system).  I could use Firewire with the MOTU but that would require using a Firewire PCIe card as none of the Z170 M/B's I've looked at have Firewire.

"GCSG Productions"
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Thoughts on new M/B with Thunderbolt? 2016/11/11 07:46:32 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby abacab 2016/11/11 13:03:40
Thunderbolt-3 support is very early in development under Win10.
Right now, only MOTU has true "PCIe via Thunderbolt" drivers available (for the larger AVB units).
 
Thunderbolt-3 is working fine... but you've got to have all the above in place:
  • Running one of the latest Z170x or X99p chipset motherboards that provide Thunderbolt 3 via USB-C port
  • Win10 up-to-date
  • Thunderbolt-3 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt-2 adapter
  • MOTU AVB audio interface with Thunderbolt port
If I were getting a Skylake motherboard with Thunderbolt-3, it would be neither of the above.
 
Thunderbolt provides access to the PCIe bus.  Nothing more... nothing less
You (of course) have PCIe slots in a modern machine... if you need to run ultra low round-trip latency.
Thunderbolt will not out-perform PCIe.  Under the best of circumstances, performance will be similar.

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
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fireberd
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Re: Thoughts on new M/B with Thunderbolt? 2016/11/11 15:15:26 (permalink)
I dumped the idea of the "cutting edge" motherboards.
 
I ordered (today) an ASRock Z170 Extreme 6+ motherboard and a 6700K
 
I only considered Thunderbird since I was getting a new/upgraded motherboard.  After posts here and on the tenforums.com I woke up and abandoned that idea.
 

"GCSG Productions"
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Maarkr
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Re: Thoughts on new M/B with Thunderbolt? 2016/11/11 19:29:17 (permalink)
Fireberd, pls post your opinion on your upgrade after you get it going.  I'm on the fence about upgrading also. 

Maarkr
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fireberd
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Re: Thoughts on new M/B with Thunderbolt? 2016/11/12 06:53:33 (permalink)
It will be a week or two.  The parts won't be here until next week.
I'll be doing a "clean" install of Win10 as I want to change from standard BIOS to UEFI BIOS and GPT format.  A clean install may skew, slightly, the outcome.  My current Win 10 is an upgrade from 8.1.
 
I may have to install either a USB 2.0 PCIe card or Firewire card for my MOTU 896mk3 Hybrid as it does not "play well" with the USB 3.0 ports on my current system. 

"GCSG Productions"
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fireberd
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Re: Thoughts on new M/B with Thunderbolt? 2016/11/12 18:24:52 (permalink)
In preparation for the upgrade, I found instructions on the tenforums.com on how to convert a non UEFI disc to GPT/UEFI.  The current Z77 motherboard I have is UEFI capable but I've never used that.  I am going to use the UEFI on the new motherboard.  I wasn't sure it could be done, it was easier that I thought. It will save me doing a clean install with the new motherboard to get the UEFI. 
 
If anyone is interested here is the instructions that I used.
http://www.tenforums.com/drivers-hardware/31765-converting-mbr-gpt-efi-boot.html#post483385
 

"GCSG Productions"
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fireberd
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Re: Thoughts on new M/B with Thunderbolt? 2016/11/16 06:35:08 (permalink)
All the parts for the upgrade arrived yesterday.  Motherboard, CPU, Memory and power supply.  Now to get a free day that I can do the upgrade as I'm going to use my existing case, SSD's and optical drives.   I have my "grounding wrist strap" that I always use when working on PC's to help avoid static electricity problems.

"GCSG Productions"
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Thoughts on new M/B with Thunderbolt? 2016/11/17 10:10:07 (permalink)
fireberd
I have my "grounding wrist strap" that I always use when working on PC's to help avoid static electricity problems.



If you discharge yourself while working... and don't get silly touching ICs, you don't need to wear those wrist straps.
I haven't worn one of those since I built my first PC.  Twenty five years and thousands of machines ago...  

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
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fireberd
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Re: Thoughts on new M/B with Thunderbolt? 2016/11/17 15:58:52 (permalink)
Murphy's Law applies to me. I'll still wear it   LOL

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fireberd
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Re: Thoughts on new M/B with Thunderbolt? 2016/11/18 08:48:58 (permalink)
Murphy's Law has struck.  I was going to reuse my existing BeQuiet case but I would have problems installing the H100i radiator and fans. So, I ordered a Corsair Carbide 330R "quiet" case. There are other quiet cases but I wanted front panel I/O and most have the I/O jacks on top which is no good for my installation.
 
It wasn't a real disaster as it appears a friend wants my old PC. He has an old Vista machine and wants to upgrade. 

"GCSG Productions"
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Thoughts on new M/B with Thunderbolt? 2016/11/19 10:31:24 (permalink)
Sometimes dealing with parts can be interesting.
  • Open the water-cooler and find the included mounting screws are way too long.
  • Go to attach the fans and find that the screw holes on the radiator *don't* align with the fans.  Have to break out the file... and become a custom fabricator.

Best Regards,

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fireberd
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Re: Thoughts on new M/B with Thunderbolt? 2016/11/19 13:15:58 (permalink)
The plastic cover over the top was the problem.  I would have had to "break" mounting tabs to get the top cover off.  I had installation problems with this case when I first got it and finally got everything installed after "cursing like a sailor".  I should have just bought a new case to start with for the upgrade.
 
The new case will be here Tuesday from newegg.  Next Wednesday will be new PC build day.
No recording sessions scheduled until Nov 30th.
 
I have the old PC hardware reinstalled (and checked out) in the old case.  Will be making "one good one out of two" as we are going to use the Optical burner drives and hard drive from his old HP PC.  As soon as he purchases Win 10 I can start on his.

"GCSG Productions"
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Thoughts on new M/B with Thunderbolt? 2016/11/23 11:51:08 (permalink)
Jim Roseberry
Sometimes dealing with parts can be interesting.
  • Open the water-cooler and find the included mounting screws are way too long.
  • Go to attach the fans and find that the screw holes on the radiator *don't* align with the fans.  Have to break out the file... and become a custom fabricator.




  Sometimes this is a failure in extra research when it comes to cooling. I think the PC cooling market has become impractical.  I had that situation above.  Lucky I bought it at a Frys store and took it back.

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fireberd
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Re: Thoughts on new M/B with Thunderbolt? 2016/11/26 15:28:54 (permalink)
Well, things are looking up, finally.  Got the new system up and running.  Finishing up some file transfers right now to a different hard drive as I have a 3TB drive and the BIOS thinks its dying (its not).  Only problem I've come across so far.  As reported on the tenforums.com,  I have a "digital entitlement" and was able to use the Win 10 OS drive from old PC and it is listed as activated on the new PC.
 
ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero Z170 motherboard (I'm not a gamer but it has more USB ports on rear panel that I need).
i7 3770 CPU
GSkill TridentZ 16GB DDR4 3400 memory
EVGA Supernova 750G2 fully modular power supply
Corsair H100i V2 liquid cooler
Corsair Carbide 330R Quiet Case.
1394 PCIe card with T.I. chipset
 
I reused the Samsung 850 EVO 500GB SSD (OS) and conventional hard drive (has Sonar Projects on it) and two LG optical drives (that will burn audio CD's at 8X).

"GCSG Productions"
Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. 
ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release
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abacab
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Re: Thoughts on new M/B with Thunderbolt? 2016/11/26 20:33:16 (permalink)
fireberd
Well, things are looking up, finally.  Got the new system up and running.  Finishing up some file transfers right now to a different hard drive as I have a 3TB drive and the BIOS thinks its dying (its not).  Only problem I've come across so far.  As reported on the tenforums.com,  I have a "digital entitlement" and was able to use the Win 10 OS drive from old PC and it is listed as activated on the new PC.


 
Awesome!  Bob Bone recently reported that Windows 10 gracefully accepted a motherboard change he performed on his Windows 10 PC.  No activation issues either!  It's good to know that a clean install is no longer required to upgrade a Win 10 system

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