Thunderxxx er um... Thunderbolt latency?

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slartabartfast
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2018/01/25 19:52:05 (permalink)

Thunderxxx er um... Thunderbolt latency?

I found this interesting statement:
"More Money For Lower Latency
Another way to minimize latency, if you record bands and musicians frequently, is to get one of the newest Thunderbolt interfaces that can provide under 2 msec true round-trip latency. This will cost you quite a bit since you also need a computer capable of using Thunderbolt, but if it’s your business to record bands, it should pay for itself quickly."
 
https://sonimus.com/home/entry/tutorials/58/audio-latency-tutorial.html
 
I am at a loss to figure out how the admittedly somewhat faster connection speed compared to say USB 2 is going to produce a massive decrease in the usable latency. My understanding is that transmission speed is generally a minor factor in the total latency issue. 
 
Thanks for the correction abacab
post edited by slartabartfast - 2018/01/26 18:55:57
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    abacab
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    Re: Thunderbird latency? 2018/01/25 19:59:43 (permalink)
    Thunderbird? 

    DAW: Cakewalk by Bandlab 2018.06; Studio One 3 Pro; Tracktion Waveform 9; Ableton Live 10  Other: AIR AIEP; Akai VIP; BIAB; Ignite; iZotope Iris 2; Miroslav; Notion; Overture; SampleTank 3; SynthMaster; Syntronik; Waves  OS: Win10 Pro x64 1709  System: Homebuilt Asus; i3 3.4Ghz; 8GB DDR3; Intel HD Graphics; Dual Monitors; Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 250GB; PCIe FireWire  Audio: M-Audio FW-410  Controllers: A-300PRO; Alesis VX49; CME Xkey  Hardware: Roland JV880; JV1080; XP-30; Alesis QS-6; Casio CZ-1000; Fender P-Bass

    #2
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re: Thunderbird latency? 2018/01/25 22:26:24 (permalink)
    The best USB-2 audio interfaces yield rock-solid total round-trip latency of 4.3ms (48-sample ASIO buffer size/44.1k)
     
    With Thunderbolt, you can achieve PCIe level performance.
    This doesn't translate into more processing power (DSP) for EFX.
    I've compared performance of the Lynx AES-16e vs. RME Fireface UFX (side-by-side). 
    Using DAW Bench, the machine could run the exact same number of plugins with each interface.
     
    The main advantage to PCIe is that you can take the ASIO buffer size down to 32-samples (some even allow going down to 16-samples).  At that point, you're at 2ms (or below) total round-trip latency.
    To effectively work at these settings (especially with heavy loads), your machine will need to be a monster.
     
    If you think Cubase 9.5's Audio Performance meter's "Realtime Peaks" go crazy at a 64-sample ASIO buffer size, wait till you see the ballistics at a 32 or 16-sample ASIO buffer size.   
     
    Thunderbolt provides access to the PCIe bus.
    Under ideal circumstances, you'll achieve PCIe level performance.
    Think of Thunderbolt as "external PCIe".
     
    The only real advantage of Thunderbolt is the ability to achieve sub 3ms total round-trip latency.
    If that matters to you, Thunderbolt (or PCIe) is the solution.
    Note that the Apollo series (even though great interfaces) offer about the same round-trip latency as the RME Fireface UFX (USB-2)... due to the onboard DSP processing capability.
     
    If you're looking for sub 3ms total round-trip latency, the Presonus Quantum and MOTU AVB series (connected via Thunderbolt-3) should be on your shortlist.  Note that you'll also need a Thunderbolt-3 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt adapter.  Apple makes one for ~$50.  We've had very good luck (testing under many different circumstances/machines/etc) with the Apple adapter.
     
     
     
     

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #3
    HighAndDry
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    Re: Thunderbird latency? 2018/02/20 17:37:46 (permalink)
    Hate to ask the same common questions, But what are some good current motherboards that support thunderbolt? And yes I know that I need the above mentioned adapter

    ASRock Z97 Pro 4 Motherboard
    Chipset : Intel Z97
    Intel i7 4790k
    32 gb Ballistix (crucial) 1600 DDR3 ram

    Corsair 330R case Corsair Rm750 ultra quiet power supply
    Win 10 64 bit

    Motu 1248 AVB
    Mackie Onyx Blackbird 16 x16 FW
    Sonar Platinum

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    BenMMusTech
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    Re: Thunderbird latency? 2018/02/21 04:46:57 (permalink)
    There are still some issues regarding PCs and Thunderbolt from what I've been reading...because in PC land a Thunderbolt port is usually labeled USB c 3.1. Whilst, from what I read most of the thunderbolt interfaces will work with PC thunderbolt, there may be some compatibility issues. I've done some research - not enough to be certain. I'm hopeful of getting one later this year.

    One of the exciting prospects that thunderbolt offers, is the ability to use virtual effects - guitar rig for example in a live situation. Finally freeing us from DSP cards and interfaces. This is what I'm most excited about mostly.

    Benjamin Phillips-Bachelor of Creative Technology (Sound and Audio Production), (Hons) Sonic Arts, MMusTech (Master of Music Technology), M.Phil (Fine Art)
    http://1331.space/
    https://thedigitalartist.bandcamp.com/
    http://soundcloud.com/aaudiomystiks
    #5
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