Sidroe
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Time to house clean?
Hi, guys,
I know that leaving old versions of Cakewalk products is a good idea and I know that the actual program itself takes little space on the hard drive. In light of that, I now have 8.5, X1, X1 Expanded, X2 and all those plugins. I wonder how many of you when you upgrade may consider cleaning all those versions off and clean install X3 if it works all right.
It is really becoming a chore to keep up with all these versions and especially the plugins. I don't really use the older versions at all but you know as well as I do that if you uninstall one version it can cause chaos with your working version because of shared plugin locations between versions. I'm just interested to know if anyone recommends dumping these older versions off and doing a clean install of X3 after testing it to make sure it works. I have a pretty good idea of what the answers will be. Just would like to see what you all have to say.
Sonar Platinum, Sonar X3e, Sonar X2a , Sonar X1 Expanded and 8.5.3 (32 and 64 bit), Windows 10 on a Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop with i7 @ 2.4 quad and 8 gigs of RAM and secondary WD 1 Tb drive, Windows 10 desktop, Asus i5 @ 3.2 quad, 12 gigs RAM, 1 Tb drive, 1 500 gig drive, MOTU 24io, 2 Roland Studio Captures, Saffire 6 USB for laptop, Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 mixer, Alesis Monitor 2s, Event BAS 20/20s, Roland Micro-Monitor BA-8s, and 45 years worth of collecting FX, Mics, Amps, Guitars, and Keyboards!
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BlixYZ
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Re: Time to house clean?
2013/09/27 09:30:26
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I don't see a reason to remove older versions. I delete the shortcut and then I forget they even exist. They're not in my way and I'm unconcerned about the space they take up.
It's bad enough that I have to contend with it when I migrate to a new machine- I would NEVER bring it upon myself intentionally!
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scook
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Re: Time to house clean?
2013/09/27 09:35:44
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If plug-in clutter is the issue, create a custom layout. If a custom layout is not satisfactory exclude the plug-ins in the plug-in manager.
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Beepster
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Re: Time to house clean?
2013/09/27 09:36:09
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I'm about to reinstall X2 but also want to have X1 and some of it's components on board as well. I was kind of thinking that if I install X2 first then it will get a chance to set itself up better because that's the main program I'll be using THEN install X1. However I saw someone mention this may not be the greatest thing to do and it might actually make things worse.
I guess I just want to keep the X1 and X2 installs completely separate if at all possible so they aren't sharing any folders/registry or other stuff I don't fully understand yet. I'm probably being insane as usual but I'd really like to figure out if this is possible. Maybe with all the Bakers running around they can take a moment and offer some insight on this type of multi version install.
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Atsuko
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Re: Time to house clean?
2013/09/27 10:41:07
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I share the same concerns of Sidroe. I remember that the X2's clean install was very hard, specially when you have a lot of plugins, sound samples, etc... I think that, this time, I'm gonna install X3 over X2 and have both in my machine, although I don't like the idea.
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Sidroe
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Re: Time to house clean?
2013/09/27 10:50:42
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It just seems like my list of plugins grows longer with the third party plugs as well. It feels like I'm setting myself up for trouble down the line somewhere with having all these dlls spread everywhere. If I were the Plugin Manager in Sonar I would be saying what is this guy doing. LOL
Sonar Platinum, Sonar X3e, Sonar X2a , Sonar X1 Expanded and 8.5.3 (32 and 64 bit), Windows 10 on a Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop with i7 @ 2.4 quad and 8 gigs of RAM and secondary WD 1 Tb drive, Windows 10 desktop, Asus i5 @ 3.2 quad, 12 gigs RAM, 1 Tb drive, 1 500 gig drive, MOTU 24io, 2 Roland Studio Captures, Saffire 6 USB for laptop, Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 mixer, Alesis Monitor 2s, Event BAS 20/20s, Roland Micro-Monitor BA-8s, and 45 years worth of collecting FX, Mics, Amps, Guitars, and Keyboards!
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Beepster
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Re: Time to house clean?
2013/09/27 10:54:25
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Isn't there a way to create a parent folder for all that stuff that you can point the scanner to? I don't know if the scanner will dig down through a couple folder levels but I remember I got PO'd trying to get BFD to work and I think I created a new folder and just drug stuff into that. That was a long time ago though.
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joeb1cannoli
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Re: Time to house clean?
2013/09/27 11:04:56
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I Did an experiment with UAD plugins that worked. I imagine it should work with any VST.
I was tired of all the non-authorized UAD plugs showing up all the time and the plugin manager seemed tedious to me.
I copied all of my authorized plugins to a new folder and used that as the VST scan destination for the UAD stuff. It worked flawlessly.
I recommend copying the dlls. to a new folder instead of moving them so if you have any issues you can always guide the VST scan back to the original folder.
http://soundcloud.com/joe-b-10 Windows 10 Pro x64, 6 core, Core i7 , 16GB ram Sonar Platinum , Komplete 8, Ozone 8 Presonus Studio 192 and DP88 ,uad-2 solo
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scook
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Re: Time to house clean?
2013/09/27 11:05:10
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Sidroe
It just seems like my list of plugins grows longer with the third party plugs as well. It feels like I'm setting myself up for trouble down the line somewhere with having all these dlls spread everywhere. If I were the Plugin Manager in Sonar I would be saying what is this guy doing. LOL
Don't install them. If installed, use the exclude feature in the plug-in manager, they simply won't be displayed. If not excluded, don't add them to the plug-in layout. Moreover, practically every installer provides the ability to pick what is installed and where to install it.
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Del
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Re: Time to house clean?
2013/09/27 11:21:50
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Beepster
I'm about to reinstall X2 but also want to have X1 and some of it's components on board as well. I was kind of thinking that if I install X2 first then it will get a chance to set itself up better because that's the main program I'll be using THEN install X1. However I saw someone mention this may not be the greatest thing to do and it might actually make things worse.
I guess I just want to keep the X1 and X2 installs completely separate if at all possible so they aren't sharing any folders/registry or other stuff I don't fully understand yet. I'm probably being insane as usual but I'd really like to figure out if this is possible. Maybe with all the Bakers running around they can take a moment and offer some insight on this type of multi version install.
Beepster I have somewhat the same issue. Because of a major hard drive failure I lost both X1 and X2, s I had to re-download the files from Cake. But for whatever reason; I re-installed X2 and I guess forgot all about X1 and didn't re-load it. Now I am kicking myself as there are parts of X1 that I want and am wondering if I re-load X1, it won't mess up the X2 setup and files. Thanks for any response that will help with this issue?
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Beepster
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Re: Time to house clean?
2013/09/27 11:25:04
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Hi, Del. If you just want some of the plugins and other components without installing X1 you can use the Custom Install feature when installing X1 and just select what you want from the list but leave off the actual X1 program. If you do want X1 IDK. Cheers.
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brundlefly
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Re: Time to house clean?
2013/09/27 11:37:17
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☄ Helpfulby Del 2013/09/27 12:22:07
Recent versions of SONAR don't seem to damage anything when you uninstall them - only unique files not shared by older versions get removed. But Pre-X1 versions could be troublesome. The last time I uninstalled a version (S6 or 7, I think), I made backups of the Shared folders, and there were files missing after the uninstall, so I restored them, and everything was fine. Also, registry branches and appdata folders get left behind that you would want to remove if you really want to "clean house".
As for getting versions to be completely independent, it might be possible with some creative file relocation and registry hacking after the fact, and/or by installing each version to a unique partition, but the risk of causing problems with one version or another are not worth the benefit - if there is one. Also, it's possible that a new version updates a shared file with stability or feature improvements or bug fixes that an old version can benefit from. You wouldn't get that benefit with totally independent installations.
Personally, I would just trust that the Bakers know what's best for continuity and stability, and leave everything where it is. The only thing I mess with are plug-in installations when the installer insists on putting things on my system drive or creating new Vstplugins paths. And that can get tricky. Sometimes all you need to do is relocate the VST DLL and re-scan, but there have been situations where I've had to rewrite multiple registry paths to get a plug-in to follow my relocation of its samples, etc.
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cryophonik
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Re: Time to house clean?
2013/09/27 11:37:53
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I have 8.5 and X2 installed. I didn't use X1 much, and the few projects I started with X1 have all been ported to X2 now anyway, so there's no need for X1 on my computer. I find that X2 sometimes has problems with projects created in "pre-X" versions, so I keep 8.5 installed for those rare occasions that I want to go back to an old idea, usually just to export the MIDI and audio so that I can recreate the idea in X2.
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Beepster
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Re: Time to house clean?
2013/09/27 11:44:26
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brundlefly
Recent versions of SONAR don't seem to damage anything when you uninstall them - only unique files not shared by older versions get removed. But Pre-X1 versions could be troublesome. The last time I uninstalled a version (S6 or 7, I think), I made backups of the Shared folders, and there were files missing after the uninstall, so I restored them, and everything was fine. Also, registry branches and appdata folders get left behind that you would want to remove if you really want to "clean house".
As for getting versions to be completely independent, it might be possible with some creative file relocation and registry hacking after the fact, and/or by installing each version to a unique partition, but the risk of causing problems with one version or another are not worth the benefit - if there is one. Also, it's possible that a new version updates a shared file with stability or feature improvements or bug fixes that an old version can benefit from. You wouldn't get that benefit with totally independent installations.
Personally, I would just trust that the Bakers know what's best for continuity and stability, and leave everything where it is. The only thing I mess with are plug-in installations when the installer insists on putting things on my system drive or creating new Vstplugins paths. And that can get tricky. Sometimes all you need to do is relocate the VST DLL and re-scan, but there have been situations where I've had to rewrite multiple registry paths to get a plug-in to follow my relocation of its samples, etc.
Very helpful. Thank you.
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WallyG
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Re: Time to house clean?
2013/09/27 12:04:10
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☄ Helpfulby Del 2013/09/27 12:23:00
Beepster
I'm about to reinstall X2 but also want to have X1 and some of it's components on board as well. I was kind of thinking that if I install X2 first then it will get a chance to set itself up better because that's the main program I'll be using THEN install X1. However I saw someone mention this may not be the greatest thing to do and it might actually make things worse.
I guess I just want to keep the X1 and X2 installs completely separate if at all possible so they aren't sharing any folders/registry or other stuff I don't fully understand yet. I'm probably being insane as usual but I'd really like to figure out if this is possible. Maybe with all the Bakers running around they can take a moment and offer some insight on this type of multi version install.
When I installed X2 on my music room computer, the installation went well. I then loaded some of the plug-ins from X1 that were missing from X2. No problems. Walt
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Sidroe
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Re: Time to house clean?
2013/09/27 12:35:43
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No one seems to mention the third party plug-ins whose installer will not give you the option of where the dll goes. Some of those plugs have a dll that when moved won't work anymore. I have had several instances of this happening. I think beepster has helped immensely with his post explaining about the registry tweaks. I get nervous when it comes to messing around in the registry. I had to do some registry tweaks a while back with a Rapture le to full Rapture situation gone awry.. The fix was simple but it still is scary in there!
Sonar Platinum, Sonar X3e, Sonar X2a , Sonar X1 Expanded and 8.5.3 (32 and 64 bit), Windows 10 on a Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop with i7 @ 2.4 quad and 8 gigs of RAM and secondary WD 1 Tb drive, Windows 10 desktop, Asus i5 @ 3.2 quad, 12 gigs RAM, 1 Tb drive, 1 500 gig drive, MOTU 24io, 2 Roland Studio Captures, Saffire 6 USB for laptop, Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 mixer, Alesis Monitor 2s, Event BAS 20/20s, Roland Micro-Monitor BA-8s, and 45 years worth of collecting FX, Mics, Amps, Guitars, and Keyboards!
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scook
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Re: Time to house clean?
2013/09/27 12:47:02
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Sidroe
No one seems to mention the third party plug-ins whose installer will not give you the option of where the dll goes. Some of those plugs have a dll that when moved won't work anymore.
That has nothing to do with cleaning up old SONAR installs. While I might perform registry edits, I do not recommend them as a rule because I have idea how comfortable others are with editing the registry. The fastest way to break Windows is blow up the registry. There is an alternative to registry changes that can provide essentially the same result. The DOS command mklink (option /j) can be used to link the various plug-in folders into one directory tree. The same command can be used to relocate multisample directories (or any other directory) to different drives.
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lawp
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Re: Time to house clean?
2013/09/27 13:02:36
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joeb1cannoli
I Did an experiment with UAD plugins that worked. I imagine it should work with any VST. I was tired of all the non-authorized UAD plugs showing up all the time and the plugin manager seemed tedious to me. I copied all of my authorized plugins to a new folder and used that as the VST scan destination for the UAD stuff. It worked flawlessly. I recommend copying the dlls. to a new folder instead of moving them so if you have any issues you can always guide the VST scan back to the original folder.
++
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Beepster
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Re: Time to house clean?
2013/09/27 13:21:11
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If you create a restore point before doing registry edits can't you just revert back if something goes wrong? I've recently started experimenting with restore points on my laptop but I notice some things don't seem to want to revert back. I'm trying this type of thing out on my not so critical systems before I started fiddling around with the big rig(s).
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JonD
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Re: Time to house clean?
2013/09/27 16:19:46
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Beepster
If you create a restore point before doing registry edits can't you just revert back if something goes wrong? I've recently started experimenting with restore points on my laptop but I notice some things don't seem to want to revert back. I'm trying this type of thing out on my not so critical systems before I started fiddling around with the big rig(s).
I would never rely on Restore points... As you've indicated, they are just not reliable. Better and easier to simply make a backup of the registry (The option is there in the registry editor) - you can backup just the tree you are editing, or the whole registry - then if something goes wrong later, you can restore just as easily.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Time to house clean?
2013/09/27 17:05:51
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JonD
Beepster
If you create a restore point before doing registry edits can't you just revert back if something goes wrong? I've recently started experimenting with restore points on my laptop but I notice some things don't seem to want to revert back. I'm trying this type of thing out on my not so critical systems before I started fiddling around with the big rig(s).
I would never rely on Restore points... As you've indicated, they are just not reliable.
Better and easier to simply make a backup of the registry (The option is there in the registry editor) - you can backup just the tree you are editing, or the whole registry - then if something goes wrong later, you can restore just as easily.
I agree with JonD - Restore points are notoriously unreliable, especially with the Registry. But like he said, it's so simple to back up your registry - to a thumb drive preferably, so you can always reload it from there, even if you're forced (due to something blowing up in the registry) to load Windows in Safe Mode
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Beepster
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Re: Time to house clean?
2013/09/27 17:08:17
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Thanks, guys. Ah, Windows. Always an adventure.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Time to house clean?
2013/09/27 17:13:21
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Beepster
Thanks, guys. Ah, Windows. Always an adventure.
Would you rather the alternative? 
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Beepster
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Re: Time to house clean?
2013/09/27 17:32:21
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Bristol_Jonesey
Beepster
Thanks, guys. Ah, Windows. Always an adventure.
Would you rather the alternative?
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BENT
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Re: Time to house clean?
2013/09/27 17:49:36
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Time to clean house… Well Sidroe! You’re welcome at my place any time day or night. I’ll leave the bucket-mop, vacuum cleaner etc, out for you. lol  But seriously, tell me you wouldn't dream of removing (a relatively stable) X2 and earlier, until you have bench-tested X3. That’s far far too risky.
post edited by BENT - 2013/09/27 18:08:26
I have empirical evidence this is true... (Bender told me!) Cakewalk by BandLab, Splat and other DAW's PC = Win 10 64 Bit, i7 3770, 16Gb RAM, 256GB Samsung 2.5’ 840 PRO SATA6GB/s SSD 1, and 2 x 2Tb Internal, Monitors = 2 24” Samsung SA450 and 1 20” Dele Edirol = Octa-Capture-UA1010, Quad-Capture-UA55, PCR-500, Berringer 2 x FBC 1010 Alesis Control Pad KRK monitors
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Guitarpima
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Re: Time to house clean?
2013/09/27 17:57:02
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I have every version since version 8 of Sonar. Using X2, I just create custom layouts for my plug in menus. I could un-install all the previous versions but it's not affecting my machine however, I would not un-install version 8. Sonar 8 was the first install on this install of Windows 7 and there is a problem that crops up if I were to un-install Sonar 8.
When I import midi files into Sonar, I prefer to start a project with the midi file. I right click on the midi file and select, "Open With" and then select Sonar. I don't know why but if the first Sonar program is no longer on my current windows install, this command does not work as it is looking for Sonar 8 and not the most recent Sonar X2. I never figured out a fix for this so I just leave all the versions of Sonar installed. I prefer to use import midi files using the open with command better than importing into Sonar while Sonar is open as using the open with command brings all the midi files settings with it. Importing a midi file into Sonar, while it's open, does not import key, key changes, tempo, tempo changes and whatever else is in the midi file.
So I just leave them installed and use custom layouts. Actually, this says a lot for Windows 7 as I haven't had to do a full OS re-install since installing Windows 7. Even with XP, and it was a good OS as well, I still had to do a re-install occasionally.
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Sidroe
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Re: Time to house clean?
2013/09/27 18:26:51
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Hey, Bent! I would never take anything off without testing X3 first. It just seems like my Cakewalk folder is getting full of stuff I don't use much anymore if at all. That folder just looks full of clutter but I will not change anything until I am completely happy with the way X3 turns out. I am glad this thread has had a great amount of discussion and picked up a few tips as well.
Sonar Platinum, Sonar X3e, Sonar X2a , Sonar X1 Expanded and 8.5.3 (32 and 64 bit), Windows 10 on a Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop with i7 @ 2.4 quad and 8 gigs of RAM and secondary WD 1 Tb drive, Windows 10 desktop, Asus i5 @ 3.2 quad, 12 gigs RAM, 1 Tb drive, 1 500 gig drive, MOTU 24io, 2 Roland Studio Captures, Saffire 6 USB for laptop, Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 mixer, Alesis Monitor 2s, Event BAS 20/20s, Roland Micro-Monitor BA-8s, and 45 years worth of collecting FX, Mics, Amps, Guitars, and Keyboards!
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mudgel
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Re: Time to house clean?
2013/09/27 18:41:22
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I wouldnt install an older version after a new version. I think youll get some conflicts in shared folders and preferences.
Also there are octen minor tweaks in plugins and with each new version they are recompiled.
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Lesthanzero
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Re: Time to house clean?
2013/09/30 02:25:50
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All great comments. I recently upgraded from Sonar X1c running on XP SP3 at 32 bits to X2 on W7 Pro 64 bits, so that necessitated a disk wipe, although I backed up all data on a separate disk. I think for the small amount of plugins that didn't make the migration fully it'll be easier for me to just redo the tracks than go through what may be a risky reinstall of X1 over X2.
It would be nice if one of the Bakers could comment on this.
SONAR Platinum Windows7 Pro 64-bit Intel i7-6700 3.4 GHz 32 Gb RAM WD 1 TB 7200.1 (program) Seagate Barracuda 1Tb 7200.1 (audio) WD 1 TB 7200.1 (streaming) Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 Dell 23" monitors (2) +++++++++ Native Instruments Ultimate Komplete 9 XLN Audio Addictive Drums 2 XLN Audio Addictive Keys Digital Music MX-8 StudioLogic SL-990 Roland JV-1010 Emu Planet Earth Roland U20 Yamaha DX7 with E!
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harmony gardens
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Re: Time to house clean?
2013/09/30 04:27:20
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I had one side of my SATA Raid drive go out in my old computer, so I had to get a new one. It's a blessing in disguise, in a way. My old Edirol interface didn't get support after Windows XP and for several other reasons, I just stayed with Sonar 7 on the old system. It was kind of nice for me, because I honestly don't enjoy all the messing with settings, installing software and tinkering under the hood of the computer, I would rather make music. I wish I could afford to hire someone to do all that for me. oh well,,, I'm just smart enough with computers to know where to get help if I need advice, so I trudge along. lol
One of the worst purchases I ever made, for me, was a UAD-1. I had problems with the IRQ's and it never ran right. I also found other plugs that to my ears were just as good, so I didn't really use them that much.
It might be OT here, but do you guys think there is any resale value to it? I am planning on pulling the card out of the old system, but my new computer only takes low profile pci cards. I also know they have moved on to UAD-2 and other things. I have the original box and everything that was with it. What do you guys think I should do??
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