ba_midi
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Re:To bounce fast, or REAL TIME!?
2011/03/18 13:32:40
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i just never would have guessed that so many prefer live bounce. it has caused me to think. and this can be dangerous. [/quote
I don't "prefer" realtime bounce. I do use it when I want to or need to.
But I also like to "bounce around" while bouncing down lol
post edited by ba_midi - 2011/03/18 13:33:47
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UnderTow
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Re:To bounce fast, or REAL TIME!?
2011/03/18 13:47:11
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BlixYZ
i just never would have guessed that so many prefer live bounce.
It isn't always a question of preference. That is why I mentioned the Virus TI. The Virus TI VST plugin does not support fast bounce for obvious reasons. For anything else I always use fast bounce. it has caused me to think. and this can be dangerous.
Watch out where you point that brain! ;-) UnderTow
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chuckebaby
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Re:To bounce fast, or REAL TIME!?
2011/03/18 19:41:56
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brundlefly
i bounced down to mp3 today i tried a real time bounce and it was awful...cracks,pops..even time stretched....i didnt listen to the final product..i stopped it half way through ....so for exsperiment purposes i did a fast bounce..no problem at all..the quality was great on the final product
I was going to mention this as a particularly obvious example of how the constraint of real-time audio streaming can cause problems with bouncing. The process of MP3 encoding is not compatible with small buffers. If you increase your buffer size to something over 512 samples, you should be able to get a clean real-time bounce to MP3, but it's easier and more reliable to just fast bounce it.
+1
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rbowser
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Re:To bounce fast, or REAL TIME!?
2011/03/19 00:14:10
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bitflipper
Randy, the missing notes problem during a fast bounce can probably be fixed by increasing the BounceBufSizeMsec variable in aud.ini.
AH, that's right - On my previous computer, I'd adjusted that variable - but haven't done that on my newer set up. I forget what setting is good - I have it still at the default "0." Is 100 an appropriate setting to try? - I do remember though that when using Kontakt Player instruments, I couldn't get any setting to work without skipping some notes, so when using that, I'd do a slow bounce or audible bounce. Randy B.
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Bub 
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Re:To bounce fast, or REAL TIME!?
2011/03/19 02:27:47
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rbowser
I used to fast bounce everything until I ran across problems with *certain* soft synths which do the job better in real time. By "better" I mean that in fast bounce mode, with these particular synths, notes would be skipped, sometimes whole sections.
RB
I have a project that's skipping notes, or more precise, drum beats. It's really weird because I can mix/edit the project and play it and all sounds fine. I tried to export it several times using fast bounce and it misses the same drum beats every time. It's a simple project too ... 2 guitar tracks, 1 bass, and 1 instance of Session Drummer 3. If I open the project in 8.5.3 it doesn't happen when I export/fast bounce. I saw Bitflipper's response to you. I'll give that a try.
post edited by Bub - 2011/03/19 02:30:11
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ba_midi
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Re:To bounce fast, or REAL TIME!?
2011/03/19 02:38:33
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Bub
rbowser
I used to fast bounce everything until I ran across problems with *certain* soft synths which do the job better in real time. By "better" I mean that in fast bounce mode, with these particular synths, notes would be skipped, sometimes whole sections.
RB
I have a project that's skipping notes, or more precise, drum beats. It's really weird because I can mix/edit the project and play it and all sounds fine. I tried to export it several times using fast bounce and it misses the same drum beats every time.
It's a simple project too ... 2 guitar tracks, 1 bass, and 1 instance of Session Drummer 3.
If I open the project in 8.5.3 it doesn't happen when I export/fast bounce.
I saw Bitflipper's response to you. I'll give that a try.
Also - some plugins don't like the 64bit Double Precision Engine.
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...wicked
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Re:To bounce fast, or REAL TIME!?
2011/03/19 03:09:21
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ba_midi
Also - some plugins don't like the 64bit Double Precision Engine. Oh right, that's very true
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Kev999
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Re:To bounce fast, or REAL TIME!?
2011/03/19 03:22:49
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Fast Bounce doesn't usually work properly when using NI Battery 3. Since I tend to use Battery in most projects, I have now gotten into the habit of unticking Fast Bounce every time.
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ba_midi
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Re:To bounce fast, or REAL TIME!?
2011/03/19 03:54:11
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Kev999
Fast Bounce doesn't usually work properly when using NI Battery 3. Since I tend to use Battery in most projects, I have now gotten into the habit of unticking Fast Bounce every time.
Funny you say that. I've been using Battery3 in a few projects lately along with a number of other big cpu plugins (Kontakt4, Idependence 3, etc) and did fast bouncing on a few of these over the last 2 or 3 days without issue on any of these plugins. Try turning off the Double Precision engine and make sure you have the latest updates for your plugins. FWIW, I'm using the latest Battery3 beta and it's been running great.
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rbowser
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Re:To bounce fast, or REAL TIME!?
2011/03/19 10:47:58
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ba_midi
Also - some plugins don't like the 64bit Double Precision Engine.
Good one, Billy - Turning off the 64bit engine works for a lot of things that won't bounce well otherwise. I hadn't used audible bounce until not long ago. I had noticed some synths work fine with fast bounce, some don't--BUT then I discovered that slow bounce, with fast bounce un-checked - is much slower than real time - So, that's when I started bouncing in real time when needed. RB
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djjhart@aol.com
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Re:To bounce fast, or REAL TIME!?
2011/03/19 11:01:01
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The weird part for me is in 8.5.3 , I never had a problem with bouncing , exporting, , or using the 64bit DP engine, And nothing has changed accept Sonar. The big question is will any of this issue's be fixed, in future updates, Or do the select few need to buy a new Mother Board to get original functionality back...(  ) Jokin...
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Bub
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Re:To bounce fast, or REAL TIME!?
2011/03/19 11:46:00
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djjhart@aol.com
The weird part for me is in 8.5.3 , I never had a problem with bouncing , exporting, , or using the 64bit DP engine, And nothing has changed accept Sonar.
Same here. On the other hand, some things work a lot better for me in X1. For example, I have a project with 16 tracks, Pro Channel (Comp/EQ) going on every track, Guitar Rig Pro 4 on a bus and on the bass track, True Piano, Session Drummer 3, Sonitus Reverb on 3 tracks, PX 64 strip on 3 drum outputs, and I can record lead guitar parts real time with no problem at all, no tracks frozen, everything going real time, and no noticeable latency. Yet a simple thing like bouncing a 4 track test project won't work. :) DOH! 
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brundlefly
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Re:To bounce fast, or REAL TIME!?
2011/03/19 12:33:34
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I discovered that slow bounce, with fast bounce un-checked - is much slower than real time - So, that's when I started bouncing in real time when needed. What does that mean, exactly? To me non-fast bounce and real-time are the same thing. Nothing should bounce slower than real time. 
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rbowser
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Re:To bounce fast, or REAL TIME!?
2011/03/19 12:56:29
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brundlefly
I discovered that slow bounce, with fast bounce un-checked - is much slower than real time - So, that's when I started bouncing in real time when needed.
What does that mean, exactly? To me non-fast bounce and real-time are the same thing. Nothing should bounce slower than real time.
You know, Brundle - That's a good question. This probably gets back to how after migrating to my newer computer, I didn't adjust the .ini file to match what I had earlier. I've still had the bounce buffer line at the default Zero. I'll be bouncing some tracks today, so need to change that, as was pointed out to me recently - I'll try setting that to 100 to start with--sound good, or should I try a different setting? Meanwhile, I mean that un-checking the fast bounce option, but without checking the audible bounce option so it's on - it takes longer than with that audible option on.--! - So, "regular" bouncing is slower than real time. - It's the bounce buffer issue, don't you think? RB
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brundlefly
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Re:To bounce fast, or REAL TIME!?
2011/03/19 13:37:08
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That's weird. Even with audible bounce disabled, your Now time should still run in real time while bouncing with Fast Bounce disabled. How much slower is it, and what does your SMPTE time show during the bounce?
My experience with BounceBufSizeMsec is that I initally had to to increase it to 4ms to resolve a consistent freeze failure with one particular synth track with my default audio buffer of 2ms. After that, I bumped it up to 20 to have a little "cushion against future issues. I tried bouncing different projects with settings up to 200, and didn't really see a performance benefit, so I left it at 20.
50's probably fine, but beware of the bug where Bitbridge will add an empty buffer to beginning of a rendered track with some bitbridged synths, making the track effectively play late by that amount. It only seems to affect some synths (BFD ECO in my case), and doesn;t happen with Jbridge. If you don't use any 32-bit sysnths, you can forget about it. I just try to run everything with JBridge
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bitflipper
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Re:To bounce fast, or REAL TIME!?
2011/03/19 20:21:56
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I don't think there's a practical upper limit for BounceBufSizeMsec. The only downside to making it bigger is you're using more RAM, which could be an issue on a 32-bit system.
There's also the PumpDataMsec variable, which corresponds to the "Prepare Using N Millisecond Buffers" under the global MIDI options. Having this too small can stop MIDI notes from playing if you have a high-latency plugins such as PerfectSpace. I've seen 700ms proposed as a recommended value (the default is 500ms).
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PopStarWannabe
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Re:To bounce fast, or REAL TIME!?
2011/09/24 08:38:02
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If one has a powerful PC (like Core I7) is there still any point in bouncing at all??? With such a computer, one could easily keep the project completely in Real Time (soft synths, plug-ins, everything) until the final mix. Why bother to bounce in the meantime anymore?
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