To bus or not to bus? And where are the FX?

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paulf707
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2017/03/16 19:14:00 (permalink)

To bus or not to bus? And where are the FX?


I've always run my drums to a separate bus so I can adjust the overall drum kit volume. I also add 'reverb' sends to instrument channels and then add reverb to that bus, to provide a consistent reverb patch for all instruments. I'm not sure if this is the 'best' way to do this, but to my ears I find it easier to 'mix' all the instruments together using a single reverb - I vary the amount of reverb for each channel / instrument (to provide varying 'depth').
On my latest (fairly complex) project I bussed other instruments into groups (keyboards, guitars, basses, brass, strings etc). I thought this would be useful to adjust overall levels.
However, I found (in the end) I rarely used these. I did go to use them for muting groups of instruments (something that I do find useful when mixing) - but this then brings up issues with the reverb.
Muting the instrument busses does not mute the reverb sends for the individual channels within the bus. So I can still hear the instruments' reverb sends. I don't want to mute the reverb bus (because I want to hear the reverb on the channels/buses I am listening to).
What do you guys do? Is there a different way to use busses/fx etc that would allow me to easily adjust volumes for groups of instruments (and mute them)?

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#1

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    ralf
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    Re: To bus or not to bus? And where are the FX? 2017/03/17 09:38:58 (permalink)
    With track folders, you can also mute several tracks together. Because this mutes the tracks directly, it will also mute any effect sends.
    #2
    paulf707
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    Re: To bus or not to bus? And where are the FX? 2017/03/18 06:47:55 (permalink)
    Thanks Ralf, I hadn't thought of using folders in that way - sounds like a great option.
     
    Thanks!

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    #3
    tenfoot
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    Re: To bus or not to bus? And where are the FX? 2017/03/18 07:21:44 (permalink)
    You may also want to take a look at aux tracks and patch points paulf, both as submixes and fx tracks. If you are still on X3 as your sig states you could download the demo of platinum and give these little beauties a try:)

    Bruce.
     
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    chuckebaby
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    Re: To bus or not to bus? And where are the FX? 2017/03/18 13:44:36 (permalink)
    If you are putting reverb on everything in your mix (all tracks) you might want to rethink your approach.
    Back in the early years (1980's) when I first started mixing my own material I used a lot of delay and reverb on everything. A friend of mine pointed it out and I brushed it off, it wasn't until a well respected engineer listened to it and said, what H are you doing man ? I listened to him and realized something very critical.
     
    When use reverb, even a slight touch on everything, you limit your mixes to introducing reverb for what's its really meant for... Adding flavor to something that needs to be drawn to the listeners attention.
    Sure it is a great tool for setting atmospheres and ambience but when we use it (even sparingly) on everything it gives a drowning effect which limits us from using it in small portions to achieve a better result.
     
    I often use reverb in a buss and use a send to Automate that send level (to a variation / from dry wet).
    Automation is your best friend when using FX like reverb and delay. Every song is different, some songs will require a delay or a reverb to befriend throughout the whole song. But more often than not these should be used sparingly.
    You will be completely amazed at how much cleaner and clearer your mixes sound.
     
    I sub group all my instruments in to groups (Drums, Guitars, Hot Guitars, Acoustic Guitars, Bass Guitars, exc).
    This gives not only gives control in the mix down process to solo/mute while doing detail work but also allows buss compression to individual groups. I use the Waves SSL bus compressor on every bus to glue those buses together.
    See for me I have always had more success gluing individual buss groups Vs. trying to glue a whole mix. that's when you begin to lose dynamics and the mastering engineer has no room to work. If your just recreational Joe in his basement than this isn't really a problem but if you want professional sounding results than every aspect must be looked at.

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    #5
    Steve_Karl
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    Re: To bus or not to bus? And where are the FX? 2017/03/18 15:29:15 (permalink)
    chuckebaby
    When use reverb, even a slight touch on everything, you limit your mixes to introducing reverb for what's its really meant for... Adding flavor to something that needs to be drawn to the listeners attention.

     
    I see the first "what it's really meant for" as creating an environment ... defining a *space*.
    Often enough this is just early reflections and then a less than a 1 second duration on the reverb which is separate from the ER.

    There are times I've got 2 reverbs on just the drums and 2 or more others for other things.
    Drums - when 2 - there is always one that is very short and just to put them in their own space.
    The second will be longer for snare and toms and not always on all of the time.

    Then a different one or 2 for guitars and maybe the same for keyboards.

    So, one global, for the whole mix that is short and very subtle doesn't eliminate the possibility of using others for color.

    To the OP
    my FX are always on a separate bus.

    Steve Karl
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    #6
    Cactus Music
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    Re: To bus or not to bus? And where are the FX? 2017/03/18 16:17:53 (permalink)
    I would re think the way you are used to working and try some of the mentioned approaches. There is a few options now for signal path and as long as you can keep a clear understanding of what's going on you can have it your way. 
     
    It is easy to get tangled up because of the options. 
     
    I myself still work the same way I always did from the day's of a console and outboard gear. For me this works mostly because I never get lost and retain full control over my mix. One thing I do avoid is overuse of busses. Example, in the case of VST drums, why have a drum bus when the GUI for the drums has a mixer and a master volume, what purpose would a second fader serve. 
     
    I too add a global reverb and delay buss that will be fed with 2 aux sends from vocals, guitars and keyboards. Once again a throwback to outboard gear. I look at the track efxs bins as "inserts" for dynamics, EQ and certain "in line" effects like guitar delay or chorus.
    I can certainly see using busses if your project has a zillion tracks but a basic recording of a rock band should not require the overkill. 

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    #7
    Steve_Karl
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    Re: To bus or not to bus? And where are the FX? 2017/03/18 16:27:28 (permalink)
    Cactus Music
     why have a drum bus when the GUI for the drums has a mixer and a master volume, what purpose would a second fader serve. 

    A few reasons come to mind.
    Immediate and much more precise control and also the ability to use automation.
    Also being able to use my own choice for compression and FX and have much more control over both.
    For me that would also be the reason to output each individual drum to it's own audio track if possible.
    I've not yet seen a GUI in any of the drum programs that is as easy and quick to manipulate as an audio channel or a bus in Sonar.

    Steve Karl
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    #8
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