Took my 1st real swing at micing an acoustic kit tonight ... learned alot!

Another member of my band lent me his drum mics so I could try em out. I set them up how he used to use them for live use
A beyer kick mic
a Shure pg56 on the snare
Sennhieser e904's on the toms
a 57 on the hats (which I thought was wierd to start with.... but I tried it anyway)
and beyerdynamics tgx 5 clip on type mics under each crash/ride
 
As for the drum micing I did learn a bunch tonight.... mostly about what I do like about the mics and what I don't.
firstly I couldn't get enough sizzle from the Beyer tgx5 cymbal mics and they seemed really mid heavy without much highs... I did some research on them and the frequency response on them is from 40 hz- to
only 12 khz where the majority of a cymbals sound signature is from like 6khz up through 20 khz (unless I am wrong there) so they aren't really capturing enough highs. They might work fine life for reinforcing the sound in a small to medium club but not the best for cymbals on recordings.

 
I like sennheiser e904 the tom mics alot, though I may for shizz and giggles try the Sennheisers on the toms just to see what they get since they are also designed for that too.


 
On the snare I am not sure I like the pg56 yet. I couldn't get much snap out of it and was getting alot of the snares ring and overtones.


 
I may try the 57 on the snare and a pencil condensor (the one I got with the ARC system!) on the hats, my 2 big condensors (vocal mics) as overheads for the cymbals and see what that gets me.
 

As for the kick mic, I put it inside, up about an inch from the beater head like he told me he liked to do and was getting a really clicky sound without much depth, I then brough it into the drum a bit more and it got better. I am going to keep messing around over the next week or so and learn all I can.   Pretty cool stuff and I love the challenge.
 
I can tell you because I took a track I play drums on that we have already finished (using my V kit and ez drummer) muted the Ez drummer tracks and recorded along with everything else that it is not freaking easy to overdub the drum tracks! mybe it would have been easier to leave the existing tracks in to play along with....?  
Any advice on any of this is cool guys!   

Just getting it myself Chuck. Lots of helpful stuff on youtube as well.  What Ive found so far:

Overheads- Apprx 1 1/2' up off the cymbals Pointed toward sides of the cymbals to keep from getting a swooshing/in & out sound. Less up and down motion toward the mics when pointed to the sides.

Snare-Id use the 57 at a 45 degree angle just over the outer edge pointed toward the center of the skin apprx 2 inches off the rim. Make sure it is not pointing toward any other toms, cymbals, etc.. that might reflect bleed directly back up into mic. Also if available, Id place one directly under the snare pointed straight up at the center. (Same with the toms minus lower mic)

Ive found it interesting micing the kick with a close mic inside pointed directly at the beater about an inch away from the skin and a far mic on the outer skin. One cathes the attack and lows and the other gets the boom-I guess.  Cover the end of the kick with a heavy blanket. Works great blended together.

Chuck, my hat is off to you.

I'm wondering if, perchance, I'll ever get a valid percussive set-up some day ... as I spend more time on percussives then anything else.

Its the 'kick' and 'snare' world that consumes me most.  So I'll lurk as this thread progresses.

At some point you may decide that mics have more in common than they don't.

This may lead you to scrutinize the sound coming off the kit to make sure it sounds like what you want the recording to sound like.

Setting up a snare so that it sounds just right is a really big deal. The drummer usually has one impression of what it sounds like while everyone else hears it from afar.

If you want sizzle from the cymbals you'll want to listen to the cymbals very closely and check out what they sound like. The sound you hear from 10 feet away is totally different from the sound you hear from a 12" away and it is absolutley totally different from the sound you hear 2 " away.

The closer you get to the cymbals the deeper and darker they will sound.

If you get too close you may hear an endless deep bodied drone tone that almost sounds like feedback is about to swell. That's too close. :-) Unless the cymbal is labeled "dark ride" or something like that. :-)



Have fun!


best regards,
mike

The kit, player, and room all combine to create the sound. Take care of those three sources first. Then you go about recording it. If the first three have any problems, that makes the recording all the more difficult. If it doesn't sound good to you live, it certainly won't sound good on the recording.

+1, Bats.

The same kit can sound very different under another drummer's sticks.  It may be in the way one attacks the snare, plays those grace notes within the groove, or nails the cymbals.  Some drummers, you want to get in really tight on each drum head, taped down heads to minimize ring, in a dead environment.  With others, open up the room, use close mics for kick and snare, and overheads for toms and cymbals, and go for that "garage" sound. 

Tuning is critical.  I've seen kits that sounded dull and lifeless sound amazing when tuned up and played right.  I once had a snare drum pulled from a garbage can that sounded incredible once I put new heads on it and tuned it.

old Mickey Mouse tune "Here He Comes To Save The Day" 

uh, i think that was Mighty Mouse.

Cool tips and insights, All are extreamly appreiciated guys!

A little update on my progress....

beyer kick mic <--- Absolutely hate this mic.... Need something else/better 
a Shure pg56 on the snare <---- blows as a snare mic, works better as a kick mic than the above though... went back to a 57 here.
Sennhieser e904's on the toms <-- they work really well & I like em'!
a 57 on the hats (which I thought was wierd to start with.... but I tried it anyway) <-- Actually works ok, though I want to get some pencil condensors for this and maybe for the overheads in the near future.
and beyerdynamics tgx 5 clip on type mics under each crash/ride <--- Useless as they don't capture the highs very well.   My LD condensors are much better for this.

I could make a good recording with these as set up here with exception of the kick mic.... I gotta find something better here without breaking the bank.  Any ideas for that fellas?   I have tried multiple different mics and every position I can think of, I either get click click click, or THOOOOM THOOOM THOOOM  I can't get that happy medium balance I want.

The kick has got a front head on it with a sound hole for micing/port.  One pillow inside to muffle and sounds pretty good to the ear.  It's just recording like crap.  Last night I finally got one of my band members to come over and play the kit while I moved mic'sand played with levels (I had been trying to do this all by myself) and I was able to get it sounding better but it's still not great.

Check the AKG D1Just got mine and all Im seeing on research, I dont think I went wrong. It was either that or a Beta52A. They say the D112 needs very little EQing compared to anything else out there. Havent checked that out yet and cant wait to see how it actually goes.  You can find 'em on eBAY for about $120 new from a decent USA place just have to search for them. I believe they are about $200 new

For kick, I've found that a Studio Projects C1 sounds terrific on many kits. Don't be afraid to go outside the realm of dynamic mics, many modern condensers can handle the sound levels and that high frequency bump that lots of cheap Chinese mics have sounds great on kicks.

batsbrew

old Mickey Mouse tune "Here He Comes To Save The Day" 

uh, i think that was Mighty Mouse.

 Nice!!!

Thanks for the input guys.  I've got the kit tuned up pretty nicely,  I am well aware of the importance of that.
Mike I appreciate the tip!

Sidroe-  Is this the mic you are talking about?  The Audio technica pro25?
http://www.instrumentpro.com/P-AUDPRO25  I can't find anything on a Akg pro 25?