twaddle
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Touching the future
Clever subject header huh? Last night I watched a video about sonar X2's touch screen features and windows 8. To my mind it's still an expensive technology that's very much in it's infancy but it is very interesting none the less and prices are falling and will continue to do so. I had serious reservations about using touch screen on a desktop simply because of RSI and the aching arms and the general uncomfortableness (why isn't that a proper word ?) of it all. I was reading the BFD3 feature request list on the BFD2 forum and thought, I wonder who would be the first to bring out a touch screen version of their drum VSTi. Lots of people use drum pads and with multi-angle monitors and the continual improvement of both the screens and software I can see drum pads going in the bin and people tapping out their grooves on their monitors a few years from now. Remember from whom you heard if first. Maybe I should get my self down to the patent office I found a really good and unbiased review from a fellow cynic like myself who seems to have been converted (as have I) to the potential of touch technology or "touchtech" as I like to call it. Did I just make another new word ? Cakewalk aren't the only ones to have seen the potential either, they're all at it Here's them videos for you Touch Screen & Music Production Part 1 Touch Screen & Music Production Part 2 Steve
post edited by twaddle - 2013/07/05 05:46:05
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jb101
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Re: Touching the future
2013/07/05 06:24:55
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How do touch screens handle velocity? I know the iPad uses its internal accelerometer, but it doesn't seem very smooth/accurate to me. This would preclude its use as a drum trigger for me. I too am a cynic, but look forward to seeing it develop. Oh, and is "discomfort" a proper word for it?
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twaddle
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Re: Touching the future
2013/07/05 06:42:45
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Yes that did also cross my mind and there in could be a major problem as it would surely be a hardware requirement that the screen would need to be made velocity sensitive and if they could do that I guess that could cost a lot more than your average touch screen. I don't use a drum pad but I think a lot of people use them more as a sketch pad to quickly tap out a pattern and then edit the velocities later so it could still have some use. Discomfort did cross my mind but I felt uncomfortableness had a more plural and general feel to it. Steve
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jb101
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Re: Touching the future
2013/07/05 09:02:42
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I'd go with uncomfortableness every time. I'm pretty sure it's a word I've used before, so if we both have, it must be a real word. I agree that if people use finger drumming, then velocity may be a bit hit and miss anyway. I'm sure if I used the pads on my A-300 Pro I wouldn't get that great a result either. I use my V drums, normally (and sometimes not normally, too). The iPad certainly doesn't seem to work well (velocity wise), for me, but I've not used it a lot. I also don't know if a large, fixed touch screen could use the same approach (accelerometer), but I guess we don't know what's around the corner. Perhaps we'll be air drumming.. I use the iPad to remotely control Sonar, if I'm recording away from my DAW, somewhere else in the studio, using AC-7 Core HD. It is pretty handy, but between you and me, I used to just take my wireless keyboard and use keyboard shortcuts. I just like moving the touch faders - I feel like Mr Sulu.. edited for spelling
post edited by jb101 - 2013/07/05 10:01:27
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hellogoodbye
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Re: Touching the future
2013/07/05 09:45:59
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jb101 I use the iPad to remotely control Sonar, if I'm recording away from my DAW, somewhere else in the studio, using AC-7 Coe HD.
V-Control Pro looks even nicer. Costs a bit more though. But you get direct access to really everything on your DAW in what seems to me a far easier way. http://www.youtube.com/embed/R5Vcgf3-jvs
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DeeringAmps
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Re: Touching the future
2013/07/05 09:51:20
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Thanks for the link Steve; pretty cool... My guess; Cake is working frantically to fully implement "touch" into Sonar. Tom
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twaddle
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Re: Touching the future
2013/07/05 09:54:37
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hellogoodbye
jb101 I use the iPad to remotely control Sonar, if I'm recording away from my DAW, somewhere else in the studio, using AC-7 Coe HD.
V-Control Pro looks even nicer. Costs a bit more though. But you get direct access to really everything on your DAW in what seems to me a far easier way. http://www.youtube.com/embed/R5Vcgf3-jvs
Looks fantastic but not velocity sensitive which was the point of my post. Steve
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twaddle
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Re: Touching the future
2013/07/05 10:15:36
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Having given it some more thought I'm not sure that making a velocity sensitive touch screen monitor would be quite such a big ask. When I was at Goldsmiths in London about 7 years ago now there was a tutor there who was building his own drum kits from trigger pads that could be bought very cheaply. I don't know whether or not they were velocity sensitive but they were very cheap and he was suggesting we did the same if working with groups of children. My point is, I don't think the technology behind your average drum pad is too expensive and if it can be adapted to integrate with a tough screen monitor then Bob's your uncle  Think Laurie Anderson's Drum Suit If velocity sensitive triggers could be implemented behind a touch screen monitor then perhaps they could be switched it on and off for normal everyday use and it needn't be too expensive. I'm no expert on these things but as they say, "where there's a will there's a way" Steve
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gswitz
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Re: Touching the future
2013/07/05 12:46:59
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I'm totally picturing my kid snapping sticks hard against the monitor... jamming away with the monitor flat... until... CRACK :-) I'll need a touch screen with tempered glass! And we'll have to mic the monitor to get that natural sound of sticks on glass to mix in with the synth!
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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lawp
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Re: Touching the future
2013/07/05 12:57:31
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At a Microsoft session back in Feb, I asked about this (velocity on touch) and could only get a "working on it" answer
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Goddard
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Re: Touching the future
2013/07/05 13:10:21
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joeb1cannoli
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Re: Touching the future
2013/07/05 13:29:11
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What if the pads were more like strips, and where you touched on the strip effected the velocity. Kind of like the preview strip that's in BFD2. Morphwiz is a synth being developed by Jordan Rudess with a touchscreen keyboard that allows you to control modulation by sliding your finger up and down the key. I'm thinking that you could have drum pads that control the velocity in the same way.
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Guitarpima
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Re: Touching the future
2013/07/05 18:11:50
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Did anyone catch the Juce reference. Maybe Sonar will eventually port to Apple if they use that platform since using it made touch easier.
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John
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Re: Touching the future
2013/07/05 18:42:34
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V Control is an app for an ipad where touch IS the program on the screen. With a touch screen the need or even the desirability for an app to control Sonar vanishes. My view is the hardware we use to input data (MIDI) and control Sonar wont be replaced by touch only enhanced by it.
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bapu
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Re: Touching the future
2013/07/05 21:08:47
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John V Control is an app for an ipad where touch IS the program on the screen. With a touch screen the need or even the desirability for an app to control Sonar vanishes. My view is the hardware we use to input data (MIDI) and control Sonar wont be replaced by touch only enhanced by it.
Well Done John
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John
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Re: Touching the future
2013/07/05 21:36:13
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I don't know what it wrong with you Edward but you're posting the same thing after any post I make is harassment and is in violation of the TOS. Please stop.
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WallyG
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Re: Touching the future
2013/07/05 22:19:32
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gswitz I'm totally picturing my kid snapping sticks hard against the monitor... jamming away with the monitor flat... until... CRACK :-) I'll need a touch screen with tempered glass! And we'll have to mic the monitor to get that natural sound of sticks on glass to mix in with the synth!
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
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twaddle
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Re: Touching the future
2013/07/06 05:07:27
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JohnMy view is the hardware we use to input data (MIDI) and control Sonar wont be replaced by touch only enhanced by it.
Absolutely John, I think that's partly why a lot of people are very cynical about windows 8 and the whole touch screen thing as they don't see it as being practical and it's more of a toy for kids. But as people have suggested here, velocity sensitive touch screens are something microsoft (and I'm sure lots of other companies) are working on so it wasn't just a whimsical fantasy on my part  I noticed in the two videos I posted someone was playing a piano/keyboard and was wandering if it was a velocity sensitive screen. Surely it would still use midi anyway ? The tapping on the touch screen would send midi data to what ever software was being used ? The big question for me would be, how sensitive can they be made ? What I mean is some those platinum sample kits that I have for BFD2 have up to 256 velocity layers, I'd be interested to hear from owners of drum pads how many velocity layers they have. Or does it not work that way ? Steve
post edited by twaddle - 2013/07/24 03:39:51
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lawp
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Re: Touching the future
2013/07/06 10:41:56
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Some vst instruments' gui keyboards change velocity depending on whereabouts on the key you click, so maybe it'll be a combo touch/software thing? Also, isn't midi velocity just 0-127 range? My padkontrol is...
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twaddle
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Re: Touching the future
2013/07/24 03:49:21
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I'm totally picturing my kid snapping sticks hard against the monitor... jamming away with the monitor flat... until... CRACK :-) I'll need a touch screen with tempered glass! Well it's primitive and it's 6 years old but for the purpose of laying down a quick groove then something like this might be all we'd need. As far as I know finger drum pads and keyboards don't do much more than what this guy is doing and on a larger screen if the drum pads could be zonally sensitive so that they could play different articulations (Tricky for hi-hats) it could be quite useful. Obviously a keyboard would give you the full range of articulations and chokes too but I find them awkward to play. Virtual Drums Pocket PC Steve
post edited by twaddle - 2013/07/24 05:40:13
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jeekem
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Re: Touching the future
2013/09/29 21:59:01
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I'm not seeing (in my minds' eye) any benefit to doing the drum part on screen. I think an MPD or a regular computer keyboard even would be so much cheaper and reliable to use. I'm not sure sure at all about the level of noncomfortablicityness. I've played with using my iPhone 4, using AC-7 Core HD using my iPhone for remote controlling of my DAW but it's a pain.. I've thought about grabbing an iPad to use for that but I could probably set up my Rocktron Midimate and have it work much more conveniently. It's a very cool app though.
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